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Old 11-24-2013, 01:04 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
21,482 posts, read 19,342,369 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galounger View Post
I've noticed alot of whites lately complaining about African Americans not taking focus off of race and just considering themselves American. What they are totally ignoring is that if there has been anything over the years that has kept Blacks from assimilating into mainstream American culture it has been whites. In fact discrimination, forced segregation, and exclusion has given Blacks in the past no choice but to form our own separate culture. So much so to the point that it is would be difficult for many Blacks to break from this culture and assimilate even if they did want to.

It took hundreds of years of not being allowed into the American mainstream for a Black subculture to be formed but many Whites expect assimilation into the mainstream for many Blacks to happen over night.
Yes, it is an odd situation. In the past they wanted blacks to remain apart, now the opposite, at least at first glance...

 
Old 11-24-2013, 01:05 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gentoo View Post
Neuling and Galounger, as an observer of both of your comments, I think you both make some valid points to be perfectly honest. On the one hand, we haven't assimilated as a whole (although many of us have) for precisely the reasons Galounger has stated. However I also agree with Neuling in that we today are African pretty much by past ancestry and skin color. Because Black Americans were completely stripped of our original culture, we had to pretty much start from scratch at building a new culture. While whites were assimilating other whites and borrowing from those other European cultures, we were starting from the group up. Our Black American culture evolved in North America alongside the other cultures. We would never be the people we are now had it not been for ALL of our experiences both good and bad. Our original racial home is in Africa (by extension so are all people if you go back far enough) however our cultural homeland is in the USA as it did not exist before we got here.
Totally agree with you on this one except I think you meant "ground" up.

You may have seen the story about the African American expatriates returning to Ghana to live and one couple being disappointed that the natives refer to them using the same word they use to refer to white foreigners. And why shouldn't they? While we share many of their physical features in most other ways we are as foreign to them as an Irishman or German.
 
Old 11-24-2013, 01:09 PM
 
Location: San Diego, California Republic
16,439 posts, read 22,387,220 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galounger View Post
Totally agree with you on this one except I think you meant "ground" up.

You may have seen the story about the African American expatriates returning to Ghana to live and one couple being disappointed that the natives refer to them using the same word they use to refer to white foreigners. And why shouldn't they? While we share many of their physical features in most other ways we are as foreign to them as an Irishman or German.
Yeah I meant ground LOL. You're right though and I've heard about how Africans clearly see us as westerners as, in Africa like a large part of the world, culture trumps skin color when it comes to identity.
 
Old 11-24-2013, 01:09 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
21,482 posts, read 19,342,369 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gentoo View Post
Neuling and Galounger, as an observer of both of your comments, I think you both make some valid points to be perfectly honest. On the one hand, we haven't assimilated as a whole (although many of us have) for precisely the reasons Galounger has stated. However I also agree with Neuling in that we today are African pretty much by past ancestry and skin color. Because Black Americans were completely stripped of our original culture, we had to pretty much start from scratch at building a new culture. While whites were assimilating other whites and borrowing from those other European cultures, we were starting from the group up. Our Black American culture evolved in North America alongside the other cultures. We would never be the people we are now had it not been for ALL of our experiences both good and bad. Our original racial home is in Africa (by extension so are all people if you go back far enough) however our cultural homeland is in the USA as it did not exist before we got here.
Some AA's can at least have their dominant ethnic origin (e.g. Yoruba) determined via DNA analysis. With us whites that won't work, our African ancestry dates too far back But even if one knows that one's ancestors came from Nigeria 300 years ago, one can't turn back time, there are no personal relationships anymore. Nor do Americans speak African languages, which I think is the most important way to connect with a culture, regardless of race.
 
Old 11-24-2013, 01:15 PM
 
Location: San Diego, California Republic
16,439 posts, read 22,387,220 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Some AA's can at least have their dominant ethnic origin (e.g. Yoruba) determined via DNA analysis. With us whites that won't work, our African ancestry dates too far back But even if one knows that one's ancestors came from Nigeria 300 years ago, one can't turn back time, there are no personal relationships anymore. Nor do Americans speak African languages, which I think is the most important way to connect with a culture, regardless of race.
That is very much the key. Language is inextricably linked with culture.
 
Old 11-24-2013, 01:21 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
2,851 posts, read 5,593,777 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Some AA's can at least have their dominant ethnic origin (e.g. Yoruba) determined via DNA analysis. With us whites that won't work, our African ancestry dates too far back But even if one knows that one's ancestors came from Nigeria 300 years ago, one can't turn back time, there are no personal relationships anymore. Nor do Americans speak African languages, which I think is the most important way to connect with a culture, regardless of race.
I recently saw a news story that questions these analysis and finds them to be somewhat bogus. The problem is after so many generations of intermingling with other African Americans from so many different tribal groups from so many different African countries, there gets to be literally hundreds of different African ethnic groups in your blood line. (In other words your family tree becomes ridiculously huge after so many generations) It then becomes next to impossible for even the best quality analysis to determine which DNA strain is the one from your original maternal or paternal ancestor here in the U.S.

Thus when you go to different DNA analyst you're almost sure to get different answers as to where you are originally from.
 
Old 11-24-2013, 01:25 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
21,482 posts, read 19,342,369 times
Reputation: 8526
Thinking about it, I suppose the San or Bushmen are probably the closest Africans to white people. But I feel very far away from them in every way...
 
Old 11-24-2013, 01:28 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
21,482 posts, read 19,342,369 times
Reputation: 8526
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galounger View Post
I recently saw a news story that questions these analysis and finds them to be somewhat bogus. The problem is after so many generations of intermingling with other African Americans from so many different tribal groups from so many different African countries, there gets to be literally hundreds of different African ethnic groups in your blood line. (In other words your family tree becomes ridiculously huge after so many generations) It then becomes next to impossible for even the best quality analysis to determine which DNA strain is the one from your original maternal or paternal ancestor here in the U.S.

Thus when you go to different DNA analyst you're almost sure to get different answers as to where you are originally from.
Yes, I have heard that as well (which is why I wrote 'dominant'). But with many people it may not even be possible to detect such a dominant origin anymore. Maybe it is just a new business exploiting people's wish to find out more about themselves.
 
Old 11-24-2013, 01:31 PM
 
Location: The Magnolia City
8,931 posts, read 11,817,271 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
I was not criticizing blacks for wanting to be different from the dominant Anglo culture, I understand it given the history of the US. I would do the same thing.
All I am saying is that to me AA's are not African just because they look similar. There are some people like Erykah Badu who seem to be on an Africa trip, but it seems superficial and fake somehow, although I like some of her songs. I don't sense much of the African authenticity found in NE Brazil for instance.
I've already said that African Americans are not African.

What is it about her that gives you the idea that her style is fabricated? How are you so certain that she's not what she says she is?
 
Old 11-24-2013, 01:44 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
21,482 posts, read 19,342,369 times
Reputation: 8526
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
I've already said that African Americans are not African.

What is it about her that gives you the idea that her style is fabricated? How are you so certain that she's not what she says she is?
I can't put my finger on it. Her whole way just doesn't convince me. Frankly, I think I am just as African as her, but without all that Afrocentric behavior. For instance, does she know that African women are pretty conservative and would consider her lyrics vulgar and embarrassing?
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