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Old 09-05-2013, 11:07 AM
 
6,555 posts, read 9,068,716 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwardA View Post

Where are the Incas now? That should be all the proof you need.
Well the Inca like all native Americans were conqured by Europeans because Europeans had better weapons(and diseases). Even the Aztec who had writing were conqured.
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Old 09-05-2013, 11:17 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kreutz View Post
It's amazing how people with no roots will latch on to whatever they can for some sense of legitimacy, but this a bold-faced lie.

Nubians were slave to the decidedly non-black Egyptians, and half-assedly stole what little culture they possessed from the Egyptians (see the laughable Nubian "pyramids" for example; essentially vaguely conical piles of rocks).




Most of these busts (like above) depict decidedly un-black features, such as longer noses and thin lips.
OK, fair enough, Egyptians were not black. What color were they? Or is it impossible to find out? And what race of people today have longer noses and thinner lips?

And I never knew that Egyptians enslaved Nubians; that is an amazing historical find. I learn new stuff everyday here.
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Old 09-05-2013, 11:20 AM
 
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I understand that there can be limits to a people's development without them having writing but at the same time it seems kinda narrow to equate all non writing people with being backwards. Again the Inca would disprove that view.

Even many pre-colonial Africans can disprove that view. A people can be developed and well organized without writing. The Luba empire would be an example of this.

Quote:

The Luba empire's expansion was due to its development of a form of government that was durable enough to withstand the disruptions of succession disputes and flexible enough to incorporate foreign leaders and governments. Based on twin principles of sacred kingship (balopwe) and rule by council, the Luba model of statecraft was adopted by the Lunda and spread throughout the region that is today northern Angola, northwestern Zambia, and southern Democratic Republic of Congo.

Kingdom of Luba - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 09-05-2013, 11:20 AM
 
574 posts, read 1,670,424 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kreutz View Post
It's amazing how people with no roots will latch on to whatever they can for some sense of legitimacy, but this a bold-faced lie.

Nubians were slave to the decidedly non-black Egyptians, and half-assedly stole what little culture they possessed from the Egyptians (see the laughable Nubian "pyramids" for example; essentially vaguely conical piles of rocks).




Most of these busts (like above) depict decidedly un-black features, such as longer noses and thin lips.
Book of Gates - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 09-05-2013, 11:27 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motion View Post
I understand that there can be limits to a people's development without them having writing but at the same time it seems kinda narrow to equate all non writing people with being backwards. Again the Inca would disprove that view.

Even many pre-colonial Africans can disprove that view. A people can be developed and well organized without writing. The Luba empire would be an example of this.
Let me also add this: The Latin alphabet, which was spread by Europeans throughout Africa, Asia, and the Americas, is originally derived from the Phoenician alphabet. Of note is that the Phoenicians were from the middle east (present day Lebanon, Israel, Syria, Jordan). Would we say that the people of the middle east are more advanced culturally than Europeans because they gave their language symbols to Europeans?
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Old 09-05-2013, 11:44 AM
 
Location: Maryland
18,624 posts, read 16,424,212 times
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Originally Posted by mdiggs1 View Post
Sir, are you aware that Ethiopians are black? Are you aware that Ethiopians originate from this continent we call Africa? Are you aware that Ethiopians are Black Africans? Are you aware that Ethiopians have a written language?

Are you also aware that Black Africans in the ancient city states of Somalia used to trade extensively in the Indian Ocean in ancient times. They did it with these things called ships. You just stated that Black Africans developed no seafaring ships, however it is historical fact that Egyptians, Nubians, Ethiopians, and Somalians all had ships, and all used to trade with each other, and with various cultures in Asia.
Lol I pity your ignorance I truly do. Go ask an Amharic Ethiopian if they consider themselves "Black" like a Bantu ( which most African-Americans happen to be) you may not like their answer. At some point African-Anericans will realize that their definition of "Black" isn't applicable or useful in global discussion. Ethnicity has far more weight than skin color in the world.
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Old 09-05-2013, 11:45 AM
 
Location: Maryland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdiggs1 View Post
Let me also add this: The Latin alphabet, which was spread by Europeans throughout Africa, Asia, and the Americas, is originally derived from the Phoenician alphabet. Of note is that the Phoenicians were from the middle east (present day Lebanon, Israel, Syria, Jordan). Would we say that the people of the middle east are more advanced culturally than Europeans because they gave their language symbols to Europeans?
Where in Asia did the Latin script spread in antiquity?
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Old 09-05-2013, 11:47 AM
 
Location: Maryland
18,624 posts, read 16,424,212 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motion View Post
I understand that there can be limits to a people's development without them having writing but at the same time it seems kinda narrow to equate all non writing people with being backwards. Again the Inca would disprove that view.

Even many pre-colonial Africans can disprove that view. A people can be developed and well organized without writing. The Luba empire would be an example of this.
I agree with you on most topics but not this one. A people can't be considered advanced if even their elites can't write.
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Old 09-05-2013, 11:52 AM
 
Location: Maryland
18,624 posts, read 16,424,212 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdiggs1 View Post
OK, fair enough, Egyptians were not black. What color were they? Or is it impossible to find out? And what race of people today have longer noses and thinner lips?

And I never knew that Egyptians enslaved Nubians; that is an amazing historical find. I learn new stuff everyday here.
Why do you think color of skin means anything in the context of this discussion? The Negritos are as Black as most Africans but are indigenous to the Philippines yet they are the most distantly related peoples on Earth from Black Africans.
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Old 09-05-2013, 11:53 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,663 posts, read 74,231,932 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motion View Post

Even many pre-colonial Africans can disprove that view. A people can be developed and well organized without writing. The Luba empire would be an example of this.
You can't just draw a line somewhere and say everything on one side is developed and everything on the other side is undeveloped. The Luba were nowhere near as well organized as the civilizations of west Africa after Arab exposure, and a great deal of what is attributed to Luba might very well have leaked down to them in the later years of their empire. The Luba were there for a very long time, and we know little about their administrations prior to colonial exposure.

And one or two anecdotal constructions do not "disprove" any view. The simple fact is that western and southern Africa people did not tend to form into great civilizations without the aid of external influence, even if you can find a single example of one a little bit better organized than all the others.

It would not be difficult at all to find a few anecdotal examples of advanced social organization among North American Indian tribes. Probably comparable to those of pre-Colonial Africa. That falls very short of extolling them as "great civilizations" comparable to those of contemporaneous Asia.
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