U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Africa
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 09-05-2013, 12:13 PM
 
574 posts, read 1,670,242 times
Reputation: 516

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwardA View Post
Lol I pity your ignorance I truly do. Go ask an Amharic Ethiopian if they consider themselves "Black" like a Bantu ( which most African-Americans happen to be) you may not like their answer. At some point African-Anericans will realize that their definition of "Black" isn't applicable or useful in global discussion. Ethnicity has far more weight than skin color in the world.
Sir, please stop avoiding the question. You know as well as I and anybody else on this forum that Ethiopians are black. You are trying your best to deflect now.

You stated that no Black Africans had written languages, nor did they ever build seafaring ships.

I retorted by saying, "what about the Ancient Egyptians, Nubians, Ethiopians, and Somalians who had written languages and seafaring ships?"

You came back and said, "None of those groups are in Sub-Saharan Africa nor are they Bantu."

BUT, You didn't retort and say that none of those groups are not black. You didn't stop me in my tracks and say that these groups were not black Africans.

I said ok, fair enough.

But answer me this one question EdwardA: Can we agree that Ethiopia is geographically below the Sahara? Can we atleast agree on that?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-05-2013, 12:23 PM
 
574 posts, read 1,670,242 times
Reputation: 516
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwardA View Post
Where in Asia did the Latin script spread in antiquity?
It spread from the middle east, from this group of people the Greeks named the Phoenicians.

The Phoenicians were the name given to this group of people out of the middle east. The place they came from corresponds to present day Lebanon, Israel, Syria, and Jordan.

The Phoenicians were seafaring traders, who set up colonies along the Mediterranean coasts of Africa and Europe. They traded extensively with the Greeks, and the Greeks adopted their alphabet. Under the Greeks the writing system came to be known as the Greek alphabet, and under the Romans it came to be known as the Latin alphabet, of which it is still called today.

Through Greek and Later Roman culture, this system of writing got spread to the rest of Europe, then Europe spread it to the rest of the world.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-05-2013, 12:32 PM
 
574 posts, read 1,670,242 times
Reputation: 516
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwardA View Post
Why do you think color of skin means anything in the context of this discussion? The Negritos are as Black as most Africans but are indigenous to the Philippines yet they are the most distantly related peoples on Earth from Black Africans.
EdwardA, this is a discussion not on the topic, but of me and the particular poster that posted what he said.

He said that the Egyptians were not black, I said that they were. The next step is for both of us to use our sources of historical evidence to disprove each other's points.

He used a statue of a man with a long nose and thin lips to prove Egyptians were non-black.

I gave a link on the Book of Gates, which is a book on Egyptian culture and funeral rites, which shows Egyptians drawing themselves as people with a large amount of melanin in their skin. Also located in the Book of Gates is a depiction of Europeans and Asiatics, who have significantly less melanin in their skin.

An Egyptian drew these images, and he specifically made the depiction of the Egyptian man's skin dark, because that is what he looked like. He made the Nubian darker than him, because that is what the Nubian looked like. And he made the European and Asiatic lighter than him, because that is what they looked like.

Again, this is a conversation between me and Kreutz. But thanks for sticking up for him.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-05-2013, 12:42 PM
 
574 posts, read 1,670,242 times
Reputation: 516
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
You can't just draw a line somewhere and say everything on one side is developed and everything on the other side is undeveloped. The Luba were nowhere near as well organized as the civilizations of west Africa after Arab exposure, and a great deal of what is attributed to Luba might very well have leaked down to them in the later years of their empire. The Luba were there for a very long time, and we know little about their administrations prior to colonial exposure.

And one or two anecdotal constructions do not "disprove" any view. The simple fact is that western and southern Africa people did not tend to form into great civilizations without the aid of external influence, even if you can find a single example of one a little bit better organized than all the others.

It would not be difficult at all to find a few anecdotal examples of advanced social organization among North American Indian tribes. Probably comparable to those of pre-Colonial Africa. That falls very short of extolling them as "great civilizations" comparable to those of contemporaneous Asia.
I think the question should be what would jtur88 call a "real civilization."

1.
an advanced state of human society, in which a high level of culture, science, industry, and government has been reached.
2.
those people or nations that have reached such a state.
3.
any type of culture, society, etc., of a specific place, time, or group: Greek civilization.
4.
the act or process of civilizing or being civilized: Rome's civilization of barbaric tribes was admirable.
5.
cultural refinement; refinement of thought and cultural appreciation: The letters of Madame de Sévigné reveal her wit and civilization.

I think the first definition is what most people use to refer to civilization. But by that first definition, much of none of the African countries would be considered civilized in 2013. Especially when it comes to industry, and noting the fact that many government coups occur on the African continent in modern times.

So the question is what makes a society civilized, as opposed to uncivilized? Or is it just differing degrees of civilization?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-05-2013, 01:17 PM
 
Location: Vineland, NJ
8,483 posts, read 10,460,458 times
Reputation: 5397
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Yes.

The Incas were not a culture, they were an empire that acted colonially over a large number of diverse cultures. The Incas imposed their language and some aspects of their technology on the various cultures of the region, which otherwise remained distinct, and retained much of their original cultural traditions.

Yes, the Incas made remarkable accomplishments in the absence of writing, although the quipus were in some way analogous to writing. However, there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that anybody in western Africa developed a culture anywhere near as advanced as Inca culture, prior to their contact with Arabs in the 8th century. Nor is there any compelling evidence that the Egyptians had any significant genetic connection to any black-skinned peoples.
There are so many contradictions in your post but there is another thing that hasn't been addressed yet. The problem is that you are putting way too much emphasis on color when it comes to the continent of Africa. Looking at it from simply skin complexion is very short-sighted to say the least. The whole concept of race in general is a Eurocentric concept that doesn't really hold much weight in regards to the culture and ideologies of African people, especially when looking at it from a historical perspective.

Also in general(to everyone) what is up with some of these posters who feel the need to disassociate Egypt as if it is not an African Civilization. News flash! they are indigenous people of Africa!. Whether you like it or not, they are part of Africa just like any other ethnic group in the continent. It's so absurd how people go out of their to disassociate Egypt and North Africa from the rest of the continent. Some people think North Africa is not the "real" or "true Africa" like the Sub-Saharan region. The so called "Sub-Sahara or "Black Africa" is not the true Africa, it's just Africa. If I started disassociating civilizations like the Romans and Greeks as being part of European culture, I would be crucified by many of you. Why is it that we can look at other continents for what they are but when it comes to continent of Africa, most always have to use race or skin color?

Last edited by gwillyfromphilly; 09-05-2013 at 01:30 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-05-2013, 04:06 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,663 posts, read 74,221,895 times
Reputation: 36087
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwillyfromphilly View Post
There are so many contradictions in your post but there is another thing that hasn't been addressed yet. The problem is that you are putting way too much emphasis on color when it comes to the continent of Africa. Looking at it from simply skin complexion is very short-sighted to say the least. The whole concept of race in general is a Eurocentric concept that doesn't really hold much weight in regards to the culture and ideologies of African people, especially when looking at it from a historical perspective.

Also in general(to everyone) what is up with some of these posters who feel the need to disassociate Egypt as if it is not an African Civilization. News flash! they are indigenous people of Africa!. Whether you like it or not, they are part of Africa just like any other ethnic group in the continent. It's so absurd how people go out of their to disassociate Egypt and North Africa from the rest of the continent. Some people think North Africa is not the "real" or "true Africa" like the Sub-Saharan region. The so called "Sub-Sahara or "Black Africa" is not the true Africa, it's just Africa. If I started disassociating civilizations like the Romans and Greeks as being part of European culture, I would be crucified by many of you. Why is it that we can look at other continents for what they are but when it comes to continent of Africa, most always have to use race or skin color?
If you want to blather on and on about how racist you are, don't affix your remarks to my quote, because I neither said nor implied anything about race. Nor did I say anything about color, except to challenge posters who insist that they absolutely know that the Egyptians were black-skinned, which was an aside unrelated to my main point.

Let me further waste my time by reminding you that I said western Africa in my post that you are so zealously belaboring. Newsflash, yourself.

Last edited by jtur88; 09-05-2013 at 04:15 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-05-2013, 04:10 PM
 
Location: Maryland
18,620 posts, read 16,421,685 times
Reputation: 6347
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdiggs1 View Post
It spread from the middle east, from this group of people the Greeks named the Phoenicians.

The Phoenicians were the name given to this group of people out of the middle east. The place they came from corresponds to present day Lebanon, Israel, Syria, and Jordan.

The Phoenicians were seafaring traders, who set up colonies along the Mediterranean coasts of Africa and Europe. They traded extensively with the Greeks, and the Greeks adopted their alphabet. Under the Greeks the writing system came to be known as the Greek alphabet, and under the Romans it came to be known as the Latin alphabet, of which it is still called today.

Through Greek and Later Roman culture, this system of writing got spread to the rest of Europe, then Europe spread it to the rest of the world.
Asian languages don't use Latin script, neither does Russia. Although some Turkic languages use Latin script this is relatively recent development not something borne out of recent Roman expansion. So again I ask you where in Asia is Latin script used as a direct result of Ancient Rome?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-05-2013, 04:15 PM
 
Location: Vineland, NJ
8,483 posts, read 10,460,458 times
Reputation: 5397
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
If you want to blather on and on about how racist you are,
Oh please. So now your calling me a racist for criticizing the racial ideology on this topic?

Quote:
don't affix your remarks to my post, because I neither said nor implied anything about race.
I clearly stated that the last paragraph was geared towards everyone and not you particularly.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-05-2013, 09:44 PM
 
Location: Allendale MI
2,532 posts, read 1,892,956 times
Reputation: 698
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwardA View Post
Lol I pity your ignorance I truly do. Go ask an Amharic Ethiopian if they consider themselves "Black" like a Bantu ( which most African-Americans happen to be) you may not like their answer. At some point African-Anericans will realize that their definition of "Black" isn't applicable or useful in global discussion. Ethnicity has far more weight than skin color in the world.
Most African Americans came from West Africa and are not Bantu.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-05-2013, 11:00 PM
 
Location: Vineland, NJ
8,483 posts, read 10,460,458 times
Reputation: 5397
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michigantown View Post
Most African Americans came from West Africa and are not Bantu.
Technically you are correct. The Bantu people originated out of what is now Central, Southern, and parts of central Africa. The Bantu language was later spread to other parts of Africa. A good analogy would be the Latin language spreading other other countries in Europe.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Africa
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top