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Old 11-25-2013, 09:46 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
2,851 posts, read 5,586,378 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Well, I personally can only take pride in what I have achieved myself, not in stuff that simply happened without my participation. I can not take pride in being white as that is no better than being another race or ethnicity (otherwise I would be a racist).
I think more specifically Afrocentrism means being proud of having origins in Africa. For African Americans we have to embrace the entire continent since most of us have no idea which particular country we are from. So for us that is no different than a white person being proud of being from Europe because they have no way of knowing if they are from Italy, France or Ireland, etc. And I do not think that white person would be racist at all.

 
Old 11-25-2013, 09:57 AM
 
Location: San Diego, California Republic
16,431 posts, read 22,344,098 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Well, I personally can only take pride in what I have achieved myself, not in stuff that simply happened without my participation. I can not take pride in being white as that is no better than being another race or ethnicity (otherwise I would be a racist).
Now I agree with this. I never understood that myself. Being black isn't something I achieved like a grade on a test or a promotion at work. I was simply born and here I was.
 
Old 11-25-2013, 11:17 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gentoo View Post
Now I agree with this. I never understood that myself. Being black isn't something I achieved like a grade on a test or a promotion at work. I was simply born and here I was.
The whole Black pride thing was started in the 60's (or before then if you consider Marcus Garvey) because prior to then Blacks were made to feel ashamed of being Black by society in general. Everything that had anything to do with being Black was put down, ridiculed, made fun of and avoided if possible (have you ever watched old movies and cartoons from back then where whites made fun of Blacks in horribly racist ways for the fun of it.)

Even alot of Blacks themselves were constantly putting down all things Black.

Some Blacks started proclaiming that they were proud to be Black despite this and it gradually spread. It was just a way of building up self esteem for a group of people that had been made to feel bad about themselves if not anything else.

I can't see how you would find anything wrong with that. Most Blacks who followed and still follow the Black pride movement were respectful of all races that showed respect to them.
 
Old 11-25-2013, 11:44 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
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They were probably just overshooting back then, which is understandable to a certain extent since black people are the only entire race that had been told and made believe again and again that they were inferior. And I guess that overshooting amounted to black racism in some cases, and also to exaggerated and in some cases absurd Afrocentrism.
 
Old 11-25-2013, 11:50 AM
 
Location: San Diego, California Republic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galounger View Post
The whole Black pride thing was started in the 60's (or before then if you consider Marcus Garvey) because prior to then Blacks were made to feel ashamed of being Black by society in general. Everything that had anything to do with being Black was put down, ridiculed, made fun of and avoided if possible (have you ever watched old movies and cartoons from back then where whites made fun of Blacks in horribly racist ways for the fun of it.)

Even alot of Blacks themselves were constantly putting down all things Black.

Some Blacks started proclaiming that they were proud to be Black despite this and it gradually spread. It was just a way of building up self esteem for a group of people that had been made to feel bad about themselves if not anything else.

I can't see how you would find anything wrong with that. Most Blacks who followed and still follow the Black pride movement were respectful of all races that showed respect to them.
Uhhhh... I don't think we're talking about exactly the same thing. Today, people, not just black people but just about everyone in the US talks about being proud as if they achieved it and their skin color is their reward. What you're talking about is...well, it's exactly how you said it. It was to build self esteem and say that being black is ok and nothing to feel inferior about. The type of "pride" many Blacks, and Latinos and Asians have today is on par with some white supremacist. It's a "we are better than everyone else" mentality and I do find something wrong with that..
 
Old 11-25-2013, 01:58 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gentoo View Post
Uhhhh... I don't think we're talking about exactly the same thing. Today, people, not just black people but just about everyone in the US talks about being proud as if they achieved it and their skin color is their reward. What you're talking about is...well, it's exactly how you said it. It was to build self esteem and say that being black is ok and nothing to feel inferior about. The type of "pride" many Blacks, and Latinos and Asians have today is on par with some white supremacist. It's a "we are better than everyone else" mentality and I do find something wrong with that..
The majority of intelligent Black people I know don't act as if they think they are superior. The afrocentrics and muslims that preach Black supremacy are a very small minority in our race.

Then you have the Black subclass who celebrate "ghetto life" and have a ghetto mentality towards life. They have an arrogance about themselves and some feel as if being Black and from the hood is the only way to go. But these people are by far and at large a group of social drop outs.

Through out the generations their families have failed to live up to the American standards of achievement so guess what, they created their own standards that are brashly counter culture and anti establishment. Recently this culture has been so glamourized and popularized by hip hop music, movies and tv that some blacks and even none blacks that are not from the under class take many of their social cues from this lifestyle (especially the young who see it as being cooler than none ghetto life). But this whole ghetto life style segment I don't think really feel they are superior. They just carry on with a lot of bravado and perceived overconfidence because that's just part of their whole facade.

Your average well educated, hard working, church going (or not) Black person does not in anyway feel superior to others. Many feel the opposite but call for racial pride as a way of convincing Blacks to do better the same way those in the 60's did.
 
Old 11-25-2013, 03:22 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post


...

Plus how do you start teaching blacks to support other blacks without some feeling (correctly) that this is a form of racism as others will be excluded for reasons of race only. The ethnically based Chinese do not need to be told to support other Chinese. They just do, and so the accusations of racism don't arise.


Do you own a business by the way? I do and my clients are mainly other black business people. I can assure you that the blacks with good corporate jobs are much better off, though there are trade-offs that not every one will accept. The black under class do not even begin to understand what starting a business is.

And despite the mythology of the wonders of the black business class under Jim Crow it is obvious that AAs as a group are much better off now than they were then, and that blacks in the North were better off than the segregated southern blacks were. Note that there were only a few "Black Wall Streets".

My advice to young blacks is to study the job market and acquire the skills and experience to be competitive. If starting up a business becomes an opportunity then they will have some skills and experience (hopefully) good credit and savings and they will be known by potential clients and suppliers. To tell them to open up a business when they cant even balance their checking account is just dooming them to failure.
If there were a lot more well run Black owned businesses in predominately Black neighborhoods no one would have to tell Blacks to support Black businesses. They would do it. Also, Blacks are the only group I know that concentrate so much on trying to capture business only from their own race. Even many Chinese will open restaurants that target all races and many start private businesses in areas like engineering and manufacturing where their customers are mostly none Chinese. Black people greatly limit ourselves by mostly concentrating on the traditional businesses we ran in the past that were for the Blacks and locating our businesses mostly in or near Black communities.


Most experts at starting sucessfull small businesses will tell everyone (white or black) what you just said. Get an education and a good job in the area your business will deal with and get plenty of years experience so you can gain some expertise to carry into your business. Ofcourse, young whites are able to get a head start and start their business sooner with all the necessary capital and expertise because many whites (and asians and others) follow in the footsteps of parents or other family members who already have successful business. For instance, working as a construction inspector I noticed many young white men start very young working for their father, uncle whatevers, construction business, quickly become a crew leader or manager there and after a short while with some help from their family start their own business.
 
Old 11-25-2013, 03:28 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
2,851 posts, read 5,586,378 times
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Here's an example of how African Americans simply adopting a let's assimilate and forget we are Black and just work hard mentality won't solve our economic woes.

Wish it would but things are more complicated than that economically, and culturally. I will use construction contracting as an example but could have just as easily used general manufacturing, engineering, franchising, software development or a number of other areas.

I've observed whites enjoy many advantages in the multi million dollar world of construction contractors that Blacks don't realize such as:

1. In my area many whites business owners own very large farms or tracts of forest land that they frequently get security deeds against in order to obtain large bank loans which they pay back when convenient. In this way they keep a good cash flow going and avoid not paying off debts on time. Having this land also helps them put up the huge bonds that are necessary to get some big contracting jobs. Many of them inherited this land which has been in their family for a long time. Many families acquired this back when we were too busy picking cotton as either slaves or very oppressed share croppers and most Black farmers over the years lost their land due to unfair lending practices. It is what it is.

2. Many white contractors have been in the construction contracting business for generations like I said earlier. Over the decades they have gained expertise that will win them contracts that most blacks as new comers are not going to have right off the bat. In construction like in most other industries they have a giant head start on us. Over the years they have formed close relationships with the State and other customers that is pretty solid by now.

3. It's not what you know it's who you know. I can relate to you the story of a Black contractor who was very very good and did work for the State DOT and everyone enjoyed working with him. However, if he were to have screwed up or missed a deadline he would have been severely fined. Another very large white owned contractor that inspectors hated to work with because they did shoddy work and missed deadlines alot would always get away with this because they had important connections in the State capital that they
could call on. No Black owned contractor (they were all small) had those kinds of connections.

4. The part above about Black farmers having been forced out of business plays another important role. See, many whites in the South get into heavy construction because they gained extensive knowledge about operating heavy equipment and construction on their farms. Most Blacks don't have this knowledge or if they have jobs as equipment operators only have limited knowledge so heavy construction contracting just becomes one more of the very lucrative enterprises we are very under represented in.


You see I could go on for several more pages listing how historical injustice has made it more difficult for us to get into and succeed in many industries. (Like why we are so incredibly underrepresented in Silicon Valley which is a financial behemoth. Believe me, it's because of a lot more than just education).

This is what the posters that just keep repeating that Blacks need to just be American and work hard aren't seeing. We could close our eyes and pretend that all is fair and equal and most white people would love us for doing that. But numbers 1. thru 4. would still be there holding us back. and a whole lot of other numbers that have nothing to do with how much of a colorblind "can we all just get along" attitude we carry with us.

Last edited by Galounger; 11-25-2013 at 03:44 PM..
 
Old 11-25-2013, 04:32 PM
 
Location: The Magnolia City
8,931 posts, read 11,794,667 times
Reputation: 4853
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gentoo View Post
Uhhhh... I don't think we're talking about exactly the same thing. Today, people, not just black people but just about everyone in the US talks about being proud as if they achieved it and their skin color is their reward. What you're talking about is...well, it's exactly how you said it. It was to build self esteem and say that being black is ok and nothing to feel inferior about. The type of "pride" many Blacks, and Latinos and Asians have today is on par with some white supremacist. It's a "we are better than everyone else" mentality and I do find something wrong with that..
Okay, well, they're obviously not who Galounger and I are talking about. As I clearly already stated, Black pride = / = Black supremacy. They're two different mindsets with their own distinct meanings.

That someone should only take pride in what they willfully achieved is one of the silliest things I've heard in a while. Being black is MORE than just "ok". It's great, and it isn't something I'd trade for all of the money in the world.

For you and Neuling, Black may just be a skin color. Just understand that for many of the rest of us, it means so much more.

Last edited by Nairobi; 11-25-2013 at 04:43 PM..
 
Old 11-25-2013, 06:09 PM
 
56,511 posts, read 80,803,243 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonez765 View Post
aframs have no real roots to afrika. most blacks are between 20 to 30% european, and add to that, their culture is mostly the slave culture they developed when they were slaves.
BlackDemographics.com | African American DNA
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