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Old 07-26-2013, 08:11 PM
 
Location: The Netherlands
2,942 posts, read 4,391,208 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwillyfromphilly View Post
Looking at it objectively, what might be considered intolerant in one country may not be the same in another country. I think a major problem occurs when a certain culture or society tries to impose their morality on other nations as if they are the gold standard of what's right and wrong.
This is cultural relativism taken to the extreme. Certain things are objectively right or wrong.

Consensual sex between adults in the privacy of their own bedroom should not be punished by lifetime imprisonment or death.
Genital mutilation of children is wrong.
Women should not be denied the right to an education or access to their own resources.
Forcing little girls to marry strange men old enough to be their grandfather is wrong.

I don't care if these things are "tradition", that doesn't make them moral or right. Slavery used to be tradition in the US too (justified by the Bible) so do you think the abolitionists of the North were wrong to impose their morality on the South? This a matter of human rights. I do not think the gay man in Uganda or the little girl in Yemen should live their life in oppression just because this is the culture they were born into.
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Old 07-26-2013, 08:15 PM
 
Location: The Netherlands
2,942 posts, read 4,391,208 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wehotex View Post
Zimbabwe president calls for the beheading of gays LGBTQ Nation

Here's yet another savage black African country inflicting misery on their gay minorities.
Zimbabwe is not South Africa. The fact is that homosexuals in South Africa have more rights than homosexuals in most Western countries.
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Old 07-26-2013, 08:32 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,663 posts, read 74,259,760 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneTraveler View Post
America does not throw two consenting adults into prison for having any type of sex. What are you talking about? In this country, as long as it involves two consenting adults, your bedroom is your business.

And WHAT THE HELL are you talking about with this?

"Americans are among the very few nationalities who execute anybody for any reason". Only the most severe of criminal acts (murder, Ariel Castro) get the death penalty in this country.
American laws, just like Uganda and every other country, define who can and who cannot have sex. Our laws arbitrarily define ADULT, at a higher age than almost any other country in the world. America is almost the only country in the world with a criminal penalty if one of the "adults" is under 18. American laws define who can have sex, and imprisons people who have sex outside the arbitrary rules made up by laws that are specific to the USA. Just like every other country. And not all consenting adults in the US can legally have sex. There is a whole panoply of professions whose practitioners cannot have legal consensual sex with a client. In most of those cases, there is no criminal penalty, but there are still codified consequences to prohibit consenting adult sex.

Yes, as you say, the USA is one of the few countries that have still retained the barbaric practice of ritually murdering human beings for criminal transgressions. And 20 other countries have done so at least once in the last three years, and only three countries have executed more people than the USA. And almost 200 civilized countries have decided not to do that to people any more, believing that it is unthinkable to treat human beings like that. Including 26 countries that have over 80% Muslims.

Last edited by jtur88; 07-26-2013 at 08:59 PM..
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Old 07-26-2013, 08:44 PM
 
Location: The Netherlands
2,942 posts, read 4,391,208 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Even in Uganda, you can love whomever you want. You just can't have sex with certain people.
And how exactly are authorities going to check that?

I'm sure you, as a heterosexual, would not feel oppressed at all if you were told that you could love whomever you want but you can never have an intimate relationship with someone of the opposite sex. No big deal to be celibate your whole life, or to have to marry and make love to someone you're not at all attracted to, right?
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Old 07-26-2013, 08:49 PM
 
Location: Vineland, NJ
8,483 posts, read 10,467,331 times
Reputation: 5401
Quote:
Originally Posted by LindavG View Post
This is cultural relativism taken to the extreme. Certain things are objectively right or wrong.

Consensual sex between adults in the privacy of their own bedroom should not be punished by lifetime imprisonment or death.
Genital mutilation of children is wrong.
Women should not be denied the right to an education or access to their own resources.
Forcing little girls to marry strange men old enough to be their grandfather is wrong.

I don't care if these things are "tradition", that doesn't make them moral or right. Slavery used to be tradition in the US too (justified by the Bible) so do you think the abolitionists of the North were wrong to impose their morality on the South? This a matter of human rights. I do not think the gay man in Uganda or the little girl in Yemen should live their life in oppression just because this is the culture they were born into.
Slavery is still tolerated in many countries today, so don't try and act like it was some tradition that has long since died out completely. You can't stop everything. Human rights are violated all across the world from various nations. Countries like Saudi Arabia have laws that ban the female gender from driving cars. Isn't that a human rights violation? I don't see a huge outcry to boycott Saudi Arabia by refusing to purchase oil to drive their cars. Of course people don't want to give up their cars and will still buy gas every time their tank gets low on fuel. This proves my point in that societies pick and choose what's right and wrong when it comes to morality and have the nerve to tell other societies they are morally backwards or savages. Give me a break.
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Old 07-26-2013, 08:50 PM
 
Location: The Netherlands
2,942 posts, read 4,391,208 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Our laws arbitrarily define ADULT, at a higher age than almost any other country in the world. America is almost the only country in the world with a criminal penalty if one of the "adults" is under 18. In other words, American laws define who can have sex, and imprisons people who have sex outside the arbitrary rules made up by laws that are specific to the USA. Just like every other country.
In most Western countries, the age of consent is around 16. In the US it's 18, so I guess that puts the US at the same level as countries like Uganda in terms of oppressing sexuality

I don't think even you believe your own posts.
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Old 07-26-2013, 09:05 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,663 posts, read 74,259,760 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LindavG View Post
And how exactly are authorities going to check that?

I'm sure you, as a heterosexual, would not feel oppressed at all if you were told that you could love whomever you want but you can never have an intimate relationship with someone of the opposite sex. No big deal to be celibate your whole life, or to have to marry and make love to someone you're not at all attracted to, right?
Check what?

If I love a 17 year old woman in eight states, "I have been told" that I can have feelings of love for her, but I cannot have an intimate relationship with her, with criminal penalties if I do. I feel oppressed..

Last edited by jtur88; 07-26-2013 at 09:20 PM..
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Old 07-26-2013, 09:14 PM
 
Location: The Netherlands
2,942 posts, read 4,391,208 times
Reputation: 3402
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwillyfromphilly View Post
Slavery is still tolerated in many countries today, so don't try and act like it was some tradition that has long since died out completely. You can't stop everything. Human rights are violated all across the world from various nations. Countries like Saudi Arabia have laws that ban the female gender from driving cars. Isn't that a human rights violation? I don't see a huge outcry to boycott Saudi Arabia by refusing to purchase oil to drive their cars. This proves my point in that societies pick and choose what's right and wrong when it comes to morality and have the nerve to tell other societies they are morally backwards or savages. Give me a break.
I specifically mentioned the US, where slavery is no longer practiced and the vast majority of people, even in the South, are glad that it's no longer a tradition. I'm sure African Americans didn't mind the abolitionists imposing their morality on the Confederate states - or do you?

I know I can't stop human rights violations from happening all over the world (including my own country) but that doesn't mean I should defend them. I'm not going to be PC and pretend that certain barbaric practices are moral just because they are part of "tradition". Purchasing oil from Saudi Arabia does not mean you approve of its treatment of women. If we had to boycott every country that was guilty of human rights violations, international trade would be virtually impossible.

Do you believe that the murder or life imprisonment of consenting homosexual adults, the genital mutilation of children, the oppression of women, and child marriages are not objectively wrong? Can you give me any rational reasons for why these should be considered moral practices?
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Old 07-26-2013, 09:18 PM
 
Location: The Netherlands
2,942 posts, read 4,391,208 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Check what?
Check if a homosexual couple is having sex in the privacy of their own bedroom.

Quote:
If I love a 17 year old woman in ten (I think) states, "I have been told" that I cannot have an intimate relationship with her.
A 17-year-old is not a woman, she's a child (not just in the US, in almost all countries in the world). You'll have to wait for one year to have an intimate relationship with her, which is a minor sacrifice compared to being celibate your entire life, don't you think?
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Old 07-26-2013, 09:56 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,663 posts, read 74,259,760 times
Reputation: 36087
Quote:
Originally Posted by LindavG View Post
Check if a homosexual couple is having sex in the privacy of their own bedroom.



A 17-year-old is not a woman, she's a child (not just in the US, in almost all countries in the world). You'll have to wait for one year to have an intimate relationship with her, which is a minor sacrifice compared to being celibate your entire life, don't you think?
Most countries in the world think a "woman" is one who has reached biological child-bearing age (puberty), and is considered eligible to consummate marriage, and a "child" is a person who is pre-pubescent.. There is absolutely nothing intrinsically immoral about that, your personal and culturally-loaded opinion notwithstanding. It has been that way in nearly all the world for thousands of years.
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