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Old 11-23-2013, 08:41 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motion View Post
To me this is related to how Black-Americans have gotten sidetracked from economic self help since 60's integration. Before integration you had "Black Wallstreet" communities where black businesses and banks were common. These things are lacking in Black-America today because during the civil rights era blacks becamed focused on wealth redistribution to deal with economic issues over wealth creation through business ownership. This wealth redistribution focus became the main agenda of Black-America but it caused Black-Americans to de-emphasize business ownership which would provide more jobs and help to reduce black poverty. When other blacks come to America like Africans and Caribbeans they come here with more of an entreprenurial mindset. This is what Black-Americans need to get back to.
It's not quite that simple. Firstly, wealth redistribution is what helped create the White middle class in America, namely via cheap FHA/VA mortgages in the post-war era from which Blacks were largely excluded. Many of the federal programs included in the War on Poverty that were intended to help lift Blacks out of poverty, which included assistance for business owners, were administered locally--and in the South in particular, racist state and local governments ensured that they wouldn't be effective (plus you had outcries from the establishment against the programs which resulted in drastically reduced funding). This also applies to the desegregation of schools, which was carried out locally in ways that stripped many Black teachers and administrators--roll models and community leaders within Black neighborhoods--of their positions, completely erased the legacies of Black schools, and alienated students. Now the liberalization of the welfare laws in particular were certainly detrimental to us as a people, and we shouldn't have abandoned the institutions we worked so hard to establish post-integration; with that I do agree.

Last edited by Mutiny77; 11-23-2013 at 08:49 AM..

 
Old 11-23-2013, 08:56 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
2,851 posts, read 5,591,965 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motion View Post
To me this is related to how Black-Americans have gotten sidetracked from economic self help since 60's integration. Before integration you had "Black Wallstreet" communities where black businesses and banks were common. These things are lacking in Black-America today because during the civil rights era blacks becamed focused on wealth redistribution to deal with economic issues over wealth creation through business ownership. This wealth redistribution focus became the main agenda of Black-America but it caused Black-Americans to de-emphasize business ownership which would provide more jobs and help to reduce black poverty. When other blacks come to America like Africans and Caribbeans they come here with more of an entreprenurial mindset. This is what Black-Americans need to get back to.
This is definitely true. Africans (West Africans and Southern Africans in particular) tend to be very entrepreneurial by nature and by necessity. In places like Nigeria most people aren't able to obtain regular nine to five type jobs but instead meek out whatever existence they possibly can by being vendors, store keepers, traders, craftsmen, etc. Salesmanship, industrialism, and self motivation are qualities that often decide whether you eat or not over there for millions of people.

In contrast to this due to our history African Americans have really had to struggle to establish our own business. Our lot has been more to work for others. During integration there was actually more black businesses because African Americans would heavily patronize their own. The prevailing attitude among most Blacks today, however, is that the ultimate goal is to find a really good job working for someone else and only few get the desire to start their own business.
 
Old 11-23-2013, 11:14 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post
It's not quite that simple. Firstly, wealth redistribution is what helped create the White middle class in America, namely via cheap FHA/VA mortgages in the post-war era from which Blacks were largely excluded.
I'm not against gov't playing a role in reducing poverty. But I think it has its limits. Too many Black-Americans are overly reliant on government. Gov't aid is just one part. The other part is how people handle their money. There is a lot of misused money in Black-America. Black-American spending power is at one trillion dollars but very little of that is being recieved by black businesses. This is effecting how successful black businesses could be in expanding and creating more employment. Also too many Black-Americans spend huge amounts of money on things like clothes,cars,rims and loud a$$ stereo systems but few have invested money. We need more financial literacy being promoted in the Black community.
 
Old 11-23-2013, 02:36 PM
 
Location: San Diego, California Republic
16,439 posts, read 22,376,391 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motion View Post
I'm not against gov't playing a role in reducing poverty. But I think it has its limits. Too many Black-Americans are overly reliant on government. Gov't aid is just one part. The other part is how people handle their money. There is a lot of misused money in Black-America. Black-American spending power is at one trillion dollars but very little of that is being recieved by black businesses. This is effecting how successful black businesses could be in expanding and creating more employment. Also too many Black-Americans spend huge amounts of money on things like clothes,cars,rims and loud a$$ stereo systems but few have invested money. We need more financial literacy being promoted in the Black community.
Your post is good because it also touches on a few other factors I think. You're right, we need to return to being more responsible for our own financial futures, in larger numbers. What got me thinking as well is; I wonder if the reliance on government is a held over mistrust of private businesses? back when private companies were doing their very best to keep blacks out of certain jobs, as well as housing etc. it wasthe government that step in and made all the new laws banning such practices. Now, many blacks are not able to get out of that cycle. The turned to government due to a deep distrust of the private sector but this, I believe has killed our collective creativity and entrepreneurship.
 
Old 11-23-2013, 05:21 PM
 
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^

I'd just like to see the black middle class become more diversified. I've often read how the bulk of the Black middle class is employed in gov't jobs. Nothing wrong with gov't jobs. It's just the Black middle class needs to be represented more by private sector workers and business owners. I don't know how to fully get rid of discrimination in the private sector. I guess it's a matter of making sure all existing workplace discrimination laws are enforced.
 
Old 11-23-2013, 07:43 PM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,937,902 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motion View Post
^

I'd just like to see the black middle class become more diversified. I've often read how the bulk of the Black middle class is employed in gov't jobs. Nothing wrong with gov't jobs. It's just the Black middle class needs to be represented more by private sector workers and business owners. I don't know how to fully get rid of discrimination in the private sector. I guess it's a matter of making sure all existing workplace discrimination laws are enforced.

The reality is that the people most likely to hire blacks are the public sector, social services sector, and large corporations. Hiring by small/mid sized corporations is based on who you knows you. So it is tougher for people outside of those social networks to even know that vacancies exist, much less to apply.

I have seen too many struggling black business owners. We don't support each other, and we do not have capital so why people think that this is some panacea that will solve all problems escapes me. Those who have the appetite for risk, access to capital and a network that will enable their businesses to succeed will do so. To suggest that those who lack this attempt to set up businesses is just encouraging them to fail.

Oh yes we will hear some talk about certain immigrant groups (black immigrants not known to be especially successful entrepreneurs by the way). Those groups often contain people who come from an entrepreneurial tradition...or the community is tied to each other by language and other cultural traits. Or their homelands produce goods that are demanded by US consumers.

All we can demand is that black people attempt to equip themselves with the best skills that the job market requires, and that they be innovative in seeking out opportunities, where ever they exist. Yes Americans of ALL RACES, need to stop being afraid of mathematics because the best opportunities for people from outside of elite circles is in STEM...but if you cant do math that is not an option.
 
Old 11-23-2013, 08:07 PM
 
Location: San Diego, California Republic
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Caribny makes a good point. The public sector is more likely to hire blacks and I think most blacks are aware of that. many people in my own family hav done those very jobs are frequently tell me that I should look into the city or county.

Another thing about black businesses is that starting a business often requires getting a loan. We are all too much aware of the lending practices as far as granting loans to blacks. It's simply 2 to three times as hard.
 
Old 11-23-2013, 09:08 PM
 
Location: Hollywood, CA
1,576 posts, read 2,539,287 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motion View Post
I'm not against gov't playing a role in reducing poverty. But I think it has its limits. Too many Black-Americans are overly reliant on government. Gov't aid is just one part. The other part is how people handle their money. There is a lot of misused money in Black-America. Black-American spending power is at one trillion dollars but very little of that is being recieved by black businesses. This is effecting how successful black businesses could be in expanding and creating more employment. Also too many Black-Americans spend huge amounts of money on things like clothes,cars,rims and loud a$$ stereo systems but few have invested money. We need more financial literacy being promoted in the Black community.
You make a good point. Out here in So Cal. Businesses in most heavily Black neighborhoods are run by Koreans who don't even live in those communities. So the money that Black Americans do spend is not going back to the community.
 
Old 11-23-2013, 10:53 PM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,937,902 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gentoo View Post
Caribny makes a good point. The public sector is more likely to hire blacks and I think most blacks are aware of that. many people in my own family hav done those very jobs are frequently tell me that I should look into the city or county.

Another thing about black businesses is that starting a business often requires getting a loan. We are all too much aware of the lending practices as far as granting loans to blacks. It's simply 2 to three times as hard.

Having said what I said I do think that our heavy concentration in the public sector is a problem when this sector is going to under go severe shrinking.

There is a reason why so many AAs work for govt. Having said that those who can find opportunities in the private sector should.

And the reason why starting is business is so difficult for those who do not have that experience within their social networks is because no bank is going to lend a start up business money. You must have your own resources, borrow from friends and family, or (if possible) interest private investors. We aren't a community that fits this profile so most black businesses are under capitalized and are for ever struggling to pay the bills.

I am not going to engage in whether banks are racist or not, but I do know that black owned banks have even more conservative lending policies than the mainstream banks.
 
Old 11-23-2013, 11:34 PM
 
6,566 posts, read 9,079,396 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post

I have seen too many struggling black business owners. We don't support each other, and we do not have capital so why people think that this is some panacea that will solve all problems escapes me.
It should be a panacea. It's part of the panacea in other communities. But because of the way blacks have been socialized by both racism and by black politicians,intellectuals and revolutionaries economic self help has been made more complicated in the black community. Racism has created "the white man's ice is colder" mentality. Black liberal politicians,intellectuals and marxist 60's revolutionaries have turned too many blacks off to capitalism creating an over dependence on wealth redistribution as the panacea which I say has caused blacks to not emphasize wealth creation through business ownership and investing.

A good example of a group that has made business a panacea are Chinese Americans. In Chinatown EVERYTHING is owned and run by Chinese.

Quote:

2. Chinese money stays in the Chinese community

From my observations, everything Chinese people need is in their neighborhood. As I stated earlier, I have seen mostly people who look like them working in their stores. They probably don’t have to leave the community unless they just want to. And, I have to wonder, how many times does the dollar circulate in their community before it leaves the community? Here’s a random, yet relevant thought: Have you ever seen any Asian people in businesses in the Black community if they were not the owners?

3 Lessons the Black Community Can Learn from Chinatown | Shorty: Your Chicago South Side Resource

Last edited by Motion; 11-24-2013 at 12:25 AM..
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