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Old 07-15-2013, 05:32 PM
 
Location: San Diego, California Republic
16,431 posts, read 22,344,098 times
Reputation: 8623

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Yes, it is the simple way to go. And the simplest approach is often the correct one. Who is taking Nas and Dead Prez literally other than the 1,000 people (you included) that can't distinguish between the literal and metaphorical?

This thread is a complete waste of time. You're sitting here arguing about what a dumb ass rapper said. Not the President. Not the Secretary of State. Not the Secretary of Homeland Defense. But a rapper.
You need to know your audience better. First of all, I do not listen to rap. Second of all, I mentioned that many who do are the ones who are taking it more seriously as those rappers themselves often do. What part of this is causing confusion for you? Third, the reason I am not talking about the president, secretary of state or homeland security (the word for that department is security BTW), is because no one mentioned that they were the ones who made the claim. if they were, then that's what I'd be talking about. It really is quite simple; pay attention and make sure you understand what's happening BEFORE you spout off like that.
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Old 07-15-2013, 05:37 PM
 
Location: San Diego, California Republic
16,431 posts, read 22,344,098 times
Reputation: 8623
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwillyfromphilly View Post
I don't get that logic either. They are just rappers. The fact that some posters on here are taking their lyrics so literal as if they are presenting historical documentation.
Now you're contradicting yourself. Didn't you just rile on about how the who are part of said group are the best source to go to? well these rappers are part of the group we're talking about but now it's inconvenient to listen to those in the group. Unbelievable!
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Old 07-15-2013, 05:38 PM
 
Location: San Diego, California Republic
16,431 posts, read 22,344,098 times
Reputation: 8623
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
You're defeating your own argument. "Just Rappers" are living representatives of and spokesmen for the culture, and you say they know best and are to be taken literally, over the scholarship of any external academics and researchers. You proposed that if we want to know about some obscure culture in China, we go and ask "just rappers" who are members of that culture and take it literal as if they are presenting historical documentation.
^This. Thank you.
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Old 07-15-2013, 07:55 PM
 
Location: Vineland, NJ
8,483 posts, read 10,458,635 times
Reputation: 5397
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
You're defeating your own argument. "Just Rappers" are living representatives of and spokesmen for the culture, and you say they know best and are to be taken literally, over the scholarship of any external academics and researchers. You proposed that if we want to know about some obscure culture in China, we go and ask "just rappers" who are members of that culture and take it literal as if they are presenting historical documentation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gentoo View Post
Now you're contradicting yourself. Didn't you just rile on about how the who are part of said group are the best source to go to? well these rappers are part of the group we're talking about but now it's inconvenient to listen to those in the group. Unbelievable!
Once again(and not surprising) you both clearly misinterpreted what I said.

First of all, anyone can be a rapper regardless of race. Their music is for entertainment purposes. The rapper can talk about anything from money, fame, violence, sex, politics, etc. Anyone who takes all their lyrics literally word for word as absolute truth might need some psychiatric help. As for scholarship, are there not academic scholars and researchers that are part of these certain groups. Why do you automatically assume that academic scholars and researchers have to automatically come from someone from another ethnicity or racial group?

My earlier post was just stating that we have a history of certain groups who have colonized or conquered other groups, and that they are known to distort or hide facts when it comes to the history of the people they have conquered. I was speaking from an historical perspective. Remember I did say that things have gotten a lot better in modern times. I never said I was against academic scholarship or research.
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Old 07-15-2013, 08:07 PM
 
Location: San Diego, California Republic
16,431 posts, read 22,344,098 times
Reputation: 8623
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwillyfromphilly View Post
Once again(and not surprising) you both clearly misinterpreted what I said.

First of all, anyone can be a rapper regardless of race. Their music is for entertainment purposes. The rapper can talk about anything from money, fame, violence, sex, politics, etc. Anyone who takes all their lyrics literally word for word as absolute truth might need some psychiatric help. As for scholarship, are there not academic scholars and researchers that are part of these certain groups. Why do you automatically assume that academic scholars and researchers have to automatically come from someone from another ethnicity or racial group?

My earlier post was just stating that we have a history of certain groups who have colonized or conquered other groups, and that they are known to distort or hide facts when it comes to the history of the people they have conquered. I was speaking from an historical perspective. Remember I did say that things have gotten a lot better in modern times. I never said I was against academic scholarship or research.
Still tripping over yourself I see, don't back peddle so fast. For starters, the fact that your argument is flawed is showing due to your focusing on the rappers more and more. Not gonna work here. Rappers, like most artist (I myself am a musician) pull from real life experiences, beliefs and values for their inspiration. I don't even listen to Hip-Hop and even I know that almost no genre is more honest than Hip-Hop so I don't know what planet you've been sun bathing on.

Were you not able to understand what I meant when I said that people within a group have a collective pride and that can distort facts? What's going on with you here?
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Old 07-15-2013, 08:22 PM
 
Location: Vineland, NJ
8,483 posts, read 10,458,635 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gentoo View Post
Still tripping over yourself I see, don't back peddle so fast. For starters, the fact that your argument is flawed is showing due to your focusing on the rappers more and more. Not gonna work here. Rappers, like most artist (I myself am a musician) pull from real life experiences, beliefs and values for their inspiration. I don't even listen to Hip-Hop and even I know that almost no genre is more honest than Hip-Hop so I don't know what planet you've been sun bathing on.
So I'm suppose to take rappers lyrics word for word as absolutely truth and apply it to academic scholarship? Seems rather ridiculous if you asked me.

Quote:
Were you not able to understand what I meant when I said that people within a group have a collective pride and that can distort facts? What's going on with you here?
I was merely responding to the somewhat close-minded post you said earlier.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gentoo View Post
Like I've said before; often the worse place to find out about a group of people is from that group themselves.
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Old 07-15-2013, 08:34 PM
 
Location: San Diego, California Republic
16,431 posts, read 22,344,098 times
Reputation: 8623
Quote:
So I'm suppose to take rappers lyrics word for word as absolutely truth and apply it to academic scholarship? Seems rather ridiculous if you asked me.
Show me a post where I said that to you? Go ahead, I'll wait. You have no intelligent response to anything me or anyone else has said to you so you resort to deflecting and this...

Quote:
I was merely responding to the somewhat close-minded post you said earlier.
Interesting because an open minded person, if they didn't understand what this meant would have gone about finding out. Either you are close minded or you simply are too simple minded to understand more complex scenarios of human behavior.
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Old 07-15-2013, 09:04 PM
 
Location: Vineland, NJ
8,483 posts, read 10,458,635 times
Reputation: 5397
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gentoo View Post
Show me a post where I said that to you? Go ahead, I'll wait. You have no intelligent response to anything me or anyone else has said to you so you resort to deflecting and this..
Please pay attention because I'm only going to do this once.

My statement was...
Quote:
First of all, anyone can be a rapper regardless of race. Their music is for entertainment purposes. The rapper can talk about anything from money, fame, violence, sex, politics, etc. Anyone who takes all their lyrics literally word for word as absolute truth might need some psychiatric help. As for scholarship, are there not academic scholars and researchers that are part of these certain groups. Why do you automatically assume that academic scholars and researchers have to automatically come from someone from another ethnicity or racial group?
Your response was...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gentoo View Post
Still tripping over yourself I see, don't back peddle so fast. For starters, the fact that your argument is flawed is showing due to your focusing on the rappers more and more. Not gonna work here. Rappers, like most artist (I myself am a musician) pull from real life experiences, beliefs and values for their inspiration. I don't even listen to Hip-Hop and even I know that almost no genre is more honest than Hip-Hop so I don't know what planet you've been sun bathing on.

Were you not able to understand what I meant when I said that people within a group have a collective pride and that can distort facts? What's going on with you here?
My response after that was...
Quote:
So I'm suppose to take rappers lyrics word for word as absolutely truth and apply it to academic scholarship? Seems rather ridiculous if you asked me.
You said my statement was wrong because I believed that rappers lyrics shouldn't be taking word for word as absolute truth to academic scholarship and research and you boldly disagreed with that.
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Old 07-15-2013, 09:30 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,663 posts, read 74,221,895 times
Reputation: 36087
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwillyfromphilly View Post
Why do you automatically assume that academic scholars and researchers have to automatically come from someone from another ethnicity or racial group?
Academics and scholars come from ALL ethnicities. Any one of six billion people can follow the curriculum and become a recognized expert in the field, and the work of each one is subject to the peer review of all the others, including those who are of the ethnicity that is being studied. If you have absolutely no idea what I'm talking about, just say so, and someone will explain to you in further detail how scientific research works. Do you think there is some autocratic academic tyrant somewhere, who appoints which researchers work on each project?

Go and get your PhD in some related field, and apply for a grant, and go and do the field work, and publish your results, and the other PhDs will read it (without giving a damn who you are or what ethnicity) and if it meets rigorous scientific criteria of thoroughness and objectivity (which you will document in exquisite detail), it will be generally accepted in the body of work that is recognized in that particular discipline.

Last edited by jtur88; 07-15-2013 at 09:43 PM..
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Old 07-15-2013, 11:04 PM
 
Location: San Diego, California Republic
16,431 posts, read 22,344,098 times
Reputation: 8623
Quote:
You said my statement was wrong because I believed that rappers lyrics shouldn't be taking word for word as absolute truth to academic scholarship and research and you boldly disagreed with that.
You really are simple minded. Now you listen to me because it's my turn to only say something...well...one more time since you just don't seem to get it:

What I said was, Those rappers (and before you go into your rappers are different races baloney) are talking about what they truly believe. those saying we (blacks) are from kings and queens ARE BLACK!!! You have to be doing this on purpose because no one can be this dense! Those black rappers are quite obviously from the black community but since they are rappers you now want to disregard it because it throws a wrench in your poorly tuned argument. Your attempt to deflect has continuously ended in failure so vast, I'm actually embarrassed for you.
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