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Old 01-10-2016, 02:12 PM
 
637 posts, read 644,558 times
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Is it not really crystal clear to everyone how STUPID the classification terms are? No one agrees on what they mean or to whom they should apply?

Let us just get rid of them all!
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Old 01-14-2016, 08:39 AM
 
Location: La Isla Encanta, Puerto Rico
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I myself would call Equatorial Guineans Hispanic as well as Angolans and Mozambiquans Lusophones (Portuguese equivalent of Hispanic). I worked many years for an energy company's African division that operated in those countries and met many black and mulatto gentleman from those countries who either had Iberian blood and/or ONLY spoke Spanish or Portuguese. Many of the folks in the big cities in those countries and better-educated everywhere are "de-tribalized" and don't even know which tribe(s) they originated from and only speak the European language. Therefore I disagree with you. They are no different than a black or brown Cuban or Dominican and are Hispanic or the Portuguese equivalent. EG is more African but many find Luanda, Angola more of a Latin City than an African city. Go to any bar or restaurant on the Isla (night club/beach district) and you'll think you are in Rio's Ipanema (or it's slightly shabby equivalent :-) ). The upper-class women are dead-ringers for the beautiful light brown honeys of Brazil, too.




Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
Most people in Latin America have some Spanish blood mixed in, so even though most are non-whites, they are genetically tied to Spain and that also legitimizes their cultural, linguistic, culinary, architectural, etc connection to Spain, Hispanic culture, and other Hispanic countries. This is also why a random person from Spain, Venezuela, Cuba, Chile, Panama, Mexico, Colombia, Dominican Republic, Argentina, etc may actually be distant cousins along their European genetic side regardless if they are white, mestizos, mulattoes or whatever other racial mix that includes Spanish/European in the mix.

Having said all of that, the single category taken into consideration if a person is Hispanic or not is actually not based on whether a person has Spanish blood in them, but rather if a person speaks Spanish as their mother tongue. The reason of this is that language affects very deeply the way people see and interpret the world and the mother tongue of a person often does makes the biggest difference between them and others that don't speak the same mother tongue, and this difference is present even with people that speak said mother tongue as a second language.

I'm not sure if most Equatorial Guineans speak Spanish as a mother tongue. Unlike in the Western Hemisphere, in Africa its much more common for natives to speak an African language as a mother tongue and a European language as a second language (what European language predominates as a second language depends on the colonial history of the country: ex-British colonies have English as a second language, ex-French have French, ex-Italian have Italian, etc.)

Take Dominicans as an example. Regardless of the fact that over 90% of Dominicans have Spanish blood and have a genetic/historic/cultural connection to Spain (most of the population is of mostly black/white racially mixed and the white part is mostly of Spanish origin, and most of the white minority descend from Spaniards too); practically 100% of ethnic Dominicans speak Spanish as their mother tongue and over 95% of them not only speak Spanish as a mother tongue, but its also the only language that they speak.

This may not be the case in Equatorial Guinea. For one, most of the population is probably of pure Sub-Saharan African origin and most of the population probably lives in the countryside. That combination is almost a guarantee that most don't speak Spanish as their mother tongue, because in Africa the European influence is almost exclusively concentrated along the major coastal towns and major cities. As soon as people leave the cities, the European influences diminishes very quickly and this is very noticeable.

I'll have to do more research into Equatorial Guinea to be sure of their dynamics, but I'm confident what I said here is probably close to reality.

Equatorial Guinea may be a very true case of colonialism (non-European people having a European culture -which is alien to them- imposed on them) whereas in Latin America I'm not so sure colonialism exist in its true form, because most Latin Americans do have at least some Spanish ancestry, so Spanish culture is not really any more alien to them as are the indigenous or African cultures as well.
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Old 01-14-2016, 08:02 PM
 
749 posts, read 596,482 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bamba_boy View Post
I myself would call Equatorial Guineans Hispanic as well as Angolans and Mozambiquans Lusophones (Portuguese equivalent of Hispanic). I worked many years for an energy company's African division that operated in those countries and met many black and mulatto gentleman from those countries who either had Iberian blood and/or ONLY spoke Spanish or Portuguese. Many of the folks in the big cities in those countries and better-educated everywhere are "de-tribalized" and don't even know which tribe(s) they originated from and only speak the European language. Therefore I disagree with you. They are no different than a black or brown Cuban or Dominican and are Hispanic or the Portuguese equivalent. EG is more African but many find Luanda, Angola more of a Latin City than an African city. Go to any bar or restaurant on the Isla (night club/beach district) and you'll think you are in Rio's Ipanema (or it's slightly shabby equivalent :-) ). The upper-class women are dead-ringers for the beautiful light brown honeys of Brazil, too.

When comparing Hispanic and Lusophone, you are using the American definition of the word Hispanic. Which usedoutside of the USA, which leads to confusion. Unlike "hispanic", Lusophone isn't an ethnicity, it means Portuguese speaker nothing more nothing less. I am not sure where you hung out in Angola, but Angolans are very much rooted in African culture. They have nothing to do with Cubans or Dominicans, not even the skin color the latter being very much mulattoes. They are not even that close to Brazilians despite the language.
That would be like calling Canadians, White/Black Americans, Brits, Nigerians, Jamaicans and New Zealanders "Anglo"

PS There's no place called "Isla" in Luanda
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Old 01-17-2016, 11:22 PM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,927,333 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bamba_boy View Post
I nd met many black and mulatto gentleman from those countries who either had Iberian blood and/or ONLY spoke Spanish or Portuguese. , too.


This is like going to Boston and then proclaiming that Americans are Irish.


This is an ELITE sub set of the population. No doubt this group will want to claim to be Hispanic, as they have traditionally looked down on the more indigenous populations, viewing their cultures with disrespect, and holding on to a more Euro notion of the world.


The vast majority not only speak various African languages, but often as their FIRST language, using the colonial language for official purposes.


So no. Angolans, Mozambicans and Equatorial Guineans are NOT equivalent to Cubans and Dominicans. These are African people. In fact when Castro sent Cuban blacks as soldiers to Angola it was reported that BOTH the Cubans and the locals had problems dealing with each other.
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Old 01-18-2016, 08:49 AM
 
Location: La Isla Encanta, Puerto Rico
1,147 posts, read 3,032,819 times
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True, I must confess in the energy company and Ministry of Petroleum world most of the people I met were engineers and earth scientist that you would probably consider , as you say, "the elite sub-set" of all Angolans and I had limited opportunity to head out on my own unescorted to meet the everyday Angolans, I regret.


Also, pardon my use of Isla (Spanish) rather than Ilhia (Portuguese word for Island) da Luanda for the entertainment/ restaurant district.
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Old 01-18-2016, 08:53 AM
 
Location: La Isla Encanta, Puerto Rico
1,147 posts, read 3,032,819 times
Reputation: 1312
Quote:
Originally Posted by seixal View Post
When comparing Hispanic and Lusophone, you are using the American definition of the word Hispanic. Which usedoutside of the USA, which leads to confusion. Unlike "hispanic", Lusophone isn't an ethnicity, it means Portuguese speaker nothing more nothing less. I am not sure where you hung out in Angola, but Angolans are very much rooted in African culture. They have nothing to do with Cubans or Dominicans, not even the skin color the latter being very much mulattoes. They are not even that close to Brazilians despite the language.
That would be like calling Canadians, White/Black Americans, Brits, Nigerians, Jamaicans and New Zealanders "Anglo"

PS There's no place called "Isla" in Luanda





Pardon my use of Isla (Spanish) rather than Ilhia (Portuguese word for Island) da Luanda for the entertainment/ restaurant district. I know Luanda is one of the construction capitals of the world today and rapidly changing. Has The Ilhia been bulldozed since I was last there 11 or 12 years ago?


You're probably correct about African-Americans, Nigerians, and black Jamaicans not being called Anglos but I think in most contexts white Canadians, Americans, Brits and New Zealanders WOULD be called Anglo's. Why do you think they wouldn't? Probably mistakenly, but in south and central America even non-English speaking Europeans or Quebequers speaking French, German, etc would be labeled Anglos.


These semantic arguments are probably unresolvable because every culture and even individual has different context of his life, different contact with people from the countries in question, and different useages and understanding of the labels from their own countries. We shouldn't define people with labels coming only from their native language or skin color, but from their individual attributes.
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Old 01-28-2016, 10:02 PM
 
387 posts, read 270,774 times
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The Spanish are the most "successful" colonizers of all time (even more than the British who are commonly blamed the most for colonialism)....and they did not bring their Spanish women overseas with them when they went to explore and conquer Latin/South America......The "Conquistador" Whites (Spanish and Portuguese) send waves and waves of young aggressive Men over to the new world to find gold and take land/riches for Spain....their main goal was conquest and destruction....Spanish/Portuguese Women and Children did not go on these voyages with them and that is why many Hispanics in Central/South America are varying degrees of "???" when it comes to racial identity.....

The British and the French on the other hand (the Whites that mainly colonized North America) brought entire communities (Men/Women/Children) from Britain/France with them when they went to the North America.....So they have no need or desire to mate with Africans or the Natives....They simply mated with their British and French Women and started settlements....They were much more interested in building communities/escaping religious and economic oppression in Britain/France than taking Gold and other resources like the Spanish Whites were....

That is (essentially) why there are not many "Mestizos" or "Mulattos" in Canada or the US, but a ton of them anywhere from Mexico on down to Argentina...
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Old 01-31-2016, 03:41 AM
 
Location: Caribbean
7,558 posts, read 2,428,887 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seixal View Post
When comparing Hispanic and Lusophone, you are using the American definition of the word Hispanic. Which usedoutside of the USA, which leads to confusion. Unlike "hispanic", Lusophone isn't an ethnicity, it means Portuguese speaker nothing more nothing less. I am not sure where you hung out in Angola, but Angolans are very much rooted in African culture. They have nothing to do with Cubans or Dominicans, not even the skin color the latter being very much mulattoes. They are not even that close to Brazilians despite the language.
That would be like calling Canadians, White/Black Americans, Brits, Nigerians, Jamaicans and New Zealanders "Anglo"

PS There's no place called "Isla" in Luanda
All Hispanic really means, imho, is Spanish-speaking. They are a Spanish-speaking nation so...yes. How much Spanish-derived culture has influenced their nation is perhaps the debate to be had...
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Old 02-15-2016, 06:50 PM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,927,333 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribdoll View Post
All Hispanic really means, imho, is Spanish-speaking. ..


Never heard Trinidad & Tobago classified as an "Anglo Saxon" nation even though the vast majority are monolingual (and at times even arrogantly.


This while the vast majority of Equatorial Guineans speak a variety of languages, with their ethnic language most often the one most used. No one here will contemplate describing Kenyans as Anglo Saxon, so why are these people Hispanic?
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Old 02-15-2016, 08:52 PM
 
749 posts, read 596,482 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribdoll View Post
All Hispanic really means, imho, is Spanish-speaking. They are a Spanish-speaking nation so...yes. How much Spanish-derived culture has influenced their nation is perhaps the debate to be had...

Literally speaking yes. However in the US "Hispanic" is also implied as an ethnic group, hence the confusion that oftentimes arises.
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