U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Africa
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 08-30-2013, 08:23 PM
 
Location: Chicago area
1,105 posts, read 2,912,995 times
Reputation: 2106

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by WildWestDude View Post
European music with all its complexity is thousands of years old! Can complex music forms be claimed by sub-Saharan Africa? I doubt it.
Of course it can. That's not even debatable.

 
Old 08-30-2013, 10:24 PM
 
Location: The Magnolia City
8,931 posts, read 11,804,913 times
Reputation: 4853
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gentoo View Post
Black Americans of course use western music theory, developed in Europe to write music. However, the rhythmic patterns did not exist prior to their introduction by us Black Americans. Think of the older forms of music prior to the 19th century. All modern music genres are basically evolved blues rhythms and riffs. Rhythms that were African built on western music theory.

Now if you look at my previous posts, you'll see that I'm not one to attempt to make it look like we are very African. We are today, a western people as much as that pains some to read. However, our African roots, if they've left their mark anywhere, it's on western music.
I mostly agree, but the extent to which we are a Western people is arguable. The influence of Western customs alone varies greatly from person to person.

"The Western World" is defined by its European influence, and that hardly begins to explain who we are as an ethnic group.
 
Old 08-31-2013, 12:32 AM
 
6,564 posts, read 9,074,058 times
Reputation: 2837
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizita View Post

African Americans generally don't look very African at all.
Depends. First keep in mind that across Africa you can find a wide range of looks with black Africans. Because of the mixture with black Americans as whole we can look similar to many of the Africans around the continent and not just west Africans. You can find Black Americans who look Ghanaian,Southern African,Ethiopian and Somalian.

Quote:
I used to have a relationship with a guy from Uganda and there is no way in hell he would be mistaken for African American.
Just to point out you were dating a Ugandan. Black-Americans are mainly coastal west and central African descendant. So our African looks would be more reflective of Africans from those countries(Senegal to Angola).

Last edited by Motion; 08-31-2013 at 01:09 AM..
 
Old 08-31-2013, 02:00 AM
 
Location: San Diego, California Republic
16,438 posts, read 22,364,799 times
Reputation: 8625
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
I mostly agree, but the extent to which we are a Western people is arguable. The influence of Western customs alone varies greatly from person to person.

"The Western World" is defined by its European influence, and that hardly begins to explain who we are as an ethnic group.
I understand what you're saying and after reading your post, I respect your position even if I don't quite agree.

The reasons I claim we are a western people are due to things like religion. The majority of Black Americans follow some sort of Protestantism, a very European, a northern and western European thing at that. We belong to the Anglosphere linguistically. Another western trait. We have adopted the system of law and order from western society. Many blacks claim history of kings and queens but, so do Europeans. In fact, our understanding of those words is in a western European/ Germanic point of view. Our cooking too. You couldn't get the vast majority of Black American to eat many of the things people in Africa eat. A lot of Black Americans don't even like their steaks rare. Almost all of our customs and ways of doing things would make us stand out like a sore thumb if we were planted in Africa.
 
Old 08-31-2013, 12:30 PM
 
Location: City of North Las Vegas, NV
11,290 posts, read 7,879,581 times
Reputation: 3019
[quote=Lizita;31209784]Of course it can. That's not even debatable.[/QUOT
If you are to go back in time, you will find in Africa drums and sticks and in Europe complex forms of music and instruments
 
Old 08-31-2013, 12:58 PM
 
Location: The Magnolia City
8,931 posts, read 11,804,913 times
Reputation: 4853
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gentoo View Post
I understand what you're saying and after reading your post, I respect your position even if I don't quite agree.

The reasons I claim we are a western people are due to things like religion. The majority of Black Americans follow some sort of Protestantism, a very European, a northern and western European thing at that. We belong to the Anglosphere linguistically. Another western trait. We have adopted the system of law and order from western society. Many blacks claim history of kings and queens but, so do Europeans. In fact, our understanding of those words is in a western European/ Germanic point of view. Our cooking too. You couldn't get the vast majority of Black American to eat many of the things people in Africa eat. A lot of Black Americans don't even like their steaks rare. Almost all of our customs and ways of doing things would make us stand out like a sore thumb if we were planted in Africa.
All very valid points, and I agree that we are a western people, but only in part.

"Africa" is what makes all the difference between your typical white and black American. The way we sing, the way we dance and have church, the way we dress, eat, and even the way we do our hair.
 
Old 08-31-2013, 01:07 PM
 
9,441 posts, read 10,191,639 times
Reputation: 7183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gentoo View Post
You had me until the bold part. The tonic is the first and dominant the fifth. The two cords only coencide when the tonic is played, the dominant is the fifth note but the tonic does not occur in the dominant chord. For example, the C major chord the notes are C, E and G. G is the dominant in that scale. However play the dominant chord in that scale, G major, the notes are G, B and D. D is the dominant of G and can be played in C major as a secondary dominant. Cee Lo Green's song "F you" does exactly that.

Also, flattening the 5th, 3rd and 7th just makes the major scale a minor scale. A natural minor scale and that was not invented by us. in C major the E becomes E flat, the A an A flat and the B a B flat to make it C minor. However, harmonic minors raise the 7th in a minor scale (called subdominant) a half step to make it a leading tone again just like a major scale. When playing a dominant chord in a minor scale, it's almost always made harmonic (therefore making what would be a minor chord a major chord. That's the dominant 5th.

What black musician have done is created what's called a "Blues Scale". Still based on western music theory but is made especially for jazz and blues.

It's funny you mentioned Country music. Country actually sounds like it does due to black influences also. the Banjo was invented by slaves and the way the violin is fiddled was also black influenced.
"The domninate chord" and "a dominate chord" are two diffrent things. The flated notes. are added to the "major scale" tonality. That means those notes from the western minor scale are used against the major scale. In eastern music (africa) there is no major or minor scale.
All music can be reduced down to the "Elements of Music" the slave applied these elements the same way Africans applied them.
 
Old 08-31-2013, 01:30 PM
 
Location: San Diego, California Republic
16,438 posts, read 22,364,799 times
Reputation: 8625
Quote:
Originally Posted by thriftylefty View Post
"The domninate chord" and "a dominate chord" are two diffrent things. The flated notes. are added to the "major scale" tonality. That means those notes from the western minor scale are used against the major scale. In eastern music (africa) there is no major or minor scale.
All music can be reduced down to the "Elements of Music" the slave applied these elements the same way Africans applied them.
if those notes are flattened in a major scale that's based on a western music theory scale, it's a minor scale regardless if one chooses to acknowledge the name. if the E, A and B are flattened in C major, then the C minor scale is what's created and is the relative minor of E flat major, just as C major is the relative major of A minor.
 
Old 08-31-2013, 03:34 PM
 
9,441 posts, read 10,191,639 times
Reputation: 7183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gentoo View Post
if those notes are flattened in a major scale that's based on a western music theory scale, it's a minor scale regardless if one chooses to acknowledge the name. if the E, A and B are flattened in C major, then the C minor scale is what's created and is the relative minor of E flat major, just as C major is the relative major of A minor.
Scale and tonality are not the same thing. These notes are not just added to the scale. They don't replace diatonic notes. They are used in addtion to the diatonic note. Slaves were trying to replicate African scales, which are not based on whole notes and half notes. Slaves were using quarter and semi-tone scales.
The scale : C Eb F Gb G Bb B C , is not based on a major or minor scale. Its more of a Raga. Music Theory is just a language to discribe a tonal sequence or occurrance, It does not make it western if it can be explained using western music theory.
 
Old 08-31-2013, 04:19 PM
 
Location: San Diego, California Republic
16,438 posts, read 22,364,799 times
Reputation: 8625
Quote:
Originally Posted by thriftylefty View Post
Scale and tonality are not the same thing. These notes are not just added to the scale. They don't replace diatonic notes. They are used in addtion to the diatonic note. Slaves were trying to replicate African scales, which are not based on whole notes and half notes. Slaves were using quarter and semi-tone scales.
The scale : C Eb F Gb G Bb B C , is not based on a major or minor scale. Its more of a Raga. Music Theory is just a language to discribe a tonal sequence or occurrance, It does not make it western if it can be explained using western music theory.
I understand scales and tonality aren't the same thing. Please.

Now that that's out of the way, I completely misunderstood what you were saying before. Yes there are scales invented by blacks. The blues scale being one of them. Of the notes you mentioned above, I just played a chord containing C, Eb, F and Ab. That's a cool sound and im going to find a way to use it. I Think it may be some add9 chord.

My point earlier is that Black Americans have left our mark on modern western music, generally combining rhythms with the western music rules. Black musicians tend to like to use a lot of 7th chords frequently. I make dance music and even I have a strong tendency to rely on dominant 7th and at times major 7th chords. I also like diminished chords. The frequency of 7th chords is highly characteristic in jazz music and the blues scale contains a lot of 7th chords.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Africa
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top