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Old 01-18-2014, 10:37 PM
 
Location: San Diego, California Republic
16,435 posts, read 22,358,107 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MelismaticEchoes View Post
Caucasoid is an arbitrary parameter created in the 19th century. It is a residue, an anachronism. Two people can be 'Caucasoid' and not be closely related. Craniofacial plasticity is much more variable than was originally thought, so racial claims on craniofacial parameters are foolish. In microcosms, you might be able to show some relationship, but in global macrocosms, there are more mistakes than accuracy. Polytopicity is when two different groups of organisms that are not related end up having similar traits.

More like, if they are in similar environments, common factors may play a role in similar attributes. For example people in the circum Sahara developed thinner noses overall because of the dryer, hotter air. In Europe the colder dryer air had a similar effect. When we see broader features, they tend to be more recent migrations to dryer regions from more humid climates. Of course other factors can come into play as well. For example Neanderthals had wide nasal cavities but a very long nose that did a similar function to a thin nose. Clothing has played a huge role in allowing people with certain traits to migrate to regions they did not do so well in naked.

Humanity is infinitely diverse and a beautiful thing. We are playdoh to the environment. And now we change the environment to us.
You're talking about convergent evolution.

 
Old 01-22-2014, 03:18 PM
 
47 posts, read 73,990 times
Reputation: 61
Afro-Americans are not monolithic: we are not an ethnicity, we are a nation within a nation. people are CLEARLY ignorant about us. PLEASE study the history of this nation! stupid is not cute.
 
Old 01-29-2014, 04:39 PM
 
284 posts, read 353,129 times
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I was born in Africa, in what is now Zimbabwe, and lived there up to the age of twenty. My daughter was born there and has lived there all her life with her family, she is in her 40's. I have stayed in contact with her and my son has been out to visit her for five weeks a few years ago. I still speak a few words of Shona.

I think all this qualifies me to call myself "African American", although I am white. (There are lots of white people in Africa, in case you had not thought about that.)

I find it odd that people who have never been within 3,000 miles of Africa, know nothing about the continent, and whose families have lived for several generations away from Africa, call themselves African American just because they have dark skin.
 
Old 01-29-2014, 08:08 PM
 
98 posts, read 92,864 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geezerrunner View Post
I was born in Africa, in what is now Zimbabwe, and lived there up to the age of twenty. My daughter was born there and has lived there all her life with her family, she is in her 40's. I have stayed in contact with her and my son has been out to visit her for five weeks a few years ago. I still speak a few words of Shona.

I think all this qualifies me to call myself "African American", although I am white. (There are lots of white people in Africa, in case you had not thought about that.)

I find it odd that people who have never been within 3,000 miles of Africa, know nothing about the continent, and whose families have lived for several generations away from Africa, call themselves African American just because they have dark skin.
I think you're confusing African-American with being born in Africa and immigrating to the United States. African-American in the United States refers only to those of Sub-Saharan decent, which you aren't included in so thus you're not an African American nor would your family living in South Africa qualify you to call yourself African-American. The sheer ignorance of that idea is offensive, and your last paragraph I am sure is super offensive to some African Americans seeing as their ancestors were unfairly enslaved in this country and striped away from their original homeland. They had no choice other then to be separated from Africa for generations.
 
Old 01-30-2014, 07:33 AM
 
Location: North America
5,936 posts, read 4,668,631 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geezerrunner View Post
I was born in Africa, in what is now Zimbabwe, and lived there up to the age of twenty. My daughter was born there and has lived there all her life with her family, she is in her 40's. I have stayed in contact with her and my son has been out to visit her for five weeks a few years ago. I still speak a few words of Shona.

I think all this qualifies me to call myself "African American", although I am white. (There are lots of white people in Africa, in case you had not thought about that.)

I find it odd that people who have never been within 3,000 miles of Africa, know nothing about the continent, and whose families have lived for several generations away from Africa, call themselves African American just because they have dark skin.
Good post.

Many Americans would be shocked to learn that to a black African an "African-American" is known as an "American".
 
Old 01-31-2014, 07:29 AM
 
Location: San Diego, California Republic
16,435 posts, read 22,358,107 times
Reputation: 8625
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geezerrunner View Post
I was born in Africa, in what is now Zimbabwe, and lived there up to the age of twenty. My daughter was born there and has lived there all her life with her family, she is in her 40's. I have stayed in contact with her and my son has been out to visit her for five weeks a few years ago. I still speak a few words of Shona.

I think all this qualifies me to call myself "African American", although I am white. (There are lots of white people in Africa, in case you had not thought about that.)

I find it odd that people who have never been within 3,000 miles of Africa, know nothing about the continent, and whose families have lived for several generations away from Africa, call themselves African American just because they have dark skin.
Which is why I generally use Black American. I've no connection to Africa for the very reasons you stated.
 
Old 01-31-2014, 07:45 AM
 
20,126 posts, read 11,157,514 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gentoo View Post
Which is why I generally use Black American. I've no connection to Africa for the very reasons you stated.
I would agree that "African-American" is problematical, and I generally refer to myself as "black."

But I'd also note that persons born in America who are of African genetic descent had to fight long and hard to be considered "Americans." Historically, merely being born in America did not make us "American." When I say "historically," I'm including all of history up to the election of Barack Obama.

When I was a child, conservative white America made it very clear to me that I was not part of their culture, certainly not part of their ethnic group (not withstanding the fact that I had at least a great-great-great grandfather who was).

Now, suddenly, conservative white Americans want the people they had always rejected from their "American" culture to begin calling themselves plain "American."

The idea of the non-hypenated "American" was originally a purely Progressive idea, first espoused nationally by Teddy Roosevelt (the leader of the Progressive Party in the early 1900s). Conservatives have been opposed to the non-hyphenated "American" all the way up to the election of Obama.
 
Old 02-02-2014, 07:53 AM
 
1,181 posts, read 2,583,327 times
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Personally I dopn't care what any group wishes to call themselves, but traditionally, terms such as "Irish-American," "Greek American," "Arab Americans," etc. have referred to the first few generations only and not to those that have been in the country for many many generations.

That said, if black Americans prefer to be called African Americans, that should be what they are called. It's just good manners to do so. And no one is hurt by it. But, at the same time, anyone born in an African country (sub Saharan, non-Arab countries) could also legitimately call themselves African American. And they should have the same right to do so.
 
Old 02-02-2014, 10:37 AM
 
Location: San Diego, California Republic
16,435 posts, read 22,358,107 times
Reputation: 8625
Here's what I learned reading the last page of this thread:

Racial experiences vary by region as I have mentioned a while back in this thread. However, it also varies with the generation. For many people over the age of 50, racism seems to be alive and well. Between about 30 and 50 it's somewhat there depending on where you are and it's worth it to move forward rather than look back. For people under 30, they think the rest of us are complete lunatics for making such a big deal out of it at all regardless what race they are. I would say to my generation, the one in the middle, keep moving forward. For the younger generation, try not to be so dismissive and to the older generation, don't try and shove your experiences down everyone else's throats. Those are your battles, not ours. We have our own issues to deal with.
 
Old 02-02-2014, 02:42 PM
 
20,126 posts, read 11,157,514 times
Reputation: 20153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gentoo View Post
Here's what I learned reading the last page of this thread:

Racial experiences vary by region as I have mentioned a while back in this thread. However, it also varies with the generation. For many people over the age of 50, racism seems to be alive and well. Between about 30 and 50 it's somewhat there depending on where you are and it's worth it to move forward rather than look back. For people under 30, they think the rest of us are complete lunatics for making such a big deal out of it at all regardless what race they are. I would say to my generation, the one in the middle, keep moving forward. For the younger generation, try not to be so dismissive and to the older generation, don't try and shove your experiences down everyone else's throats. Those are your battles, not ours. We have our own issues to deal with.
I'd agree, but I'd remind you of something: People over the age of 50 are still in control of politics and industry in the US. So our racism and fear of racism are still the controlling policies of politics and industry in the US.

Younger people--especially Millennials--have to understand and deal with the fact that they are still being effected by racism that they don't personally accept, and will until they themselves are in control of politics and industry--another 25 to 30 years...when the Boomer generation is dead.
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