U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Africa
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 01-26-2015, 02:27 AM
 
Location: Middle of the Pacific Ocean
11,661 posts, read 6,271,423 times
Reputation: 11477

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Irene-cd View Post
there is not such a thing as hispanic food, when Americans specially say hispanic food they think mexican, I can guarantee you in south america people don't eat or know what mexican food is, and in spain mexican food was pretty much unheard of until recent years

history, there is not a common hispanic history, more than 20 countries around the world speak spanish and they all have different histories from one another

dance? there is no hispanic dance, in argentina you have tango, in spain you have flamenco, in cuba you have mambo, in colombia you have bolero, in mexico you have that accordion mariachi stuff, each spanish speaking country has its own different kind of music

hispanic simply means you speak spanish as a first language or you are immerse in one of the many cultures where spanish is spoken....... J lo is not really hispanic, she cannot speak spanish that well, if she was to come to colombia she'd be seen as an american!

Equatorial guineans are hispanic, when you meet them they speak spanish with even a spaniard accent and that is their mother language!!

I also know Wahariis (people of western sahara) arabs whose land was a colony of spain, spanish is their first language and they are hispanic, or millions of ladinos (spanish speaking jews mostly from spain and israel)

hispanic is not a race, is not a culture, is not a people.... hispanic simply means you speak spanish
Hispanic is much broader than that. According to the U.S. Census Bureau, in a definition most people would adhere to in the US and elsewhere, the ethnonym Hispanic or Latino refers to "a person of Cuban, Mexican, Puerto Rican, South or Central American (except for Brazil), or other Spanish culture or origin regardless of race." Most would accept that there are Hispanic people who don't speak Spanish, such as J.Lo. Also, there are common aspects of music/dance and food that are common throughout many Latin American countries, namely food and music that have been influenced by Spain and certain indigenous and African cultures. If by Mexican food you mean tacos and burritos, I'd agree with you, but that hardly captures Mexican cuisine. And, note, this isn't to say that countries wont put their own spin on things, but there are often key similarities between countries: Latin American cuisine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also, common history brings up ties to Spain, etc, in addition to some other similarities. It does not suggest that each Latin American/Hispanic country shares identical histories.

In light of above, I'm not comfortable, without knowing more, saying that people from this African nation are Hispanic.

J.Lo may not be considered Hispanic by some in Colombia, but she is amongst Hispanic people in the U.S. and other places.

Last edited by prospectheightsresident; 01-26-2015 at 02:41 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-26-2015, 07:54 AM
 
80 posts, read 117,728 times
Reputation: 16
[

quote=AntonioR;30616593]Most people in Latin America have some Spanish blood mixed in, so even though most are non-whites, they are genetically tied to Spain and that also legitimizes their cultural, linguistic, culinary, architectural, etc connection to Spain, Hispanic culture, and other Hispanic countries. This is also why a random person from Spain, Venezuela, Cuba, Chile, Panama, Mexico, Colombia, Dominican Republic, Argentina, etc may actually be distant cousins along their European genetic side regardless if they are white, mestizos, mulattoes or whatever other racial mix that includes Spanish/European in the mix.

Having said all of that, the single category taken into consideration if a person is Hispanic or not is actually not based on whether a person has Spanish blood in them, but rather if a person speaks Spanish as their mother tongue. The reason of this is that language affects very deeply the way people see and interpret the world and the mother tongue of a person often does makes the biggest difference between them and others that don't speak the same mother tongue, and this difference is present even with people that speak said mother tongue as a second language.

I'm not sure if most Equatorial Guineans speak Spanish as a mother tongue. Unlike in the Western Hemisphere, in Africa its much more common for natives to speak an African language as a mother tongue and a European language as a second language (what European language predominates as a second language depends on the colonial history of the country: ex-British colonies have English as a second language, ex-French have French, ex-Italian have Italian, etc.)

Take Dominicans as an example. Regardless of the fact that over 90% of Dominicans have Spanish blood and have a genetic/historic/cultural connection to Spain (most of the population is of mostly black/white racially mixed and the white part is mostly of Spanish origin, and most of the white minority descend from Spaniards too); practically 100% of ethnic Dominicans speak Spanish as their mother tongue and over 95% of them not only speak Spanish as a mother tongue, but its also the only language that they speak.

This may not be the case in Equatorial Guinea. For one, most of the population is probably of pure Sub-Saharan African origin and most of the population probably lives in the countryside. That combination is almost a guarantee that most don't speak Spanish as their mother tongue, because in Africa the European influence is almost exclusively concentrated along the major coastal towns and major cities. As soon as people leave the cities, the European influences diminishes very quickly and this is very noticeable.

I'll have to do more research into Equatorial Guinea to be sure of their dynamics, but I'm confident what I said here is probably close to reality.

Equatorial Guinea may be a very true case of colonialism (non-European people having a European culture -which is alien to them- imposed on them) whereas in Latin America I'm not so sure colonialism exist in its true form, because most Latin Americans do have at least some Spanish ancestry, so Spanish culture is not really any more alien to them as are the indigenous or African cultures as well.[/quote]



I have a Spanish friend from north west Spain ( when I went to that area because of I wanted to see how they looked like compared to the others so called Spaniards) which is totally different from the Spaniards of southern Spain. north east speak Catalan and are related to Latin Italians meaning Italians are Latinos not the slaves of the Spaniards that they conquered in the new world . north west speak a Gaelic language because they are Celtic and they didn't leave Spain and the Basque also are from northern Spain and speak Basque. Spaniards from northern Spain speak a different language and they are the ones that are central European looking like south polish people and south Germans and south western Irish. these people never left Spain but southern Spaniards did and other eastern coastal Spaniards but also some Barcelonans did leave but was people from Barcelona not the real latins who live in the hilsl right behind Barcelona. southern spain was conquered by arabs and when spain got it back they wanted to get rid of them so they made them go the the conquered lands while the generals were white spainards and the arabs had children with the nativs and arabs thought of themselves has Spanish. dna studies show the Indians which is what Columbus called you guys which is the equivalent to the N word trace there lineage to middle east, the new world, north Africa and southern spainards still existing since the inquisition basically the ones who converted to catholism.

my friend told me this because he is a gaelic spainard and it angers him that people don't know northern spainrds are totally different people while southern and south central spain are the ones people tend to refer to as Spanish when him they are late arrivals from Italy Greece and north Africa not from Germany france or native spainrds because migration pattern show that that's how spain was population by hunters and gathers from south east Europe to north and then into spain and that's why northern spainards look central European.


eastern euros are Slavic. Germanic countries are Germanic(which I am because Norwegians and celts went to Iceland., celtic countries celtic and south Europe is latin and south eastern are Slavic and Mediterranean.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-26-2015, 09:22 AM
 
Location: USA
19,700 posts, read 14,682,379 times
Reputation: 12723
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irene-cd View Post
there is not such a thing as hispanic food, when Americans specially say hispanic food they think mexican, I can guarantee you in south america people don't eat or know what mexican food is, and in spain mexican food was pretty much unheard of until recent years

history, there is not a common hispanic history, more than 20 countries around the world speak spanish and they all have different histories from one another

dance? there is no hispanic dance, in argentina you have tango, in spain you have flamenco, in cuba you have mambo, in colombia you have bolero, in mexico you have that accordion mariachi stuff, each spanish speaking country has its own different kind of music

hispanic simply means you speak spanish as a first language or you are immerse in one of the many cultures where spanish is spoken....... J lo is not really hispanic, she cannot speak spanish that well, if she was to come to colombia she'd be seen as an american!

Equatorial guineans are hispanic, when you meet them they speak spanish with even a spaniard accent and that is their mother language!!

I also know Wahariis (people of western sahara) arabs whose land was a colony of spain, spanish is their first language and they are hispanic, or millions of ladinos (spanish speaking jews mostly from spain and israel)

hispanic is not a race, is not a culture, is not a people.... hispanic simply means you speak spanish
If the US goverment tells you are Hispanic, thats what you are
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-26-2015, 02:36 PM
 
80 posts, read 117,728 times
Reputation: 16
Hispanic means Iberian latino Italian. black americans have some native American and or white but they still call themselves black or African American the wannabe Hispanics are people who's ancestors were tortured and call indio which my spainard friend told me an that's they call themselves after south euros. my friends a Celtic Spaniard I'm Germanic and celt saxonwold is celtic and germanic
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-28-2015, 08:20 AM
 
29 posts, read 23,309 times
Reputation: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
Unless that you are a Amerindian (Indian), you have some Spanish in you. If you doubt it, why not do a DNA ancestry test? Don't be surprised when Spain pops up and all of the Spanish cousins that will be linked to you too.

The Spanish genetic input predominates in the average Colombian (red = European genes or DNA which is mostly Spanish in countries like Colombia):


Genome-wide patterns of population structure and admixture among Hispanic/Latino populations'

Another plot (red=European DNA, green=African DNA, blue=Amerindian DNA) and Colombians on average have the European input as the largest in their DNA:


Racial Reality: Ancestry of Latinos

By the way, I haven't seen any DNA tests done on Equatorial Guineans, and don't know if any have been done yet, but I suspect the typical Equatorial Guinean's DNA looks like African samples in the last graph, quite different from the Afro-Hispanic Caribbean (Cuba, Puerto Rico, and Dominican Republic.) The typical Equatorial Guinean can definitely say they have no affiliations or ancestral connection to Spain because most of them don't, but Colombians can't say that without fooling themselves or being in denial.



The study is about 330 individuals that they "choose" not 500 millions of mexicans and southamericans and caribbean, they must go to this countries and do the study among the most of the people, not choose 300people, please, the results are of those 330


"The Caribbean basin is home to some of the most complex interactions in recent history among previously diverged human populations. Here, we investigate the population genetic history of this region by characterizing patterns of genome-wide variation among 330 individuals from three of the Greater Antilles (Cuba, Puerto Rico, Hispaniola), two mainland (Honduras, Colombia), and three Native South American (Yukpa, Bari, and Warao) populations. We combine these data with a unique database of genomic variation in over 3,000 individuals from diverse European, African, and Native American populations. We use local ancestry inference and tract length distributions to test different demographic scenarios for the pre- and post-colonial history of the región....."


i doubt the mix in méxico and south américa, because there were and are very racist society, dont like mix
few spaniards went to america in that era because we had very small populations to produce 500 millions of people

spaniards went to argentina, uruguay and Brasil recently, there are big colonies of us

and we don´t have spaniards in guinea, there are pure africans
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-28-2015, 08:44 AM
 
29 posts, read 23,309 times
Reputation: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICELANDICVIKING View Post
[

quote=AntonioR;30616593]Most people in Latin America have some Spanish blood mixed in, so even though most are non-whites, they are genetically tied to Spain and that also legitimizes their cultural, linguistic, culinary, architectural, etc connection to Spain, Hispanic culture, and other Hispanic countries. This is also why a random person from Spain, Venezuela, Cuba, Chile, Panama, Mexico, Colombia, Dominican Republic, Argentina, etc may actually be distant cousins along their European genetic side regardless if they are white, mestizos, mulattoes or whatever other racial mix that includes Spanish/European in the mix.

Having said all of that, the single category taken into consideration if a person is Hispanic or not is actually not based on whether a person has Spanish blood in them, but rather if a person speaks Spanish as their mother tongue. The reason of this is that language affects very deeply the way people see and interpret the world and the mother tongue of a person often does makes the biggest difference between them and others that don't speak the same mother tongue, and this difference is present even with people that speak said mother tongue as a second language.

I'm not sure if most Equatorial Guineans speak Spanish as a mother tongue. Unlike in the Western Hemisphere, in Africa its much more common for natives to speak an African language as a mother tongue and a European language as a second language (what European language predominates as a second language depends on the colonial history of the country: ex-British colonies have English as a second language, ex-French have French, ex-Italian have Italian, etc.)

Take Dominicans as an example. Regardless of the fact that over 90% of Dominicans have Spanish blood and have a genetic/historic/cultural connection to Spain (most of the population is of mostly black/white racially mixed and the white part is mostly of Spanish origin, and most of the white minority descend from Spaniards too); practically 100% of ethnic Dominicans speak Spanish as their mother tongue and over 95% of them not only speak Spanish as a mother tongue, but its also the only language that they speak.

This may not be the case in Equatorial Guinea. For one, most of the population is probably of pure Sub-Saharan African origin and most of the population probably lives in the countryside. That combination is almost a guarantee that most don't speak Spanish as their mother tongue, because in Africa the European influence is almost exclusively concentrated along the major coastal towns and major cities. As soon as people leave the cities, the European influences diminishes very quickly and this is very noticeable.

I'll have to do more research into Equatorial Guinea to be sure of their dynamics, but I'm confident what I said here is probably close to reality.

Equatorial Guinea may be a very true case of colonialism (non-European people having a European culture -which is alien to them- imposed on them) whereas in Latin America I'm not so sure colonialism exist in its true form, because most Latin Americans do have at least some Spanish ancestry, so Spanish culture is not really any more alien to them as are the indigenous or African cultures as well.


I have a Spanish friend from north west Spain ( when I went to that area because of I wanted to see how they looked like compared to the others so called Spaniards) which is totally different from the Spaniards of southern Spain. north east speak Catalan and are related to Latin Italians meaning Italians are Latinos not the slaves of the Spaniards that they conquered in the new world . north west speak a Gaelic language because they are Celtic and they didn't leave Spain and the Basque also are from northern Spain and speak Basque. Spaniards from northern Spain speak a different language and they are the ones that are central European looking like south polish people and south Germans and south western Irish. these people never left Spain but southern Spaniards did and other eastern coastal Spaniards but also some Barcelonans did leave but was people from Barcelona not the real latins who live in the hilsl right behind Barcelona. southern spain was conquered by arabs and when spain got it back they wanted to get rid of them so they made them go the the conquered lands while the generals were white spainards and the arabs had children with the nativs and arabs thought of themselves has Spanish. dna studies show the Indians which is what Columbus called you guys which is the equivalent to the N word trace there lineage to middle east, the new world, north Africa and southern spainards still existing since the inquisition basically the ones who converted to catholism.

my friend told me this because he is a gaelic spainard and it angers him that people don't know northern spainrds are totally different people while southern and south central spain are the ones people tend to refer to as Spanish when him they are late arrivals from Italy Greece and north Africa not from Germany france or native spainrds because migration pattern show that that's how spain was population by hunters and gathers from south east Europe to north and then into spain and that's why northern spainards look central European.


eastern euros are Slavic. Germanic countries are Germanic(which I am because Norwegians and celts went to Iceland., celtic countries celtic and south Europe is latin and south eastern are Slavic and Mediterranean.[/quote]



these terms is only used in usa to classify the mexicans but we don´t use that term in spain, it is a mistake from usa goverment and stupid , we call mexicans mexicans, colombian colombians.........like the rest of the world, we see people of south américa like inmigrants, foreigns, aliens....... with their culture, own music ,food,.race., .......we are very very different, even the language is very different, sometimes i don´t understand it and sometimes southamérica films must be subtitle because we don´t understand.

i see we have the same relationships with our former colonies like france do with their former colonies or, Portugal do with theirs
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-28-2015, 09:09 AM
 
29 posts, read 23,309 times
Reputation: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
Unless that you are a Amerindian (Indian), you have some Spanish in you. If you doubt it, why not do a DNA ancestry test? Don't be surprised when Spain pops up and all of the Spanish cousins that will be linked to you too.

The Spanish genetic input predominates in the average Colombian (red = European genes or DNA which is mostly Spanish in countries like Colombia):


Genome-wide patterns of population structure and admixture among Hispanic/Latino populations'

Another plot (red=European DNA, green=African DNA, blue=Amerindian DNA) and Colombians on average have the European input as the largest in their DNA:


Racial Reality: Ancestry of Latinos

By the way, I haven't seen any DNA tests done on Equatorial Guineans, and don't know if any have been done yet, but I suspect the typical Equatorial Guinean's DNA looks like African samples in the last graph, quite different from the Afro-Hispanic Caribbean (Cuba, Puerto Rico, and Dominican Republic.) The typical Equatorial Guinean can definitely say they have no affiliations or ancestral connection to Spain because most of them don't, but Colombians can't say that without fooling themselves or being in denial.



this study is about only 330 individuals not about 500 millions of mexicans and southaméricans, they "choose" that people for study, they must go to all the countries in the continent and do the study with the most of the people, people from peru from Colombia from Bolivia...... but not "choose" 330 only, is this a joke?, that is the result of those 330 individuals not the rest of the continent, the study must be bigger ,


"The Caribbean basin is home to some of the most complex interactions in recent history among previously diverged human populations. Here, we investigate the population genetic history of this region by characterizing patterns of genome-wide variation among 330 individuals from three of the Greater Antilles (Cuba, Puerto Rico, Hispaniola), two mainland (Honduras, Colombia), and three Native South American (Yukpa, Bari, and Warao) populations. We combine these data with a unique database of genomic variation in over 3,000 individuals from diverse European, African, and Native American populations. We use local ancestry inference and tract length distributions to test different demographic scenarios for the pre- and post-colonial history of the región......."



i doubt the mix in méxico and south américa because there were and are very racist society,

very few spaniards went in that era because we were very few population in spain to mix and became 500 millions people, it is imposible

we have big colonies in argentina, uruguay, Brasil , a lot in Venezuela but we went recently
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-28-2015, 09:38 AM
 
29 posts, read 23,309 times
Reputation: 19



Racial Reality: Ancestry of Latinos




this study is about only 330 individuals not about 500 milions of people of of México and southamérica, they "choose" that people, they must go to the continent and do the study with most of the people in every country, not "choose" 330 individuals , go to Colombia and peru Bolivia.....

this is the results of the 330 individuals not the 500 millions of people of the continent



"The Caribbean basin is home to some of the most complex interactions in recent history among previously diverged human populations. Here, we investigate the population genetic history of this region by characterizing patterns of genome-wide variation among 330 individuals from three of the Greater Antilles (Cuba, Puerto Rico, Hispaniola), two mainland (Honduras, Colombia), and three Native South American (Yukpa, Bari, and Warao) populations. We combine these data with a unique database of genomic variation in over 3,000 individuals from diverse European, African, and Native American populations. We use local ancestry inference and tract length distributions to test different demographic scenarios for the pre- and post-colonial history of the región......"


i doubt the mix in México and southamérica because there were and are very racist

few spaniards went in that era because we were very few population in spain to mix and became 500 millions of people, it is imposible

we have a lot of spaniards, big communities in argentina, uruguay, Brasil, a lot in Venezuela but this is very recently
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-29-2015, 01:11 PM
 
2,388 posts, read 2,953,386 times
Reputation: 1953
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irene-cd View Post
In the US hispanic is often very mexican-centric,
Not really. In the southwest that maybe true but on the east coast "hispanic" is way more Caribbean than it is Mexican.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-29-2015, 01:39 PM
 
2,388 posts, read 2,953,386 times
Reputation: 1953
Quote:
Originally Posted by prospectheightsresident View Post
Hispanic is much broader than that. According to the U.S. Census Bureau, in a definition most people would adhere to in the US and elsewhere, the ethnonym Hispanic or Latino refers to "a person of Cuban, Mexican, Puerto Rican, South or Central American (except for Brazil), or other Spanish culture or origin regardless of race." Most would accept that there are Hispanic people who don't speak Spanish, such as J.Lo. Also, there are common aspects of music/dance and food that are common throughout many Latin American countries, namely food and music that have been influenced by Spain and certain indigenous and African cultures. If by Mexican food you mean tacos and burritos, I'd agree with you, but that hardly captures Mexican cuisine. And, note, this isn't to say that countries wont put their own spin on things, but there are often key similarities between countries: Latin American cuisine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also, common history brings up ties to Spain, etc, in addition to some other similarities. It does not suggest that each Latin American/Hispanic country shares identical histories.

In light of above, I'm not comfortable, without knowing more, saying that people from this African nation are Hispanic.

J.Lo may not be considered Hispanic by some in Colombia, but she is amongst Hispanic people in the U.S. and other places.
Hispanic is a term that doesn't really have currency outside the US (and maybe Canada).

I have in-laws from Madrid who check Hispanic on their census forms but who object to the Latino term as they're not from Latin America . . . and as with most most white hispanics, especially for those who grew up in the US, no one knows or assumes they're hispanic until they start speaking spanish.

My interpretation is that Hispanic refers strictly to people from Spanish speaking countries and that Latino refers to people from Latin America - which would naturally exclude English speaking countries like Guyana, Trinidad, Belize, etc. But in this hemisphere what language you speak has very little to do with your ethnic origins. Go to Montreal and you'll meet people from all over the world speaking French with a Quebecois accent. So, if an African moves to the US and his first language is Spanish then he's probably going to check "Hispanic" on the Census and if he does I don't see the problem. There are lots of Africans whose first language is French or Portuguese or English. Not sure why Spanish should be any different.

I think where this issue really gets murky is when you start meeting Guatemalans who don't speak English and speak broken Spanish because their mother tongue is one of the Mayan languages. IMO those people should be checking the Native American box but not the Hispanic box. This is also really common in the Andean countries where large swathes of the country are speaking Quechua or Aymara and while they've borrowed a lot from Spanish the local culture is far more influenced by Native customs than by Spaniards.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Africa
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top