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Old 07-01-2017, 09:21 AM
AFP
 
6,898 posts, read 4,249,541 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
There has never been a white leader since independence. Since Angola's economy has tumbled with the drop in oil prices I bet that the Portuguese are fleeing, and I bet that those who live in Angola do so in expat enclaves.
There is a community of ethnic Portuguese that remained even after the mass exodus in the 1970's and they do not live in expat enclaves they are Angolan. As I have posted before unlike the other Europeans in Africa the interactions between the Portuguese and Native Africans in the former colonies and even today has always been less formal and much less segregated Angola has never been racially polarized like for example South Africa. I don't know why it's so difficult for you to comprehend that some ethic Portuguese have always gotten along with native Angolans and see themselves as Angolan.
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Old 07-01-2017, 02:41 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AFP View Post
There is a community of ethnic Portuguese that remained even after the mass exodus in the 1970's and they do not live in expat enclaves they are Angolan. .
So why were there whole bloody wars of independence in ALL of the former Portuguese colonies if indeed there was this great relationship and if the Portuguese were so integrated into African societies as equals.

Its nice after 40 years to white wash but those of us who are old enough to remember than Portuguese Africa was placed in the same context as Rhodesia, Namibia and South Africa will laugh at you.

Black Africans in Angola and Mozambique were in the 70s a good deal worse off than where black Ghanaians and Nigerians in the 60s and considerably less likely to have the technical skills necessary to run a sovereign nation.

How many Africans, outside of a small mulatto elite had access to education, even at the primary level?
This is just the usual Latin apologist endorsement of racism.
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Old 07-03-2017, 07:25 PM
 
24,247 posts, read 17,643,654 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
There has never been a white leader since independence. Since Angola's economy has tumbled with the drop in oil prices I bet that the Portuguese are fleeing, and I bet that those who live in Angola do so in expat enclaves.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Angola

"Portuguese is the sole official language. Due to cultural, social and political mechanisms which date back to the colonial history, the number of native Portuguese speakers is large and growing.[2] A 2012 study by the Angolan National Institute for Statistics found that Portuguese is the mother tongue of 39% of the population.[1][3] It is spoken as a second language by many more throughout the country, and younger urban generations are moving towards the dominant or exclusive use of Portuguese. A 2014 study found that about 71% of the nearly 25.8 million inhabitants of Angola speak Portuguese.[4][5][6][7]

In urban areas, 85% of the population speaks Portuguese, against 49% in rural areas.[6] Portuguese was quickly adopted by Angolans in mid-twentieth century as a lingua franca among the various ethnic groups. After the Angolan Civil War, many people moved to the cities where they learned Portuguese. When they returned to the countryside, more people were speaking Portuguese as a first language. The variant of the Portuguese language used in Angola is known as Angolan Portuguese. Phonetically, this variant is very similar to the Brazilian variant with some notable exceptions.[8] In some respects, Angolan Portuguese resembles that of a pidgin.[9]

So the native languages are alive and quite well, and Portuguese is not the mother tongue of the majority. 39% if still not the majority. Assuming this wiki is accurate of course. I've never been to Angola and I haven't studied it.
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Old 07-03-2017, 07:57 PM
 
15,065 posts, read 19,722,360 times
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In my book .... anybody, no matter what they look like, that speaks Spanish fluently is Hispanic
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Old 07-03-2017, 08:20 PM
AFP
 
6,898 posts, read 4,249,541 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
So why were there whole bloody wars of independence in ALL of the former Portuguese colonies if indeed there was this great relationship and if the Portuguese were so integrated into African societies as equals.

Its nice after 40 years to white wash but those of us who are old enough to remember than Portuguese Africa was placed in the same context as Rhodesia, Namibia and South Africa will laugh at you.

Black Africans in Angola and Mozambique were in the 70s a good deal worse off than where black Ghanaians and Nigerians in the 60s and considerably less likely to have the technical skills necessary to run a sovereign nation.

How many Africans, outside of a small mulatto elite had access to education, even at the primary level?
This is just the usual Latin apologist endorsement of racism.

Who said there was equality not me quit trying to stretch out my words to serve your beliefs. As I've said after the mass exodus in the 1970's some ethnic Portuguese remained and are still there to this day living in Angola and they refer to themselves as Angolan and don't live in expat enclaves.

Same context what are you referring to? Portugal was a right wing dictatorship 50 years and the regime viewed the colonies as provinces.

What has that to do with what I posted? The local governors were corrupt and very few Africans were educated in addition there was never a national agreed upon written out policy for the colonies/provinces. You do realize the ethnic Portuguese population wasn't well educated either during the dictatorship other than the well connected families.

Nope I'm not apologizing I clearly pointed out that the racial dynamics were different and then you went off on a tangent.
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Old 07-04-2017, 07:40 AM
 
96 posts, read 22,763 times
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didn't know this thread was going to get these many posts, and I only asked a simple question
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Old 07-04-2017, 09:15 AM
 
2,347 posts, read 954,830 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unwunswer View Post
didn't know this thread was going to get these many posts, and I only asked a simple question
The answer to the original thread question is "No."

"Hispanic" is a American political term that doesn't exist anywhere else in the world.

No one is "hispanic" outside of the United States.
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Old 07-04-2017, 09:41 AM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,942,608 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AFP View Post
There is a community of ethnic Portuguese that remained .
I was referring to those Portuguese who ran down to Angola during its oil boom. You do know that the vast majority of Portuguese living in Angola left once it became obvious that independence was coming. It was so bad that they couldn't even get plumbers to fix toilets once they left, and this was the 70s. Apparently such technology wasn't extended to the Africans.
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Old 07-04-2017, 09:47 AM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,942,608 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AFP View Post
Who said there was equality not me quit trying to stretch out my words to serve your beliefs. .
So there was rampant racism and Africans were uneducated and unskilled and lacked the expertise even to handle basic tasks, as they had been so excluded.

And yet you sing praises to racial dynamics of Portuguese colonial rule. What is admirable about their racial dynamics? That Portuguese settlers impregnated a few African women and then set up the tiny mulatto class as a semi white elite while they engaged in rampant abuse of Africans, in fact for most of the period even denying them the right of citizenship?

I will suggest to you that Nigeria and Ghana were in better shape in 1960 than Angola was in 1975. There was an entire cadre of educated Nigerians and Ghanaians and basic tasks were in the hands of Africans, not in the hands of colonial settlers, as was the case with the Portuguese and Belgians in their respective colonies.

In the early 70s the world saw Portuguese Africa as they saw Rhodesia, South Africa and Namibia. There was little difference in the lives led by the average African in those places. In fact there was more of a black professional class in South Africa than there was in Angola.

There was no virtue in Portuguese colonial rule. The Portuguese were among the worst in Africa and the state of Angola, in the hands of the Portuguese, since the 15-16th centuries, is evidence of this. Only the Belgians were worse.
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Old 07-04-2017, 02:15 PM
AFP
 
6,898 posts, read 4,249,541 times
Reputation: 5878
Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
So there was rampant racism and Africans were uneducated and unskilled and lacked the expertise even to handle basic tasks, as they had been so excluded.

And yet you sing praises to racial dynamics of Portuguese colonial rule. What is admirable about their racial dynamics? That Portuguese settlers impregnated a few African women and then set up the tiny mulatto class as a semi white elite while they engaged in rampant abuse of Africans, in fact for most of the period even denying them the right of citizenship?

I will suggest to you that Nigeria and Ghana were in better shape in 1960 than Angola was in 1975. There was an entire cadre of educated Nigerians and Ghanaians and basic tasks were in the hands of Africans, not in the hands of colonial settlers, as was the case with the Portuguese and Belgians in their respective colonies.

In the early 70s the world saw Portuguese Africa as they saw Rhodesia, South Africa and Namibia. There was little difference in the lives led by the average African in those places. In fact there was more of a black professional class in South Africa than there was in Angola.

There was no virtue in Portuguese colonial rule. The Portuguese were among the worst in Africa and the state of Angola, in the hands of the Portuguese, since the 15-16th centuries, is evidence of this. Only the Belgians were worse.
It was clear that what I posted was something quite different stop twisting my words. You have read a few things on the internet and are claiming to be an expert on this topic. I've spoken with black Angolans and colonial white Portuguese and the racial dynamics were a complex issue but there was never segregation or apartheid like for example South AFrica. There was much more communication and interaction between the races than possibly any other colonial power in Africa. So stop acting like you know what your talking about you've googled and that's about all you know.


Oh stop talking about things you don't know much about there were people who lived in both Mozambique and South Africa who can attest to it being much worse in South Africa.

To be clear I didn't sing the virtues of Portuguese colonialism I don't support colonialism and never have you just have a chip on your shoulder and to be honest you can't stay on topic you go off on tangents about the evil white colonialists. But anyway continue on.

Last edited by AFP; 07-04-2017 at 02:29 PM..
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