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Old 06-06-2013, 12:08 AM
 
Location: Oroville, California
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South Africa is a bit different than most third world countries. It has an infrastructure, manufacturing base and free market economy that is very close to that of a developed country, only with great swaths of very poor people living in slums. Its more like a Brazilian economic and social model than the typical Sub-Saharan African ones.

 
Old 06-06-2013, 09:27 AM
 
Location: Maryland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timing2012 View Post
I am pretty sure it is Third World IF China is still considered third world.
While most South African Blacks live in 3rd world conditions the country as a whole is not considered third world. China has a lower per capita income than South Africa.

I'm sure though if the ANC continues as they are South Africa economic output will contract or not generate enough income to account for population growth.
 
Old 06-08-2013, 01:08 PM
 
Location: West Coast
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South Africa is a part of the BRICS nations, emerging nations that are economically relevant and viable. Brazil, Russia, India, China, South Africa.
 
Old 06-12-2013, 07:40 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
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Probably not much different from life for a wealthy person in Latin America or India or anywhere else in countries that have a high incidence of poverty. In South America, houses are very secure, with bars on all the windows, walls around the house topped with broken glass bottles, domestic help doubling as security guards, large dogs present.

I knew people in Bogota, on a residential street, whose house was designed to park the car in the living room, behind a curtain.
 
Old 06-14-2013, 04:49 PM
 
Location: In the heights
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timing2012 View Post
These two don't really counts, as they are VERY SMALL, tourists attractions that keep them alive, and closely tied to USA.

Are there any majority black countries the size and economy of Japan, Nederlands, or even Ireland?
You can look at countries by their Human Development Indices here. The highest rated majority black country is Barbados with a really good showing and listed within the top bracket (out of four brackets). However, Barbados has a population of about 270,000. The Seychelles also makes that bracket but it's an even smaller country. There are several more majority black small countries listed in the High Development group with the largest being Jamaica (about 3 million people). There are some large countries that appear in the Medium development group though including South Africa.
 
Old 06-14-2013, 04:54 PM
 
Location: In the heights
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timing2012 View Post
I am pretty sure it is Third World IF China is still considered third world.
The original coinage of first and third world country also included a second world category which China is technically in. I think there should probably be a finer granularity to describing development.
 
Old 06-14-2013, 05:20 PM
 
Location: Wylie, Texas
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I think the confusion as to whether SA is first or third world comes from the peculiar development the country went through. From the beginnings of the country (back in 1648 IIRC) till 1994, the vast majority of the country's resources were focused on one group and one group only; whites. That means whites got the best land for farming (South Africa had been a major producer of wine, beef, wool, various fruits, and other food products) the best equipped schools (SA at one point had some of the finest medical schools in the world, putting together all types of firsts in surgery for example), best funded sports teams (SA has historically had VERY strong sports teams; in rugby union, cricket, golf, tennis etc)...

All these accomplishments are very worthwhile, espcecially for an "African" country, but what did those accomplishments all have in common? Whites only were given access and the opportunity to participate in any of this. Blacks were herded into what was called "Bantustans" so called independent countries located on the crappiest land available, so farming wasnt an option. Black schools were so bad that the worst ghetto schools in the US would look like Harvard in comparison. Blacks were not allowed to compete on the same teams as whites.

So an outsider coming to the "white" south africa would see world class homes, sports, lifestyles and yes, this would be first world. But that was reserved for the chosen few. For everyone else, a horrible third world lifestyle is what they had. It's interesting that White South Africans complain about the crime. Black South Africans will tell you that the high levels of violence have been present in the black townships for a very long time, but the white controlled police did nothing to stop it. Whites figured that if blacks are too busy robbing/killing each other then they wouldnt care as much about the fact of aparthied and other injustices they were dealth...now whites are no longer protected by an apartheid goverment, now they have to deal with the monsters that they nurtured...how the chickens have come home to roost.
 
Old 06-15-2013, 08:02 PM
 
Location: Maryland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biafra4life View Post
I think the confusion as to whether SA is first or third world comes from the peculiar development the country went through. From the beginnings of the country (back in 1648 IIRC) till 1994, the vast majority of the country's resources were focused on one group and one group only; whites. That means whites got the best land for farming (South Africa had been a major producer of wine, beef, wool, various fruits, and other food products) the best equipped schools (SA at one point had some of the finest medical schools in the world, putting together all types of firsts in surgery for example), best funded sports teams (SA has historically had VERY strong sports teams; in rugby union, cricket, golf, tennis etc)...

All these accomplishments are very worthwhile, espcecially for an "African" country, but what did those accomplishments all have in common? Whites only were given access and the opportunity to participate in any of this. Blacks were herded into what was called "Bantustans" so called independent countries located on the crappiest land available, so farming wasnt an option. Black schools were so bad that the worst ghetto schools in the US would look like Harvard in comparison. Blacks were not allowed to compete on the same teams as whites.

So an outsider coming to the "white" south africa would see world class homes, sports, lifestyles and yes, this would be first world. But that was reserved for the chosen few. For everyone else, a horrible third world lifestyle is what they had. It's interesting that White South Africans complain about the crime. Black South Africans will tell you that the high levels of violence have been present in the black townships for a very long time, but the white controlled police did nothing to stop it. Whites figured that if blacks are too busy robbing/killing each other then they wouldnt care as much about the fact of aparthied and other injustices they were dealth...now whites are no longer protected by an apartheid goverment, now they have to deal with the monsters that they nurtured...how the chickens have come home to roost.
This statement implies that someone gave Whites these things. These things were created, true often ruthlessly but created nonetheless. Also development in South Africa is more nuanced then some generic term Whites. There were serious conflicts because the founding White Settlers of Dutch origin and later British colonizers culminating in the Boer War where Brits interred Afrikaners in the first concentration camps.
 
Old 06-16-2013, 05:51 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timing2012 View Post
Wasn't it, at some point in time, the only majority black country that has the potential to become a non-third world country?
I agree with the previous poster.

According to the UN, there is now one predominately black nation that is considered a developed nation. That nation is Barbados and it has a higher quality of life than Poland, Portugal, Argentina, Chile and most European nations (Barbados is 93% Black). It has the 3rd highest quality of life in the entire western hemisphere right behind the US and Canada. The economy of Barbados is not just based on tourism but also has a banking sector and other things.

Here is the official source: Indices & Data | Human Development Reports (HDR) | United Nations Development Programme (UNDP)

But yes, the population of Barbados is smaller compared to most nations BUT this doesn't give it an advantage. A smaller population makes it harder to build an influential powerhouse economy and less people equals less innovation.

Last edited by Guidance100; 06-16-2013 at 06:06 PM..
 
Old 06-17-2013, 09:36 AM
 
Location: Wylie, Texas
1,690 posts, read 2,474,119 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guidance100 View Post
I agree with the previous poster.

According to the UN, there is now one predominately black nation that is considered a developed nation. That nation is Barbados and it has a higher quality of life than Poland, Portugal, Argentina, Chile and most European nations (Barbados is 93% Black). It has the 3rd highest quality of life in the entire western hemisphere right behind the US and Canada. The economy of Barbados is not just based on tourism but also has a banking sector and other things.

Here is the official source: Indices & Data | Human Development Reports (HDR) | United Nations Development Programme (UNDP)

But yes, the population of Barbados is smaller compared to most nations BUT this doesn't give it an advantage. A smaller population makes it harder to build an influential powerhouse economy and less people equals less innovation.

I dont know...I personally tend to discount all those "wealthy" small Caribbean islands. Yes they tend to have high incomes, but those incomes are artificially inflated by the big money banking/tourism sectors, none of whom are actually based on those islands, but rather are branches of the big American/European banks/tourism companies. The monies earned are repatriated back to their home headquarters in Europe/America, and very little of that money actually ends up with the local black population. Take Barbados for example. I know people actually FROM there, and I can assure you that while they are certainly not starving like people in Haiti, it's not Switzerland either, not by a long shot.
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