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Old 07-10-2013, 12:43 PM
 
Location: Maryland
18,624 posts, read 16,433,169 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Would you say telling the truth is not a good thing, because a majority of the people in the world are wiling to lie when they have something to gain by it? Because telling the truth is not supported by science or tradition? That being thrifty is not a good thing, because the majority wastes? Being even-tempered is not supported by science or tradition, and being angry is the what most people do, and anger is an act, not an identity? And peace is not supported by science or tradition, and has no more or less merit than war?

"What Would Jesus Do" asks us to reflect on the right thing to do, not the one supported by science or tradition. The lynch mob thanks you for your support.
You describe homosexuality as a "condition". How can a condition not be supported by science? That doesn't make any sense. The West has chosen to accept or embrace homosexuality for whatever reason. Africans have not for whatever reason. I think Africans have every right to not tolerate homosexuality even though it exists.

Lots of things exist that Americans refuse to condone such as prostitution. The moral superiority act of the West is getting kind of old.

Oh btw much of Africa practices Islam so a better question is what would Jesus and Mohammad do?
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Old 07-10-2013, 01:21 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,663 posts, read 74,269,803 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwardA View Post
You describe homosexuality as a "condition". How can a condition not be supported by science? That doesn't make any sense. The West has chosen to accept or embrace homosexuality for whatever reason. Africans have not for whatever reason. I think Africans have every right to not tolerate homosexuality even though it exists.

Lots of things exist that Americans refuse to condone such as prostitution. The moral superiority act of the West is getting kind of old.

Oh btw much of Africa practices Islam so a better question is what would Jesus and Mohammad do?
Easy. A condition can be one that one imposes on himself through his own will or through misadventure. Drug addiction would be a highly simplistic example. Every drug addict's addiction is supported by science, but it is not scientific predetermination that defines the subset. Scientifically, it is not at all evident, whether sexual orientation is influenced by heredity or environment. I believe the available evidence supports the idea that people are born that way, but I haven't looked into it all that deeply.

But you are absolutely right. Africans have a right, in administering the affairs of their own sovereign nationhood, to refuse to tolerate homosexuality, just as Americans have a right to execute felons, however morally lacking that may seem to a majority of the people of the world. I have a right to object to my country's internal affairs, but not yours.

The people who are judgmental about prostitution are not necessarily the same people who are judgmental about homosexuality, and either or both might think themselves on the moral high ground.

WWMD is not a "better" question, but simply one of very many alternative questions that address a similar sentiment. It's always a bad idea to put an "and" in such a question, because they might not both do the same thing.

Another thing. Homosexuality is not illegal anywhere. Committing a homosexual act is. Willful homosexual acts are not necessarily committed by homosexuals, for example, prisoners, or sailors at sea. Conversely, many people are aware that they have homosexual desires, but have never committed a homosexual act. And many people have heterosexual desires, but for various reasons, go their whole life celibate and never commit a heterosexual act.

If two members of a religious order go their entire lives honoring their vows of chastity, and one is homosexual and the other is heterosexual, would "science" recognize any difference between them?
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Old 07-11-2013, 07:37 AM
 
Location: Maryland
18,624 posts, read 16,433,169 times
Reputation: 6348
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Easy. A condition can be one that one imposes on himself through his own will or through misadventure. Drug addiction would be a highly simplistic example. Every drug addict's addiction is supported by science, but it is not scientific predetermination that defines the subset. Scientifically, it is not at all evident, whether sexual orientation is influenced by heredity or environment. I believe the available evidence supports the idea that people are born that way, but I haven't looked into it all that deeply.

But you are absolutely right. Africans have a right, in administering the affairs of their own sovereign nationhood, to refuse to tolerate homosexuality, just as Americans have a right to execute felons, however morally lacking that may seem to a majority of the people of the world. I have a right to object to my country's internal affairs, but not yours.

The people who are judgmental about prostitution are not necessarily the same people who are judgmental about homosexuality, and either or both might think themselves on the moral high ground.

WWMD is not a "better" question, but simply one of very many alternative questions that address a similar sentiment. It's always a bad idea to put an "and" in such a question, because they might not both do the same thing.

Another thing. Homosexuality is not illegal anywhere. Committing a homosexual act is. Willful homosexual acts are not necessarily committed by homosexuals, for example, prisoners, or sailors at sea. Conversely, many people are aware that they have homosexual desires, but have never committed a homosexual act. And many people have heterosexual desires, but for various reasons, go their whole life celibate and never commit a heterosexual act.

If two members of a religious order go their entire lives honoring their vows of chastity, and one is homosexual and the other is heterosexual, would "science" recognize any difference between them?
Agreed and that's why I'm personally against gay marriage.
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Old 07-11-2013, 03:13 PM
 
Location: Milwaukee
1,999 posts, read 1,991,658 times
Reputation: 568
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Easy. A condition can be one that one imposes on himself through his own will or through misadventure. Drug addiction would be a highly simplistic example. Every drug addict's addiction is supported by science, but it is not scientific predetermination that defines the subset. Scientifically, it is not at all evident, whether sexual orientation is influenced by heredity or environment. I believe the available evidence supports the idea that people are born that way, but I haven't looked into it all that deeply.

But you are absolutely right. Africans have a right, in administering the affairs of their own sovereign nationhood, to refuse to tolerate homosexuality, just as Americans have a right to execute felons, however morally lacking that may seem to a majority of the people of the world. I have a right to object to my country's internal affairs, but not yours.

The people who are judgmental about prostitution are not necessarily the same people who are judgmental about homosexuality, and either or both might think themselves on the moral high ground.

WWMD is not a "better" question, but simply one of very many alternative questions that address a similar sentiment. It's always a bad idea to put an "and" in such a question, because they might not both do the same thing.

Another thing. Homosexuality is not illegal anywhere. Committing a homosexual act is. Willful homosexual acts are not necessarily committed by homosexuals, for example, prisoners, or sailors at sea. Conversely, many people are aware that they have homosexual desires, but have never committed a homosexual act. And many people have heterosexual desires, but for various reasons, go their whole life celibate and never commit a heterosexual act.

If two members of a religious order go their entire lives honoring their vows of chastity, and one is homosexual and the other is heterosexual, would "science" recognize any difference between them?
This is one of the most fair minded posts I've read on this board relating to the hot topic discussion of sexual orientation. I like EdwardA's posts in this thread too.

@ bold: you are right. You are safer--in terms of socializing--to say homosexuality is genetically caused and the science pretty much backs it up, even if you don't believe that. That's if you want to be approved of by a huge chunk of Americans.

You might be interested in this thread: http://www.city-data.com/forum/relat...sexualism.html

What I find interesting is that given I neither bow to conservatives or liberals in the U.S. on this issue of homosexuality I always get attacked online by both. For different reasons though. The American conservatives generally regard me as a far left-winger and the liberals usually regard me as a far right-winger.

I think among people from India, Southeast Asia, East Asia, Africa, Eastern Europe, the Middle East and to some extent Latin America... I'd viewed as center-left. Or far left for some of the more conservative parts of the Middle East.

Which in a way is awesome for me, because the whole world is not the United States.
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Old 07-12-2013, 12:27 PM
 
Location: USA
8,016 posts, read 9,485,783 times
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because africans are very straight thinking and straight talking
and don't take any nonsense from people, if absolutely possible.
it's genetic.
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Old 07-17-2013, 11:47 AM
 
452 posts, read 755,622 times
Reputation: 435
On the topic of acceptance of gay marriage and gay people in Africa. It can be solved easier if one were to create a time machine, travel back in time to when the Europeans colonized, conquered, exploited, killed people of numerous nations and cultures of people and imposed borders between ethnic groups and created the modern day known countries today that hold wars against each other.

Oh, lets not forget the religions that the Europeans forced religion onto them to "civilize" them. All of the missionaries destroying indigenous spiritual beliefs to impose Abrahamic beliefs that Europeans followed. But yet, all of this impacts how Africans (you know Africa is not a country!!) in modern times, and their own views social issues today, yet it's all of their fault that they are like this. No one wants to look down at history because it might make a certain group of people (of EUROPEAN DECENT) feel bad, or guilty to think about it.

In layman terms and to answer your question OP,

Quote:
Why is Africa so intolerant?


Because the colonization by the Europeans taught them to be that way CENTURIES AGO.
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Old 07-23-2013, 09:50 AM
 
671 posts, read 597,303 times
Reputation: 373
Quote:
Originally Posted by Data1000 View Post
Education breeds tolerance towards people who are different than you. Most of the African nations, in which the vast majority would not want to have a gay neighbor, do not have highly educated populations.
This is hilarious. You are equating acceptance of homosexuality as a by-product of "education." I am absolutely certain that highly educated Africans view homosexuals in the same way that illiterate Africans view them. We don't go to school to be indoctrinated about the correctness of Kofi marrying Adofo. We go to school to learn about literature and mathematics. Africans who do not tolerate homosexual behavior are no more intolerant than westerners who make polygamy illegal. Of course we are expected to accept things as soon as westerners snap their fingers as tell us to jump. Keep dreaming.
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Old 07-23-2013, 06:58 PM
 
Location: NE Mississippi
13,668 posts, read 8,580,903 times
Reputation: 19868
Quote:
Originally Posted by DahomeyAhosi View Post
This is hilarious. You are equating acceptance of homosexuality as a by-product of "education." I am absolutely certain that highly educated Africans view homosexuals in the same way that illiterate Africans view them. We don't go to school to be indoctrinated about the correctness of Kofi marrying Adofo. We go to school to learn about literature and mathematics. Africans who do not tolerate homosexual behavior are no more intolerant than westerners who make polygamy illegal. Of course we are expected to accept things as soon as westerners snap their fingers as tell us to jump. Keep dreaming.
As someone pointed out in another post, education in America is very much about indoctrination and molding of student's minds toward a position selected by the educational community, or perhaps even the political community.

Sometimes American leaders overestimate their effectiveness. They believe they have molded an attitude one way or another, and then allow themselves to believe this new attitude will readily be shared by non-Americans.

As you said, they dream.
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Old 07-24-2013, 10:20 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,663 posts, read 74,269,803 times
Reputation: 36087
Quote:
Originally Posted by DahomeyAhosi View Post
This is hilarious. You are equating acceptance of homosexuality as a by-product of "education." I am absolutely certain that highly educated Africans view homosexuals in the same way that illiterate Africans view them. .
Let me restate what you just said, and just change a few words.

This is hilarious. You are equating acceptance of Blacks as a by-product of "education." I am absolutely certain that highly educated Americans( in the early 20th century) viewed Blacks in the same way that illiterate Americans viewed them.

Are you sure you are aligning yourself on the side you really want to be on?

Last edited by jtur88; 07-24-2013 at 10:29 AM..
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Old 07-24-2013, 12:33 PM
 
Location: San Antonio Texas
11,435 posts, read 16,473,597 times
Reputation: 5224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zara Ray View Post
On the topic of acceptance of gay marriage and gay people in Africa. It can be solved easier if one were to create a time machine, travel back in time to when the Europeans colonized, conquered, exploited, killed people of numerous nations and cultures of people and imposed borders between ethnic groups and created the modern day known countries today that hold wars against each other.

Oh, lets not forget the religions that the Europeans forced religion onto them to "civilize" them. All of the missionaries destroying indigenous spiritual beliefs to impose Abrahamic beliefs that Europeans followed. But yet, all of this impacts how Africans (you know Africa is not a country!!) in modern times, and their own views social issues today, yet it's all of their fault that they are like this. No one wants to look down at history because it might make a certain group of people (of EUROPEAN DECENT) feel bad, or guilty to think about it.

In layman terms and to answer your question OP,



Because the colonization by the Europeans taught them to be that way CENTURIES AGO.
So why haven't African countries evolved in their attitudes in the way that the European countries have?
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