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Old 11-01-2013, 01:15 PM
 
3,501 posts, read 2,511,798 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MelismaticEchoes View Post
Technically the Olmecs weren't Mexicans as the concept of Mexico as a nation developed on much later.

Are you Mexican descent?

No, just a white boy who likes truth. Irish, Italian, Polish, Swedish, German and English. The (poorly spelled) Spanish named "Cachibatches" comes from my girl, who is Peruvian.

The funny thing about our "Saxon" pal there is that he didn't bother to read that I actually quite like African history. Roman, African, Mexican and Peruvian ancient/medieval are my favorites, although I am also into Greece, Persia, and am starting to develop a greater appreciation for India and China. All of that being said, I would not tolerate it if some came out and said that the Romans colonized the New World either. I am not a culture vulture.

Point taken. I said "Mexican" as a form or short hand. In actuality, it is not even a later construct, but a completely different people, as the "Mexica" is the correct name for what we call the "Aztecs."
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Old 11-04-2013, 11:46 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
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Africans were civilized long, long, long, long, long before Europeans had any type of civilization.

Africans were the ones responsible for teaching the Europeans everything they knows from math, science, classical music and medicine.

Remember the black African Moors who conquered Europe during their dark ages from 700 AD to 1400 AD?

The primitive Africans you see today in Africa are the result of the invasions of outsiders who took away their education and drove them from their homelands where many lost their ability to read or write.

The primitive Africans are what they BECAME, not how they once started.
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Old 11-04-2013, 11:49 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
3,441 posts, read 5,002,913 times
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Besides, the first two people on the planet were blacks and whites were derived from black DNA.

Everyone's Y chromosome goes back to black Africa.
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Old 11-04-2013, 02:21 PM
 
3,501 posts, read 2,511,798 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Jack22 View Post
Africans were civilized long, long, long, long, long before Europeans had any type of civilization.

Africans were the ones responsible for teaching the Europeans everything they knows from math, science, classical music and medicine.

Remember the black African Moors who conquered Europe during their dark ages from 700 AD to 1400 AD?

The primitive Africans you see today in Africa are the result of the invasions of outsiders who took away their education and drove them from their homelands where many lost their ability to read or write.

The primitive Africans are what they BECAME, not how they once started.
To some extent true, but badly overstated and misrepresented.

A) You are talking about the "Black Athena," "Stolen Legacy" myth, which is just that, a myth. Having thoroughly read black Athena Volume 1 and investigating Bernal's claims, he uses NOT A SINGLE CREDIBLE SOURCE. He mostly quotes classical Greek and Roman sources, but nothing Egyptian. These are not viable evidences- Herodotus could neither speak nor read Egyptian and lived when the glory days of Egypt were long gone. The Hermes Trsimegetos writings are similarly young, as is the Roman novel the golden ass.

B) It is not hard to understand why the Greeks and Romans wanted to tie themselves to the Egyptians- IT IS THE SAME REASON THAT MODERN AFROCENTRICS DO. They saw the big buildings and wanted to be connected to the people who built them. But there is no actual Egyptian texts that would imply that Egyptians were responsible for Greek learning, and indeed, the Egyptian mathematic system was known to be extremely clumsy- far inferior to the that of the Greek. There is no Egyptian precedent for Euclidean geometry, Platonic philosophy, etc. It simply does not exist.

C) Whiles Black Athena volume one is generally considered a good, fun read, volumes 2 and 3 are generally considered to be incompetent pseudo-linguistics and archeology, and I have not even been able to find them.

D) The Greeks did learn about art and architecture from the Egyptians. Anything other than that before they took off an made their own vast contributions to world culture was primarily learned from the East during the "Orientalizing Period." I would even give Egyptians credit for the third Greek alphabet, the one they used during the Classical era, since it was derived from Phoenician, which in turn was derived from Egyptian. that brings me to my next point:

F) The idea of Africa being "far, far older" than Europe is part true and part myth. In a sense, it is to be expected because the Indo-Europeans did not even arrive to Europe until relatively recently. That being said there are extremely ancient cultures in Europe, including the La Vinca culture, the Minoan, the Mycenaean, and whoever built the temples on Malta (they pre-date the pyramids by a thousand years). the original alphabet of the Greeks was Linear A, which had yet to be deciphered. The Minoans appear to be an Indo-Anatolian people, cousins to the Indo-Europeans.

G) But lets be honest here. when you talk about "Africa" being older, you are not talking about west Africa, which I very much love, but the glory days of which came in what we call the Middle Ages. You are talking about Egypt, which had very little to do with you (I am making the assumption that you are African American here). They lived 1500 miles from your ancestors, they had mostly demonstrably lighter skin and finer features, they had almost no cultural influence on your ancestors, they had north African Phenotypes and were already heavily Eurasian admixed from back migrations in the Paleolithic and Neolithic eras.

H) It is degrading to your real ancestors to try and uncritically lump Egyptians and West Africans together as "Africans," as they influenced each other in almost no way. It is a word game. I as a white person can speak volume son the direct influence of Greece and Rome on my culture and blood lines. No such connection exists between West Africa and Classical Egypt. If so, then why are you trying to co-opt European culture? Where are the West African pyramids and hieroglyphics that are proof that Egypt is connected to the rest of Africa? Why is it that the Greek have the accomplishments that you are trying to co-opt?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Jack22 View Post
Besides, the first two people on the planet were blacks and whites were derived from black DNA.

Everyone's Y chromosome goes back to black Africa.
Actually, we don't know the color of the original African migrants. "Black" may very well be a later adaptation.
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Old 02-28-2014, 08:09 PM
 
10 posts, read 45,429 times
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Default This conversation is almost senseless...

I think the true history of Africa is finally coming to the fore. One hundred years ago, heck, even 50 years ago anyone would have laughed at anyone claiming Africa as the birth of all humans. But today it's universally accepted. Keep in mind here that the Nation of Islam has been speaking of the black root of man for a very long time and now - TADA! - there is a consensus on Mitochondrial Eve. I am just sitting back with some popcorn and waiting for all the new, delicious developments on Africa which are SURE to come. (Not a subscriber to ANY religion whatsoever)

And on Egypt...you guys must be looking at forgeries because all the authentic Egyptian artifacts clearly show negro people. Notwithstanding the later empires - after invaders such as the Greeks, Romans and others stepped in.

Here is a great video regarding those forgeries. It gets really interesting in the middle.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBsnZYZCK_w

Here is a great video on the shared origin of Egyptians to other Africans.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZnmOM057Rc

And here is DNA evidence of King Tut and Ramses the III which clearly links them to central Africa, southern Africa and even west African. I personally did not need DNA evidence as it is obvious to me Ancient Egyptians were culturally and physically African whereas modern Egyptians are culturally Arab and in part physically so.
http://www.dnatribes.com/dnatribes-d...2012-01-01.pdf
http://www.dnatribes.com/dnatribes-d...2013-02-01.pdf

Here is a video or REAL ancient Egyptian artifacts just for fun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gs0I...ad6dA&index=61
Oh, and the epicanthic eye fold is ALL OVER AFRICA...East, West, South, Central....I have seen enough pictures and real life Africans to know it. There are over 3,000 tribes in African and over 2,000 languages spoken...yet people are always looking outside...always assigning Africa foreign influences. This is sometimes true, but many times not. People accept the leading evolutionary Out of Africa Theory, but then they leave off when it comes to culture and civilization. You accept A but then reject everything in between to Z. Silly.
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Old 02-28-2014, 11:27 PM
 
3,501 posts, read 2,511,798 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WanderLust3 View Post
I think the true history of Africa is finally coming to the fore. One hundred years ago, heck, even 50 years ago anyone would have laughed at anyone claiming Africa as the birth of all humans. But today it's universally accepted. Keep in mind here that the Nation of Islam has been speaking of the black root of man for a very long time and now - TADA! - there is a consensus on Mitochondrial Eve. I am just sitting back with some popcorn and waiting for all the new, delicious developments on Africa which are SURE to come. (Not a subscriber to ANY religion whatsoever)

And on Egypt...you guys must be looking at forgeries because all the authentic Egyptian artifacts clearly show negro people. Notwithstanding the later empires - after invaders such as the Greeks, Romans and others stepped in.

Here is a great video regarding those forgeries. It gets really interesting in the middle.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBsnZYZCK_w

Here is a great video on the shared origin of Egyptians to other Africans.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZnmOM057Rc

And here is DNA evidence of King Tut and Ramses the III which clearly links them to central Africa, southern Africa and even west African. I personally did not need DNA evidence as it is obvious to me Ancient Egyptians were culturally and physically African whereas modern Egyptians are culturally Arab and in part physically so.
http://www.dnatribes.com/dnatribes-d...2012-01-01.pdf
http://www.dnatribes.com/dnatribes-d...2013-02-01.pdf

Here is a video or REAL ancient Egyptian artifacts just for fun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gs0I...ad6dA&index=61
Oh, and the epicanthic eye fold is ALL OVER AFRICA...East, West, South, Central....I have seen enough pictures and real life Africans to know it. There are over 3,000 tribes in African and over 2,000 languages spoken...yet people are always looking outside...always assigning Africa foreign influences. This is sometimes true, but many times not. People accept the leading evolutionary Out of Africa Theory, but then they leave off when it comes to culture and civilization. You accept A but then reject everything in between to Z. Silly.
No, no they weren't scientists are unanimous that they were a mixed race in all historic times, and are still largely the same people. They were never primarily "black." Though there was certainly "black" in the mix, they were largely comprised of:

A) Eurasians who back-migrated in pre-historic times.

B) North Africans who phenotypically look Eurasian because they evolved on similar latitudes.

Because I am aloud to post a "snippet," I will even go ahead and let you know what the scientists conclude. You are posting evidence from advocationists:

Mitochondrial DNA Sequence Diversity in a Sedentary Population from Egypt - Stevanovitch - 2004 - Annals of Human Genetics - Wiley Online Library

Population history of North Africa: Evidence from classical genetic markers - Tags: HUMAN population genetics

Near eastern neolithic genetic input in ... [Am J Phys Anthropol. 2009] - PubMed - NCBI

The Levant versus the Horn of Africa: Evidence for Bidirectional Corridors of Human Migrations

PLOS Genetics: Genomic Ancestry of North Africans Supports Back-to-Africa Migrations

Y-chromosome analysis in Egypt suggests a genetic r... [Hum Biol. 2002] - PubMed - NCBI

Mitochondrial DNA structure in North Africa reveals a genetic discontinuity in the Nile Valley - Fadhlaoui-Zid - 2011 - American Journal of Physical Anthropology - Wiley Online Library

PLOS ONE: North African Populations Carry the Signature of Admixture with Neandertals


PROOF Modern Egyptians descend from Ancient Egyptians - YouTube


Who were the ancient Egyptians? Dental a... [Am J Phys Anthropol. 2006] - PubMed - NCBI


mtDNA analysis in ancient Nubians suppo... [Ann Hum Biol. 1997 May-Jun] - PubMed - NCBI

mtDNA analysis of Nile River Valley populatio... [Am J Hum Genet. 1999] - PubMed - NCBI


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11006048

Clines and clusters versus


The questionable contribution of the Neolithic and the Bronze Age to European craniofacial form


Shomarka Omar Keita: What Genetics Can Tell Us (EGYPT) - YouTube


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1216069/?tool=pmcentrez[/SIZE]

Thus, we propose that the Neolithic transitionin this part of the world was accompanied by demic diffusion ofAfro-Asiatic–speaking pastoralists from the Middle East.

BMC Genetics | Full text | Mitochondrial DNA transit between West Asia and North Africa inferred from U6 phylogeography

suggested a West Asian origin for theautochthonous North African lineage U6.

The mtDNA Legacy of the Levantine Early Upper Palaeolithic in Africa

that allowed humans to enter the Levant, openingthe way to the colonization of both Europe and North Africa

European Journal of Human Genetics - Abstract of article: Human Y chromosome haplogroup R-V88: a paternal genetic record of early mid Holocene trans-Saharan connections and the spread of Chadic languages

) may have been carried to Africa by anAsia-to-Africa back migration in prehistoric times.

The complex and diversified mitochondrial gene... [Ann Hum Genet. 2009] - PubMed - NCBI[/

Ourfindings show that the Berber mitochondrial pool is characterized by an overallhigh frequency of Western Eurasian haplogroups...

PLOS ONE: Introducing the Algerian Mitochondrial DNA and Y-Chromosome Profiles into the North African Landscape

From the beginning, a prominent mtDNAEuroasiatic genetic component was observed in the Northern areas occupied byMorocco [5] and Egypt [6],

The questionable contribution of the Neolithic and the Bronze Age to European craniofacial form

and recent human craniofacial dimensions supports thepicture documented by genetics that the extension of Neolithic agriculture fromthe Near East westward to Europe and across North Africawas accomplished by a process of demic diffusion (11–15)....





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Old 02-28-2014, 11:55 PM
 
3,501 posts, read 2,511,798 times
Reputation: 6772
Quote:
Originally Posted by WanderLust3 View Post
I think the true history of Africa is finally coming to the fore. One hundred years ago, heck, even 50 years ago anyone would have laughed at anyone claiming Africa as the birth of all humans. But today it's universally accepted. Keep in mind here that the Nation of Islam has been speaking of the black root of man for a very long time and now - TADA! - there is a consensus on Mitochondrial Eve. I am just sitting back with some popcorn and waiting for all the new, delicious developments on Africa which are SURE to come. (Not a subscriber to ANY religion whatsoever)
This is all irrelevant. Great things are happening in African history...its does not make the Egyptians "black" and sure does not make the Mexicans black.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WanderLust3 View Post
And on Egypt...you guys must be looking at forgeries because all the authentic Egyptian artifacts clearly show negro people.
No they don't. What you mean is that they look "negro" to you. Those of us who study real history have seen thousands of depictions and mummies. A few do looked strikingly "negro." Most do not. Nor do I, or anyone with sense, believe that artifacts are being altered on a massive level.

See post 249 . Scientists of all varieties are unanimous that the Egyptians are the same people that they always were, more or less.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WanderLust3 View Post
Notwithstanding the later empires - after invaders such as the Greeks, Romans and others stepped in.
Studies show that the Arab slave trade contributed more Sub-Saharan input to the gene pool than all of these Eurasians invasions. Regardless, they are about 90% genetically identical to what they were.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WanderLust3 View Post
Here is a great video regarding those forgeries. It gets really interesting in the middle.
Probably nonsense but totally irrelevant. The question of the race of the ancient Egyptians has been answered. Check out post 249. I have dozens more sources. These are just the easiest to understand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WanderLust3 View Post
Here is a great video on the shared origin of Egyptians to other Africans.
Please tell me where the hieroglyphic writing and pyramids are to be found in West Africa?

A short digression here...I think that West Africa has a very important history of its own, but it has no connection to ANCIENT Egypt what-so-ever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WanderLust3 View Post
And here is DNA evidence of King Tut and Ramses the III which clearly links them to central Africa, southern Africa and even west African.
No, it is both irrelevant and falsified, as we will show below.


Quote:
Originally Posted by WanderLust3 View Post
I personally did not need DNA evidence as it is obvious to me Ancient Egyptians were culturally and physically African
Of course not. You are and advocationaist who believes nonsense on its face.


Quote:
Originally Posted by WanderLust3 View Post
whereas modern Egyptians are culturally Arab and in part physically so.
No. They are a little more sub-Saharan, but almost the same.


A) Irrelevant at best, because it is a measure of a New Kingdom dynasty long suspected of being Nubian, and thus has nothing to do with the first Egyptians.

B) Based on science by the Journal Of American Medicine which was exposed as falsified.

"Zinkhas stated that the tests did not get the same results each time they were runand the results reported in the JAMA paper are those the team adjudged"most likely" based on "majority rule" (Curse of thePharaoh's DNA AWT Conference Review, Marchant; 2011)

C) Further distorted by DNA tribes when they used a comically few number of STA markers from the JAMA data. Here are a couple of letters written to people who called bull**** on the "study."


Thank you for your interest in therecent Digest Article. The 8 STR loci tested do not allow a fine leveladmixutre analysis to identify percentages of ancestry from world regions orcontinents. However, in this case, available results indicate the Amarnamummies have inherited several alleles that are most frequent in African populations, which suggests someAfrican ancestry (not necessarily excluding other ancestral components) forthese ancient individuals.

Best regards

Lucas Martin

DNA Tribes

The presence of some African allelesamong the Amarna mummies does not necessarily exclude that ancient Egyptianpopulations were descended from multiple ancestral components (possiblyincluding regional contacts related to modern populations of Egypt).

These preliminary results onlysuggest that based on the 8 STR markers tested for the Amarna mummies, one ofthese ancestral components might have been indigenous to Africa

Best regards

Lucas Martin

DNA Tribes




Quote:
Originally Posted by WanderLust3 View Post
Here is a video or REAL ancient Egyptian artifacts just for fun.
Again, the science is clear. You can believe your silly videos on artifacts all you want.



Quote:
Originally Posted by WanderLust3 View Post
Oh, and the epicanthic eye fold is ALL OVER AFRICA...East, West, South, Central....I have seen enough pictures and real life Africans to know it.
So what SPECIFIC people are you saying sailed to America and taught the Mexicans?

Van Sertima mentioned an "Egypto-Nubian? type. I have debunked that, but there is no prominent epicanthic eyefold there. The alternative usually mentioned is the Mande...does not fit the bill. What SPECIFIC people do you think fit the bill and when did they come?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WanderLust3 View Post
There are over 3,000 tribes in African and over 2,000 languages spoken...yet people are always looking outside...always assigning Africa foreign influences.
Actually, you are assigning Mexico African cultural influences that NO LEGITIMATE SCIENTIST OF ANY VARIETY agrees to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WanderLust3 View Post
This is sometimes true, but many times not.
Many great African civilizations deserve credit regardless of cultural influence. All civilizations have cultural partners. West Africa has a great history of its own.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WanderLust3 View Post
People accept the leading evolutionary Out of Africa Theory, but then they leave off when it comes to culture and civilization.
I am sorry, but this REALLY shows what an advocationist you are. Out of Africa happened long before there was a such thing as culture or civilization. It is just a classic apples and oranges situation.


Quote:
Originally Posted by WanderLust3 View Post
You accept A but then reject everything in between to Z. Silly.
Why do all Afrocentric advocationists use emoticons when they are trying to hammer through some nonsense?

Last edited by cachibatches; 03-01-2014 at 12:15 AM..
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Old 03-01-2014, 11:05 PM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,928,652 times
Reputation: 3799
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwardA View Post
Lol I pity your ignorance I truly do. Go ask an Amharic Ethiopian if they consider themselves "Black" like a Bantu ( which most African-Americans happen to be) you may not like their answer. At some point African-Anericans will realize that their definition of "Black" isn't applicable or useful in global discussion. Ethnicity has far more weight than skin color in the world.
Edward, as an African yourself, do you see any redeeming factors in being African? Or do you daily praise the white man from saving you from your "savagery"?

You as an African indeed have a more vested interest in ensuring that the truth of pre colonial Africa be portrayed, because it is indeed on Africa and Africans, that the stigma of the "Dark Continent" is most poured. More than on us descendants of slaves, who were "supposedly" "saved" from the alleged "bestiality" of what being African is all about. After all we don't have any recollective memory of our pre colonial African cultures, so eagerly distance ourselves from being stigmatized by it.

You no doubt are fully aware that many blacks from the Americas will glad you endorse your description of Africa as confirmation that Africans are the inferior group, as described in those Tarzan movies, and so the most inferior group of blacks on this planet.

Don't be fooled by a few intellectuals. Few blacks of the Americas wish to be in any way connected to Africa, when they read of the daily carnage on that sad continent.

So don't argue with us, as if it is us who must recreate some imaginary Africa for our self esteem. It is you as an African who might have to do so.
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Old 03-26-2014, 03:30 AM
 
75 posts, read 84,094 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
That is the central crux of the thing. A written language is essential to any civilization in the post-Sumerian sense of the word. There have been a few cultures that have left behind an interesting artifact or two in the absence of a written language, but they simply cannot be thought of as "civilizations" in the modern form.

The well -known kingdoms of Africa, Benin and Ghana and the rest, were possible only because they had a system of writing and record keeping with borrowed Arabic. Prior to the incursions of cultures bringing written languages from the north, Africans simply had no means of organizing advanced cultural institutions.

Africans were basically Stone-age, until about the 8th century, when Arabs began importing slaves and gold from Sahelian Africa, and left the Arabic language and other cultural residue for the Africans to utilize in establishing formidable empires.
pure bs
Iron use, in smelting and forging for tools, appears in Nok culture in Africa at least by 550 BC and possibly earlier. Christopher Ehret has suggested that iron smelting was independently discovered in the region prior to 1000 BC
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Old 03-26-2014, 03:57 AM
 
75 posts, read 84,094 times
Reputation: 49
Default Ife & Benin

Ife Art from Nigeria













Benin Bronze







these are not Arab influenced, do you see this in Muslim north African? no
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