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Old 08-17-2013, 09:47 PM
 
Location: Striving for Avalon
1,424 posts, read 2,096,358 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Yeah , well guess what. Maybe people with western educations are also better prepped to do everything else, too, like cognitive thinking and analytical problem solving and logical evaluation of ideas (which masquerade as "intelligence") and leading a nation into the 21st Century global economic fabric.

Maybe Asians only seem more intelligent because someone has taken the trouble to "prep" them to do the kinds of things that reflect the normal human intelligence they were born with.

Now, how do we use this sudden epiphany to kick start African countries? By training a lot of prospective lawyers to wear neckties into air conditioned offices to write laws concerning banking and property rights?
If there were an easy answer, someone from the development community would be on it. Of course, your wording has collectivized Africa and African "problems," a common flaw among non-Africans.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
No it isn't,, although that might be a factor, it is not the biggest one. The biggest factor is that the IQ of East Asians is about 20 points higher than Africans. The post-colonial period in Asia had thousands of years of intellectual and technological culture to fall back on, with a literate population already in place that had generations of experience in systematic science and philosophy.

Today's population of East Asia ia a product of peoples whose cultural survival was subject to the selection of those with the intellectual skills of technology, philosophy and literature, and the present day makeup of Africans was not. This does not say that Africans are "inferior", but only that thousands of years of evolution have not placed pressure on Africans to evolve through natural selection the skillsets that are currently found useful in the industrialized world. It was easier to survive in Africa without solving complex struggles against the environment, so more people did survive and carry on the gene pool without those talents. Which is why cold barren climates selected for more techno-genes than hot lush ones.

Before you start to scream that only a racist could think that, why would American "racists" devise and norm IQ tests so that East Asians would perform so much better than the biased and racially-preferred Caucasians? Geographically isolated cultures evolved different intellectualities according to the exigencies faced for survival , and a couple of centuries of colonialism is not enough to undo that-- it's not about race.
For all of your cleansing/distancing yourself from accusations of racism (in a Pilate-esque manner), this still reeks of the colonial attitude that "the unfortunate Negro imbeciles need our benevolent white governance & Providence." And your talk of differing "intellectualities" translates into "Whites and Asians build civilisations. Blacks are incapable spear chuckers." This is basically what you're trying to sell. I won't buy it.

As for East Asian performance, collective Caucasian/European memory/stereotyping of Asia has featured many negatives. Stupidity isn't one of them. If you wish to go down the "biases held" route. On the "IQ tests merely measure the quality of your Western education," consider that imported Western knowledge was grafted onto the culture of Imperial-Confucian exam preparation. Then consider that many Asians measured (within the US) are immigrants who beat the odds to arrive in the US. Comparing the exceptional with the average is a lazy assessment of statistical data. And this is only the most superficial overview.

The non-critical referral to problematic IQ data ultimately is a lazy write-off to the complex, multi-faceted issue of post-colonial development in sub-Saharan Africa. Rather than consider the effects of artificial state creation/Berlin conference, colonial governance, decolonisation processes, post-colonial governance, the exigencies of climate and economy, the distribution of resources, ethnic tension, development assistance/foreign aid, Cold War regime interference, corporate involvement, and brain drain, you've written off "Africa" and "Africans" for their intelligence.
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Old 08-17-2013, 11:11 PM
 
Location: Historic West End
4,234 posts, read 3,601,473 times
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Instead of comparing all Africa, I think it would be fairer to start with one nation and one city in Africa.
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Old 08-18-2013, 09:53 AM
 
574 posts, read 1,673,095 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motion View Post
^

Do you agree with the views of the Dambisa Moyos and the George Ayitteys that foreign aid(government to government) doesn't help the average African but just helps bad leaders to stay in power?
I dont know anything about those two people and their views; i only know the name of Dambisa Moyo cause she's been in the news a few times; ive never heard of George Ayittey.

As for aid to Africa, there really is no such thing as 'aid' in my opinion. Thats just a word Europeans use in the media to make it seem like they are helping these countries develop.

Aid is when one party gives some type of benefit to another party, and receives nothing of value in return; if anything the only thing the giving party should get from aid is the satisfaction that they are helping the receiving party. For example, if i see a woman on the side of the road with a flat tire, and i help her change that tire with no stings attached, that is aid; the only thing i really get is the satifaction of helping somebody that needed help.

However, 'aid' that Europeans give to Africa is strategic; it has strings attached and the Europeans only do it because they can get something out of it. The European is the man who saw Africa on the side of the road with a flat tire; and Africa is a fine, very attractive woman. What makes Africa beautiful is its vast natural resources. If Africa was an ugly woman (a barren wasteland with no natural resources) Europe would not have even stopped.
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Old 08-18-2013, 02:19 PM
 
Location: Maryland
18,626 posts, read 16,464,485 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdiggs1 View Post
New York City also has a larger population than several African states and has significant ethnic diversity and tensions. I don't see how this changes the fact that New York City is a CITY and African countries are COUNTRIES.
Well than there is nothing I can do for you. Singapore is a country as well. So your argument seems circular in nature.
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Old 08-18-2013, 02:23 PM
 
Location: Maryland
18,626 posts, read 16,464,485 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdiggs1 View Post
People, let's be honest, these "Asian Tigers" are nothing but European strongholds in Asia; and when I say European, I mean white. As in the white countries throw money at these places, make sure they are developed and prospering, so they can give themselves strong influence in this region where countries like China, North Korea, Indonesia, and Vietnam are threats to European hegemony.

It is the same thing with Israel. Israel is considered a developed country, but it is in a region where it is surrounded by poor countries. Do you think that is an accident? Why is Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, and Egypt poor countries, but we have this little strip of land called Israel as rich and prosperous?

Answer: white countries throw money at it, specifically the United States. Israel is nothing but the unrecognized 51st state of the US.
You sound like a typical African-American, you people think everything that occurs in the world is because of White people. You simply can't fathom that non-White people can do anything of value. Believe it or not White folks are not omnipresent. Whatever dealings modern Singapore has with Europe, America or Australia it is on its terms

As for Israel it is developed because of this little thing called IQ and a determination to build a successful country.
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Old 08-18-2013, 02:29 PM
 
Location: Allendale MI
2,532 posts, read 1,898,084 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwardA View Post
You sound like a typical African-American, you people think everything that occurs in the world is because of White people. You simply can't fathom that non-White people can do anything of value. Believe it or not White folks are not omnipresent. Whatever dealings modern Singapore has with Europe, America or Australia it is on its terms

As for Israel it is developed because of this little thing called IQ and a determination to build a successful country.
That was pretty ignorant.
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Old 08-18-2013, 02:35 PM
 
Location: Maryland
18,626 posts, read 16,464,485 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X14Freak View Post
Singapore isn't applicable in any way to African countries and the economic model would not have the same results at all. The difference between the East Asian tigers and former African colonies is that two of the tigers are former British administered trade cities and the other two are former Japanese colonies. South Korea and Taiwan were brutally ruled by Japan but unlike the European colonies, the Japanese built up an indigenous managerial and bureaucratic class (of mostly collaborators) in Korea and Taiwan. It is no coincidence that the South Korean chaebols resemble the zaibatsus from the Imperial Japanese era. None of the African colonies (with the exception of Rhodesia/Zimbabwe and South Africa) have had any degree of industrialization the way Korea and Taiwan had back in the colonial era nor did any of the European imperialists build up any kind of a political or managerial class composed of indigenous talent in their African colonies. That's the main reason why most African colonies fell apart while South Korea and Taiwan prospered. I won't go into Singapore or Hong Kong since these are port cities in strategic locations or in the case of HK the only source of trade between the mainland and the West before Deng Xiaoping enacted his reforms.
Uh huh

Gold Coast (British colony) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quote:
It was through British-style education that a new Ghanaian elite gained the means and the desire to strive for independence. During the colonial years, the country's educational institutions improved markedly. From beginnings in missionary schools, the early part of the twentieth century saw significant advances in many fields, and, although the missions continued to participate, the government steadily increased its interest and support. In 1909 the government established a technical school and a teachers' training college at Accra; several other secondary schools were set up by the missions. The government steadily increased its financial backing for the growing number of both state and mission schools. In 1948 the country opened its first center of higher learning, the University College.
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Old 08-18-2013, 02:39 PM
 
Location: Maryland
18,626 posts, read 16,464,485 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amelorn View Post
If there were an easy answer, someone from the development community would be on it. Of course, your wording has collectivized Africa and African "problems," a common flaw among non-Africans.



For all of your cleansing/distancing yourself from accusations of racism (in a Pilate-esque manner), this still reeks of the colonial attitude that "the unfortunate Negro imbeciles need our benevolent white governance & Providence." And your talk of differing "intellectualities" translates into "Whites and Asians build civilisations. Blacks are incapable spear chuckers." This is basically what you're trying to sell. I won't buy it.

As for East Asian performance, collective Caucasian/European memory/stereotyping of Asia has featured many negatives. Stupidity isn't one of them. If you wish to go down the "biases held" route. On the "IQ tests merely measure the quality of your Western education," consider that imported Western knowledge was grafted onto the culture of Imperial-Confucian exam preparation. Then consider that many Asians measured (within the US) are immigrants who beat the odds to arrive in the US. Comparing the exceptional with the average is a lazy assessment of statistical data. And this is only the most superficial overview.

The non-critical referral to problematic IQ data ultimately is a lazy write-off to the complex, multi-faceted issue of post-colonial development in sub-Saharan Africa. Rather than consider the effects of artificial state creation/Berlin conference, colonial governance, decolonisation processes, post-colonial governance, the exigencies of climate and economy, the distribution of resources, ethnic tension, development assistance/foreign aid, Cold War regime interference, corporate involvement, and brain drain, you've written off "Africa" and "Africans" for their intelligence.

Sounds like more excuses. Can you provide demonstrative evidence of African intellectual ability to counter the very real empirical evidence that on average Africans have lower IQs than East Asians and Europeans?

I love how folks love to cite this excuse or that but never offer proof to refute the initial charge.
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Old 08-18-2013, 02:42 PM
 
Location: Maryland
18,626 posts, read 16,464,485 times
Reputation: 6348
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdiggs1 View Post
I will agree that there is a lack of justice in the majority of countries on the African continent; many of these countries are ran by dictatorships masked by democracy.

However, you must realize that these African regimes are supported by white governments, mostly through the influence of European and American multinational corporations, which themselves have massive influence in the countries they are based in.

Like all corporations, their main objective is profit over everything else; thus when you have a large corporation with mass influence in an African country, the needs of the people get overlooked. The corporations support rogue regimes, and in return the rogue regimes make sure the laws favor big business.

If things get too out of hand in the African country, and rebellion occurs, the multinational corporation(s) can use their influence back home to get their army to come in and quell rebellion; that is what recently happened in Mali when France sent troops into that country to quell the tuareg rebellions, the tuaregs being a group of people who claim that the Mali government has not been meeting their needs and ignoring their concerns.

My main point: Africa is a continent rich in natural resources; this is true. But because of the current nature of business, the wealth of the continent mostly ends up in the coffers of white capitalists, and their African counterparts who help them to keep control of African resources.

Africa is poor as it is for a reason, and The white countries and white controlled cities like Singapore are as rich as they are for a reason.
So basically African leaders are easily corrupted by Europeans to thwart the development of their own countries. The world is a giant game theory and Africans simply aren't equipped to play the game evidently.
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Old 08-18-2013, 05:09 PM
 
574 posts, read 1,673,095 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edwarda View Post
well than there is nothing i can do for you. Singapore is a country as well. So your argument seems circular in nature.
ok.
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