U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Africa
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 05-17-2013, 09:06 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,663 posts, read 74,455,078 times
Reputation: 36100

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by caribdoll View Post
More like you have made mine, but continue to play ignorant...
No, he made a good point. You're the one who objects to people defining a part of the world according to directionality (south of the Sahara), and then you classify the culprits as being from "the West", lumping all people with a pernicious "Western" mentality according to a compass point on the planet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by caribdoll View Post
Some of you Africans have become so Americanized/Westernized . . .
How about "Some of you Africans have become so Sub-Saharanized . . ."?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joy74 View Post
Seems like something Europeans made up to cause division.

Do you people think the Europeans "made up" the Sahara Desert, or the Atlantic Ocean, or the Ural Mountains, to "cause division"?

Last edited by jtur88; 05-17-2013 at 09:20 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-17-2013, 12:56 PM
 
8,226 posts, read 10,828,376 times
Reputation: 7623
If an African has no problem with the term,why do people from other continents have a problem with it?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-17-2013, 03:56 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,663 posts, read 74,455,078 times
Reputation: 36100
Look at the very first line on the Government of Ghana's Official Website:

SUMMARY OF GHANA AT A GLANCE

SUMMARY OF GHANA AT A GLANCE

• GHANA IS A SUB-SAHARAN AFRICAN COUNTRY

If you want this fixed, take it up with Mr. Mahama Ayariga, the Minister of Information in Accra, not here in this thread.

Last edited by jtur88; 05-17-2013 at 04:04 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-18-2013, 05:42 PM
 
Location: Maryland
18,627 posts, read 16,476,991 times
Reputation: 6351
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Look at the very first line on the Government of Ghana's Official Website:

SUMMARY OF GHANA AT A GLANCE

SUMMARY OF GHANA AT A GLANCE

GHANA IS A SUB-SAHARAN AFRICAN COUNTRY

If you want this fixed, take it up with Mr. Mahama Ayariga, the Minister of Information in Accra, not here in this thread.
Thank you. I guess caribdoll would say he has just been brainwashed by evil Europeans.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-19-2013, 09:29 AM
 
Location: Caribbean
7,792 posts, read 2,485,874 times
Reputation: 2787
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwardA View Post
What is Western about sub-Sahara? Being sub or South of the Sahara is a geographic distinction, an objective description. Yet you assign something objective to Westerners. You've just made my point but you probably don't realize it.
Again playing ignorant. It is not only used a geographic, objective description. Stop acting oblivious.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-19-2013, 09:33 AM
 
Location: Caribbean
7,792 posts, read 2,485,874 times
Reputation: 2787
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
No, he made a good point. You're the one who objects to people defining a part of the world according to directionality (south of the Sahara), and then you classify the culprits as being from "the West", lumping all people with a pernicious "Western" mentality according to a compass point on the planet.

How about "Some of you Africans have become so Sub-Saharanized . . ."?


Do you people think the Europeans "made up" the Sahara Desert, or the Atlantic Ocean, or the Ural Mountains, to "cause division"?
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwardA View Post
Thank you. I guess caribdoll would say he has just been brainwashed by evil Europeans.
Some of you act so childishly and as though you are oblivious to reality. LOL@brainwashed by evil Europeans...dramatic. Anyway, believe whatever you wish. *shrug*
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-19-2013, 10:17 AM
 
Location: Vineland, NJ
8,485 posts, read 10,501,777 times
Reputation: 5401
Quote:
Originally Posted by caribdoll View Post
Some of you act so childishly and as though you are oblivious to reality. LOL@brainwashed by evil Europeans...dramatic. Anyway, believe whatever you wish. *shrug*
What's so funny about the whole thing is that he is using a statement from a summary of a country's website as a way to justify the term "Sub-Saharan Africa" over other geographic definitions. My response to that would be "so what!" Does that statement on the piece of paper represent how all the people of Ghana feel about that term, let alone Africa itself? Does that mean that all the people of Ghana identify their area first and foremost as Sub-Saharan? Seems rather silly to put all of one's stocks into a statement on a piece of paper and say that it represents all the peoples viewpoints on that issue.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-19-2013, 05:29 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,663 posts, read 74,455,078 times
Reputation: 36100
So, now the response to all argument is "You're being childish and silly" to use an expression that is unanimously and exclusively used by everybody of all races who has a PhD in a field related to economic or social geography or a top level post in an organization that works in such fields or writes peer-reviewed articles and journals about such fields of study.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-21-2013, 11:26 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
12,489 posts, read 11,994,834 times
Reputation: 10581
Honestly, this is no different from using geographic qualifiers on Asia. A West Asian (Syrian) is not much like a South Asian (Bangladeshi) who in turn isn't much like a Southeast Asian or an East Asian.

Admittedly, there are huge genetic/cultural divisions within Africa. Khoisan and Pygmies are distinct genetic races which split off from all other modern humans before the other races diverged. It's arguable that West and East Africans are different races as well, with East Africans closer related to the common ancestor of all Non-(Sub-Saharan) Africans. Sub-Saharan Africa also has people who have substantial (sometimes majority) Asian ancestry in Madagascar.

But when it comes down to it, the Sahara was a huge geographic barrier. There are examples of mixed-groups like the Tuareg, Mozabites, and Fulani which show fairly old mixing, but up until the Islamic slave trade, outside of Ethiopia there was relatively little cultural and population exchange.

Regardless, continents are artificial terms, and mean nothing. If you're discussing something like human genetics, talking about Sub-Saharan Africa makes sense. But in other places (like discussing economic development) I don't think the caveat is needed.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-21-2013, 08:30 PM
 
5,767 posts, read 10,320,968 times
Reputation: 3813
You really have to go back to ancient Greek and Roman times. Back then, the northern part of the African continent was well-known, and in some cases colonized. There were also trading posts down to the horn of Africa/present-day Somalia, and perhaps down to Zanzibar island off the coast of Tanzania.

But below the deserts or past a certain point on the Nile, Africa was simply unknown to European cartographers. People knew that the landmass kept on going, but it hadn't been charted in any systematic way that could be represented on maps. There was no reason for the ancients to believe that the Mediterranean African coast and the lands far to the south were in any way the same kind of "thing," and so, concept of a "sub"-Saharan region was a natural extension of that.

Even the Arabs had a similar way of thinking about the continent, though their "sub-Saharan Africa" was somewhat more lopsided due to their trade routes down the coast of East Africa to modern-day Mozambique.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Africa
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top