U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Africa
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 06-21-2013, 10:49 AM
 
6,552 posts, read 9,067,154 times
Reputation: 2832

Advertisements

There seems to be some issues between author Dambisa Moyo and Bill Gates over the effectivness of aid to Africa that you can read about in this link.

Dambisa Moyo Responds To Bill Gates’ Personal Attacks - Ventures Africa




I wanted to highlight the comments of one of the readers who commented. I thought this person made some interesting observations.


"Its a shame that this has become Bill Gates vs Dambisa Moyo – because in
my opinion they are both right. She unfortunately simplified and
sensationalised her arguments for her book Dead Aid to make it a
best seller (in the developed world….). She was trying to make her
name, as despite her professional successes at Goldman Sachs, where she
wrote some great and more balanced research which I read before she was
famous, she was not a household name. Gates, needing no publicity or
money, is tackling real aid issues in health in particular and I admire him
for it. He is dealing with the hardest cases that the private sector
probably can’t tackle nor could many governments.

Moyo however is also right that much development
finance in areas that could be private sector run such as power,
transport, etc is wasted spend and leads to lazy Government behaviour in
developing countries, insulated from pressure from their citizens that
would come if taxes, tariffs or toll paid for the projects, even if its
not all blatant corruption or theft.

I have spent over 20 years living
and working in Africa and Asia, all in the private sector and mostly
financing infrastructure and energy projects. There are rare cases
such as Singapore which had a smart, honest and hard working public
sector as they developed, but they relied far less on aid money than
many in Africa. I see by far the best results in Africa today where the
private sector is allowed to lead, with intelligent regulation from the
public sector. Unfortunately most development agencies and banks still
only pay lip service to this, giving far more and cheaper finance to
public sector, gently sabotaging the growth of the private sector
because they can’t control it, and turning a blind eye to the
consequences.

Many African politicians and officials like this because apart from less pressure they can blame others when things go wrong and even if they don’t get rich on bribes they are on the cushy international travel and conference circuit, paid by development funds. Many development professionals fear for their own jobs if the private sector succeeds,others genuinely don’t believe the private sector is the right approach to infrastructure growth–they are the ultimate champagne socialists."

JB
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-21-2013, 01:47 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,663 posts, read 74,221,895 times
Reputation: 36087
No doubt she is right that there are cases where government officials are just as selfish and greedy and corrupt as the corporations that would seek to gain from a local marketplace. But the fact that she can cite a few examples is not proof that the phenomenon is widespread and can be indiscriminately blamed for every failure in Africa, without ever casting any blame on corporatism as well.

The Nestle Corporation of Switzerland was given freedom to sweep across Africa pitching their baby formula to women who would have otherwise breastfed. It turned out that the resulting infant death toll was staggering, as the formula was mixed with polluted water full of lethal pathogens. Since nobody had bothered to make any kind of private sector investment in the development of potable water sources, that being insufficiently profitable to attract the investors of private capital. . . . .
Quote:
Originally Posted by Motion View Post
gently sabotaging the growth of the private sector
because they can’t control it, and turning a blind eye to the
consequences.
Keep in mind that even in the USA, a large amount of legislative time, if not the bulk of it, and nearly all lobbying (our own form of corrupt bribery) is dedicated to regulatory controls on a profligate private sector that must be constantly controlled, rather than turning a blind eye to the consequences.

If Ms. Moyo wants to delve into anecdotal examples to make her case, Nestle is one she ought not ignore.

Last edited by jtur88; 06-21-2013 at 02:17 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-22-2013, 12:20 PM
 
6,552 posts, read 9,067,154 times
Reputation: 2832
There needs to be some reasonable conditions related to recieving aid. One of them should be a country must have a free uncensored press. Too many African countries lack press freedom. Having press freedom will allow African journalist to freely report on and monitor how aid is being used helping to expose any misue of the aid.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-22-2013, 12:58 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,663 posts, read 74,221,895 times
Reputation: 36087
Quote:
Originally Posted by Motion View Post
There needs to be some reasonable conditions related to recieving aid. One of them should be a country must have a free uncensored press. Too many African countries lack press freedom. Having press freedom will allow African journalist to freely report on and monitor how aid is being used helping to expose any misue of the aid.
Shouldn't that be up to the people who tender the aid? When you start giving aid, you can stipulate the conditions of it. When the US sends "aid" for the express purpose of bribing or propping up a petty dictator, or buying their vote in the Security Council, how is it "misuse" if he puts it in an offshore bank?

Most countries with a "censored" press, it is self-censorship. Nobody comes around from the government and looks at copy, but the editors "know what is good for them". Self-censorship is the worst form of censorship, because nobody ever challenges it.

Do you think any country is free of press censorship? Even Rush Limbaugh is censored by his advertisers, who can threaten to withdraw the only thing that is dear to the press -- money.

Besides, a free press has become an anachronism. With the internet media, anything can be published with complete immunity. Only the USA has the necessary clout to censor the media, which it is doing right now (Edward Snowden). African countries also "classify" information, they just don't have the leverage to force China to extradite journalists.

Last edited by jtur88; 06-22-2013 at 01:24 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-22-2013, 07:33 PM
 
Location: Maryland
18,620 posts, read 16,421,685 times
Reputation: 6347
Beggars generally don't grow wealthy. I think there is enough space for both views but for true progress, Moyo's views need to predominate.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-22-2013, 08:38 PM
 
6,552 posts, read 9,067,154 times
Reputation: 2832
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwardA View Post
Beggars generally don't grow wealthy. I think there is enough space for both views but for true progress, Moyo's views need to predominate.
Yeah, the thing about this aid emphasis is that it puts the donor countries in a position to dictate things in poor countries then people complain about how outsiders control Africa.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-26-2013, 01:37 PM
 
6,552 posts, read 9,067,154 times
Reputation: 2832
Quote:
Others say that the vast earnings made by many African countries from oil, gas and mining show that the focus on aid to Africa is misguided. "We should be doing a lot more to get Africa to develop itself," said Ariyo. "Take the case of my country, Nigeria. It benefited from debt relief and has huge oil resources, but Nigeria is in more debt now than it was in 2005, and that is because of corruption."

Promise of aid in Africa is one thing, but real development quite another | World news | The Guardian
I guess what's being suggested here is that aid can cause governments to become financial irresponsibe and not to reform.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-26-2013, 03:37 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,663 posts, read 74,221,895 times
Reputation: 36087
When huge amounts of the national wealth are siphoned off for the benefit of the few, that is called "Corrupt" when the few are in public office, and "Enterprising" when the few are in private corporate boardrooms. When the wealth goes to the workers, then it is called "Socialism", and is vigorously opposed, unsurprisingly, by both the corrupt and the enterprising.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-27-2013, 01:09 PM
 
Location: Milwaukee
1,999 posts, read 1,989,889 times
Reputation: 568
Thank you for introducing me to this woman, Motion. I've never heard of her. I will try to check out at least one of her books.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-28-2013, 09:55 AM
 
6,552 posts, read 9,067,154 times
Reputation: 2832
^

You can find several videos of her on youtube. Here she breaksdown the problems with aid.




Dambisa Moyo discusses Dead Aid with an MP - YouTube
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Africa
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top