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Old 11-23-2013, 11:48 PM
 
6,573 posts, read 9,090,045 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gentoo View Post

Another thing about black businesses is that starting a business often requires getting a loan. We are all too much aware of the lending practices as far as granting loans to blacks. It's simply 2 to three times as hard.
More Black-Americans could utilize the susu loan method that's popular with Africans and Caribbean Blacks.

A good article on this:

Franchise Profile - Jamaican Entrepreneurs | Entrepreneur.com

 
Old 11-24-2013, 12:29 AM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,949,240 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motion View Post
More Black-Americans could utilize the susu loan method that's popular with Africans and Caribbean Blacks.

A good article on this:

Franchise Profile - Jamaican Entrepreneurs | Entrepreneur.com

Susu makes a good story but it is not as useful in mobilizing the levels of capital needed to start a business as some think. I spend lots of time with Caribbean business people in NYC and their biggest challenge is raising cash.
 
Old 11-24-2013, 12:46 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motion View Post
It should be a panacea. It's part of the panacea in other communities. But because of the way blacks have been socialized by both racism and by black politicians,intellectuals and revolutionaries economic self help has been made more complicated in the black community. Racism has created "the white man's ice is colder" mentality. Black liberal politicians,intellectuals and marxist 60's revolutionaries have turned too many blacks off to capitalism creating an over dependence on wealth redistribution as the panacea which I say has caused blacks to not emphasize wealth creation through business ownership and investing.

A good example of a group that has made business a panacea are Chinese Americans. In Chinatown EVERYTHING is owned and run by Chinese.

We are not Chinese and will never be, so telling people to learn from the Chinese makes no sense. AAs have been in this country for almost 400 years. To compare such a group with an immigrant group is useless.

AAs aspire to be mainstream and lack strong traits which separate them from a USA which they played an important role in building. Chinese have their language and a strong culture which makes them a cohesive community separate from the mainstream. They depend on each other and so the group can sanction people who do not behave within certain norms, like not repaying money raised from others within the community. China is also a major exporter so this provides a niche for some of these businesses.

AAs are not like that and I will argue neither are English speaking immigrants from the Caribbean and Africa. Francophone Africans are more like that but they are amongst the poorest people in NYC, and I am willing to bet that they push their kids to excel in school so they can get a good job.

Plus how do you start teaching blacks to support other blacks without some feeling (correctly) that this is a form of racism as others will be excluded for reasons of race only. The ethnically based Chinese do not need to be told to support other Chinese. They just do, and so the accusations of racism don't arise.


Do you own a business by the way? I do and my clients are mainly other black business people. I can assure you that the blacks with good corporate jobs are much better off, though there are trade-offs that not every one will accept. The black under class do not even begin to understand what starting a business is.

And despite the mythology of the wonders of the black business class under Jim Crow it is obvious that AAs as a group are much better off now than they were then, and that blacks in the North were better off than the segregated southern blacks were. Note that there were only a few "Black Wall Streets".

My advice to young blacks is to study the job market and acquire the skills and experience to be competitive. If starting up a business becomes an opportunity then they will have some skills and experience (hopefully) good credit and savings and they will be known by potential clients and suppliers. To tell them to open up a business when they cant even balance their checking account is just dooming them to failure.
 
Old 11-24-2013, 01:37 AM
 
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^

I don't view it as Black-Americans needing to become just like Chinese but mainly as far as how they do emphasize business ownership and circulating their dollars. Chinese aren't the only group who do this. You find this with other ethnic communities like Miami Cubans and Jews.

Part of the change for Blacks comes with having this type of economic awareness. I don't own a business myself but my attitude on this has been shaped by being exposed to Blacks who emphasize the need for more Black business ownership.

One of my favorite videos is this one by Dr. Claude Anderson. Being exposed to people like him can play a role in raising more Black people's economic awareness. Then Black attitudes will change as far as the need to start more businesses and with supporting those businesses.



Dr.Claude Anderson on Black Business Ignorance - YouTube
 
Old 11-24-2013, 06:02 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliDude1 View Post
Ever been to a black American baptist church? Stevie Wonder could see the African influence there.
I doubt he could see anything there


Anyway, I never considered AA's African in any respect except mere pigmentation. Some of them seem to be trying desperately to be different from the dominant white culture, though, but that should not be confused with African. Some for instance become Muslims in order to set themselves apart from whites, but that is not African, either.

I am not a music expert, but I have read that the rhythmic component of black US music comes from military music, not from African music. And it might well be true because African rhythms are quite different from those found in what is considered AA music.

Last edited by Neuling; 11-24-2013 at 06:11 AM..
 
Old 11-24-2013, 09:34 AM
 
Location: San Diego, California Republic
16,443 posts, read 22,403,548 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post

I am not a music expert, but I have read that the rhythmic component of black US music comes from military music, not from African music. And it might well be true because African rhythms are quite different from those found in what is considered AA music.
As a musician myself with a working knowledge of western music theory, I can say that the African influence in Black American music is mainly in the vocal styles. I would argue that the rhythm style isn't really African nor anyone else but specifically Black American. Many genres of music today which are not thought of as being Black American started out as such.
 
Old 11-24-2013, 09:37 AM
 
Location: The Magnolia City
8,931 posts, read 11,826,443 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
I doubt he could see anything there


Anyway, I never considered AA's African in any respect except mere pigmentation. Some of them seem to be trying desperately to be different from the dominant white culture, though, but that should not be confused with African. Some for instance become Muslims in order to set themselves apart from whites, but that is not African, either.

I am not a music expert, but I have read that the rhythmic component of black US music comes from military music, not from African music. And it might well be true because African rhythms are quite different from those found in what is considered AA music.
This isn't a very enlightened statement. When you've been torn from the culture of your ancestors, how could any attempts at forming a new identity in your new land be considered anything but earnest? I'm tired of hearing blacks be criticized for not submitting totally to Anglo culture. Why should we have to?

No, we're not completely African. Like most Americans, we are a mixture of different cultures of the people who settled and/or were already here. However, Africa IS a large part of who we are as an ethnic group. That is a fact.

Where are you from?
 
Old 11-24-2013, 10:37 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
21,542 posts, read 19,363,879 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
This isn't a very enlightened statement. When you've been torn from the culture of your ancestors, how could any attempts at forming a new identity in your new land be considered anything but earnest? I'm tired of hearing blacks be criticized for not submitting totally to Anglo culture. Why should we have to?

No, we're not completely African. Like most Americans, we are a mixture of different cultures of the people who settled and/or were already here. However, Africa IS a large part of who we are as an ethnic group. That is a fact.

Where are you from?
I was not criticizing blacks for wanting to be different from the dominant Anglo culture, I understand it given the history of the US. I would do the same thing.
All I am saying is that to me AA's are not African just because they look similar. There are some people like Erykah Badu who seem to be on an Africa trip, but it seems superficial and fake somehow, although I like some of her songs. I don't sense much of the African authenticity found in NE Brazil for instance.
 
Old 11-24-2013, 12:15 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
2,851 posts, read 5,596,556 times
Reputation: 1723
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
I doubt he could see anything there


Anyway, I never considered AA's African in any respect except mere pigmentation. Some of them seem to be trying desperately to be different from the dominant white culture, though, but that should not be confused with African. Some for instance become Muslims in order to set themselves apart from whites, but that is not African, either.

I am not a music expert, but I have read that the rhythmic component of black US music comes from military music, not from African music. And it might well be true because African rhythms are quite different from those found in what is considered AA music.
I've noticed alot of whites lately complaining about African Americans not taking focus off of race and just considering themselves American. What they are totally ignoring is that if there has been anything over the years that has kept Blacks from assimilating into mainstream American culture it has been whites. In fact discrimination, forced segregation, and exclusion has given Blacks in the past no choice but to form our own separate culture. So much so to the point that it is would be difficult for many Blacks to break from this culture and assimilate even if they did want to.

It took hundreds of years of not being allowed into the American mainstream for a Black subculture to be formed but many Whites expect assimilation into the mainstream for many Blacks to happen over night.
 
Old 11-24-2013, 12:53 PM
 
Location: San Diego, California Republic
16,443 posts, read 22,403,548 times
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Neuling and Galounger, as an observer of both of your comments, I think you both make some valid points to be perfectly honest. On the one hand, we haven't assimilated as a whole (although many of us have) for precisely the reasons Galounger has stated. However I also agree with Neuling in that we today are African pretty much by past ancestry and skin color. Because Black Americans were completely stripped of our original culture, we had to pretty much start from scratch at building a new culture. While whites were assimilating other whites and borrowing from those other European cultures, we were starting from the group up. Our Black American culture evolved in North America alongside the other cultures. We would never be the people we are now had it not been for ALL of our experiences both good and bad. Our original racial home is in Africa (by extension so are all people if you go back far enough) however our cultural homeland is in the USA as it did not exist before we got here.
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