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Old 06-29-2013, 02:22 PM
 
Location: Milwaukee
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Due to scaramouche in the Angola thread I wanted to check out some of thew video coverage on Botswana.

I'm very impressed with the aesthetics of this university campus. Some parts of it reminds me of UW-Milwaukee. Other parts of it look different than UWM but still looks like a university campus you could find in the United States.

The students look like any university students you would find in the U.S.


Tour of the University of Botswana Part 2 - YouTube
University of Botswana - YouTube


Best of Botswana Promo - YouTube
US Television - Botswana 2 - YouTube


Gaborone Fashion Weekend Trailer 2012 - YouTube
Standards of living in Botswana - YouTube


Assuming no cataclysmic disasters happen to the globe and world economy in the next several hundred years, like nuclear war, where do you see African nations like Botswana in the next 150 to 200 years?
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Old 06-29-2013, 06:50 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supine View Post
D

The students look like any university students you would find in the U.S.



Assuming no cataclysmic disasters happen to the globe and world economy in the next several hundred years, like nuclear war, where do you see African nations like Botswana in the next 150 to 200 years?
Students at all universities in all countries look just like students in the USA.

There are no other "African nations like Botswana". It is a unique construction, that largely developed because the wealth of Zimbabwe (and to some extent South Africa too) was pulled out in order to create the modern Botswana. Remember that Botswana, in spite of its vast size, was in the 1970s nothing more than the town of Gaborone on the RSA border, very much like Swaziland and Lesotho. The uncertainty of the future of Zimbabwe (then Rhodesia) led to the whites in that country investing in Botswana, instead, and as Mugabe's Zimbablwe collapsed, became even more intense. In order to protect their investments, the Rhodesian money influenced an orderly development of Botswana -- an advantage that no other African country had, nor likely will ever have. Today's Botswana is not the work of Botswanans, but rather a safe offshore haven developed for and guaranteed by white Rhodesian and South African wealth.
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Old 06-29-2013, 07:05 PM
 
363 posts, read 585,476 times
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Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Students at all universities in all countries look just like students in the USA.

There are no other "African nations like Botswana". It is a unique construction, that largely developed because the wealth of Zimbabwe (and to some extent South Africa too) was pulled out in order to create the modern Botswana. Remember that Botswana, in spite of its vast size, was in the 1970s nothing more than the town of Gaborone on the RSA border, very much like Swaziland and Lesotho. The uncertainty of the future of Zimbabwe (then Rhodesia) led to the whites in that country investing in Botswana, instead, and as Mugabe's Zimbablwe collapsed, became even more intense. In order to protect their investments, the Rhodesian money influenced an orderly development of Botswana -- an advantage that no other African country had, nor likely will ever have. Today's Botswana is not the work of Botswanans, but rather a safe offshore haven developed for and guaranteed by white Rhodesian and South African wealth.
That of course is the biggest mischaracterization one could imagine of the situation.

The Botswana's ran basically a conservative Ronald Reagan type government, was ethnically homogenous, was not invaded during the colonial era and rather had a diplomatic measures to avoid a war, did not have millions of displaced people nor rebels. They were able to lure lots of foreign investment from America and the west due to good government that was not corrupt and pre colonial stability. It had the advantage of not having its ruling class murdered. The success of Botswanians is their own. Rhodesians never could help themselves and were for long time a backwards people who used divide and conquer strategies and the results of their policy is zimbabwe. They have no one to blame but themselves. Mugabe is the child of apartheid policies. You make a radical government you get radical counter revolutionaires.

Mugabe is a product of his time and did what was necessary to make Zimbabwe have a chance of being a real country.
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Old 06-29-2013, 09:10 PM
 
Location: Macao
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Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Students at all universities in all countries look just like students in the USA.
I was thinking the same thing. The videos seem to try to say, 'look, we have the same things that everyone else has'. Maybe that's a message that needs to be said, as there are tons and tons and tons of people who've never traveled anywhere, and have no idea whatsoever.

But, the reality, is that anywhere where there is a university, it's going to have many of the same characteristics and students and such as anywhere else.
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Old 06-29-2013, 11:12 PM
 
Location: Milwaukee
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Well... I have to admit here I know nothing of the history of Botswana or Zimbabwe.

But the history sounds deep and complex from the what jtur and sacara have added to the thread.

Tiger, I have to admit, as of one year ago or less, I viewed Africa as far less developed than it is. I mean I'm sure a lot of it is still undeveloped, not policed, ungoverned, and other parts urban and in sprawling poverty.

I also knew that Africa had cars and middle-class people on its continent. But I thought all of it was far behind what I've seen now in Angola and Botswana.

I'm impressed with the progress they've made in so short a time.

And I would disagree with you that wherever a university (or grade school or high school) is located there is seen buildings and campuses on par with the U.S.

If so, we could say the same with roads, houses, and hospitals.

But why do I think your post just like the thread inquiring about Africa not having its so called "own religion" is meant as a United Statesian method to divide and conquer?

You seem to object to my posts showing Africa in a good depiction. You added no posts showing Africa equal to NYC and London. Why don't you posts some rather than critiquing my posts and chosen vids as counter productive to Botswana, Angola, and Africa? By that I'm saying post some videos that show Africans and the people of Botswana equal to Milwaukeeans and Americans and Europeans.

I think they are. So, contribute in that way.
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Old 06-30-2013, 12:35 AM
 
Location: Macao
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Originally Posted by Supine View Post
And I would disagree with you that wherever a university (or grade school or high school) is located there is seen buildings and campuses on par with the U.S.

If so, we could say the same with roads, houses, and hospitals.
I think your previous post is mixing up differnet posters. I think this is the only one that actually pertains to me. Since, I just mentioned that campuses are similar in different countries.

I'd also say I'd disagree with you that 'other countries' don't have roads, houses, and hospitals. Even in the poorest countries I've been, I regularly saw roads, houses and hospitals.

However, as far as your purpose, which is to create awareness of the fact that Africa does indeed have these things, I'm all aboard for that purpose. As a person who hasn't lived in the U.S. in a couple decades, one of my biggest frustrations is the complete lack of awareness of American's perceptions of the 'non-US/Canada/Europe' world.
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Old 06-30-2013, 11:31 AM
 
Location: Milwaukee
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Originally Posted by Tiger Beer View Post
I think your previous post is mixing up differnet posters. I think this is the only one that actually pertains to me. Since, I just mentioned that campuses are similar in different countries.

I'd also say I'd disagree with you that 'other countries' don't have roads, houses, and hospitals. Even in the poorest countries I've been, I regularly saw roads, houses and hospitals.


However, as far as your purpose, which is to create awareness of the fact that Africa does indeed have these things, I'm all aboard for that purpose. As a person who hasn't lived in the U.S. in a couple decades, one of my biggest frustrations is the complete lack of awareness of American's perceptions of the 'non-US/Canada/Europe' world.
@ bold: I didn't say poor countries were without roads, houses, and hospitals.

I've driven on dirt roads littered with cotton in rural Virginia and seen elderly black folks living in "shotgun-shacks" on stilts with no bathroom (they had outhouses), no running water, and no electricity. Those aree roads and houses too. Just like any potholed roads and small self-made homes in the favelas of Rio are roads and homes.

Various parts of Africa have hospitals that are on par with any hospital to be found in Milwaukee or the United States. However, there are many parts of Africa in which "hospitals" would never be certified in the developed nations of the U.S., Canada, Europe, Aussie Land, or the land of the Japanese.

I saw the state hospital in--I think it was--Guinea Bissua that looked worse than a 1970s NYC tenement, with rusted surgical tools, moldy walls, and needles that were being systematically reused on each patient.

Maybe I can find the video of that. It was horrifying to me.

Here's Wiki on that tiny nation. Guinea-Bissau - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This grade school as a brick and mortar building in Ghana is not on par with American public schools. Certainly not one in Milwaukee. Even the inner-city public grade schools and middle schools in Milwaukee typically have far more money thrown into them than Catholic grade schools.

And I'm not talking about quality of education or quality of pupils or teachers. I'm simply talking about the quality of the physical infrastructure.


African Americans Repatriate to Ghana (part 2) - YouTube

^The school is shown at about the 2:50 mark of the clip above.

A school of that physical structure in a U.S. inner-city for Black-America kids would cause outcry and wrath from Democrats and liberals. H__ll, my former Catholic grade school might have as we were without many of the amenities found in the local public grade and middle schools. We had black pavement as a playground with no outdoor basketball courts. The girls were separated from the boys on the playground. And aside from the low paid nuns the lay teachers received pathetically low pay. Workers are McDonald's probably made more than them (but to increase their pay you would have had to dramatically increase the cost of tuition--so, in a way it is just and good the school closed down after I graduated 8th grade).

I'm sure African college students can learn just as well in less nice looking building and without nice state of the art swimming pools. However, these things are attractive and have their own benefits not least of which is elevation of Africa--in terms of infrastructural development at least--in the eyes of the world.
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Old 07-04-2013, 12:21 PM
 
32,055 posts, read 32,950,797 times
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Originally Posted by Supine View Post
Well... I have to admit here I know nothing of the history of Botswana or Zimbabwe.

But the history sounds deep and complex from the what jtur and sacara have added to the thread.

I also knew that Africa had cars and middle-class people on its continent. But I thought all of it was far behind what I've seen now in Angola and Botswana.

You seem to object to my posts showing Africa in a good depiction. You added no posts showing Africa equal to NYC and London. Why don't you posts some rather than critiquing my posts and chosen vids as counter productive to Botswana, Angola, and Africa? By that I'm saying post some videos that show Africans and the people of Botswana equal to Milwaukeeans and Americans and Europeans.
Botswana was formerly a British protectorate called Bechuanaland.

I visited a few years ago and I got the impression that the young people there are very modern. So it isn't surprising that the university students in Botswana are similiar to American university students.
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Old 07-05-2013, 08:55 PM
 
Location: Oroville, California
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Originally Posted by scaramouchebluez View Post
Mugabe is a product of his time and did what was necessary to make Zimbabwe have a chance of being a real country.
Forcing the white Rhodesians to the bargaining table and free elections, yes. Running the country into the ground with corruption, cronyism and a vendetta against the few remaining Europeans, no. That was not necessary.
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Old 07-06-2013, 09:57 AM
 
Location: Houston, Texas
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I would think there would be two worries if you're a resident of Botswana: a huge dip in the demand for its minerals; and unrest in any of the neighboring countries like Zimbabwe and SA, which could send an influx of immigrants their way. Do they have problems with Zimbabweans crossing illegally now?

Other than that, from afar at least, it seems like a well-run country. I haven't run into any ex-pats from Botswana but it would be interesting to hear from someone first-hand what it's like to live/work there.

Though, from those videos posted, the university campus seemed oddly depopulated and devoid of life.
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