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Old 10-15-2013, 01:36 PM
 
219 posts, read 721,282 times
Reputation: 153

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DNAtribes autosomal DNA analysis has found:

http://public.bay.livefilestore.com/...family%202.jpg

Amarna period pharaohs/Greatest period in ancient Egyptian history):


]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-XdY3E3uOsgw/TvzM6u5OgzI/AAAAAAAAEZ0/_pCkKg3r86M/s1600/dnatribes.jpg

Quote:
Geographical analysis of the Amarna mummies was performed using their autosomal STR profiles based on 8 tested loci. Results are summarized in Table 1 and illustrated in Figure 1. Maps for individual Amarna mummies are included in Figures 2-8 in the Appendix.

Discussion: Average MLI scores in Table 1 indicate the STR profiles of the Amarna mummies would be most frequent in present day populations of several African regions: including the Southern African (average MLI 326.94), African Great Lakes (average MLI 323.76), and Tropical West African (average MLI 83.74) regions.

These regional matches do not necessarily indicate an exclusively African ancestry for the Amarna pharaonic family. However, results indicate these ancient individuals inherited some alleles that today are more frequent in populations of Africa than in other parts of the world (such as D18S51=19 and D21S11=34).
link

DNAtribes further states in their publication at the beginning of this year:

Quote:
These results indicate that both Ramesses III and Unknown Man E (possibly his son Pentawer) shared an ancestral component with present day populations of Sub-Saharan Africa.... A previous issue of DNA Tribes Digest identified African related ancestry for King Tut and other royal mummies from the Amarna Period. In this issue, results indicate that the later pharaoh Ramesses III also inherited alleles that are most frequent in present day populations of Sub-Saharan Africa. This provides additional, independent evidence of Sub-Saharan African ancestry (possibly among several ancestral components) for pharaonic families of ancient Egypt.....In addition, these DNA match results in present day world regions might in part express population changes in Africa after the time of Ramesses III. In particular, DNA matches in present day populations of Southern Africa and the African Great Lakes might to some degree reflect genetic links with ancient populations (formerly living closer to New Kingdom Egypt) that have expanded southwards in the Nilotic and Bantu migrations of the past 3,000 years (see Figure 1)
link

Here is the independent peer reviewed study conducted on Ramses III and his son less then a year ago:

Quote:
We amplified 16 Y chromosomal, short tandem repeats (AmpF\STR Yfiler PCR amplification kit; Applied Biosystems).........Genetic kinship analyses revealed identical haplotypes in both mummies (table 1⇓); using the Whit Athey’s haplogroup predictor, we determined the Y chromosomal haplogroup E1b1a
link

This is it's current distribution:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._Rosa_2007.jpg

With peaks in West Africa and Southern Africa.

Quote:
The indigenous African tribal name of the most popular Ancient Egyptian king the west was Tutu Ankoma—not Tutankhamun. Not only do we know the indigenous African tribal name of this Ancient Egyptian king, but we also know where the modern dynasty of his ancient dynasty is today. We know in Africa that the Ancient Egyptian king who built the middle pyramid in Giza was called Akufu and not Khufu as the experts have told us. We also know that his two sons completed the procession of pyramids and placed a lion in the front of the procession. These sons were Dade Afre and not Djedefra as the experts transposed this name; and his brother was Ochere Afre and not Chephren as the experts have told us. The modern dynasty of these ancient kings is the Akuapem Dynasty that can be found today in the Eastern Region of Ghana. Conservatives, liberals, and all in between can go to check these people out and verify the royal names among these people.
http://covers.openlibrary.org/b/id/734773-M.jpg

Last edited by Beretta; 10-24-2013 at 04:48 PM.. Reason: copyright violation

 
Old 10-15-2013, 07:47 PM
 
Location: Vineland, NJ
8,483 posts, read 10,458,635 times
Reputation: 5397
Great thread but you know the haters will get upset over this topic. Many can't handle the truth.
 
Old 10-15-2013, 10:11 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,663 posts, read 74,221,895 times
Reputation: 36087
You forgot to edit out and exclude this important line:

These regional matches do not necessarily indicate an exclusively African ancestry for the Amarna pharaonic family

The entirety of all of the links you have offered is riddled with the words "might be"
and "could be". Nothing says "is".

Furthermore, the site you seem to have quoted from is nothing but a blog, that appeared in the newsletter of a DNA testing agency, and has not been vetted by any other authorities or knowledgeable people. Which pretty obviously hasn't "debunked" anything.

Last edited by jtur88; 10-15-2013 at 10:22 PM..
 
Old 10-16-2013, 01:24 PM
 
Location: Maryland
18,620 posts, read 16,419,369 times
Reputation: 6347
Did someone ever say King Tut was European?
 
Old 10-17-2013, 12:52 AM
 
219 posts, read 721,282 times
Reputation: 153
Oh and King Tut died from sickle cell:

Quote:
King Tutankhamun died from sickle-cell disease, not malaria, say experts. A team from Hamburg's Bernhard Noct Institute for Tropical Medicine (BNI) claim the disease is a far likelier cause of death than the combination of bone disorders and malaria put forward by Egyptian experts earlier this year.
link

http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/2776/overtimevd9.gif

Which originated amongst West Africans.

Last edited by Beretta; 10-24-2013 at 04:51 PM.. Reason: copyright violation
 
Old 10-17-2013, 07:07 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,663 posts, read 74,221,895 times
Reputation: 36087
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Unbreakable View Post
Oh and King Tut died from sickle cell:

link

Which originated amongst West Africans.
From your link:

"The BNI team argues that theories offered by Egyptian experts, led by antiquities tsar Zahi Hawass, are based on data that can be interpreted otherwise. They say further analysis of the data will confirm or deny their work."

From Wiki: "In Saudi Arabia about 4.2% of the population carry the sickle-cell trait"

I guess you've proved that King Tut might have been an Arab.
Didn't AIDS originate amongst West Africans. Does that make an African of everyone who dies of AIDS?

You're debunked (let's end the racist lies).

Last edited by jtur88; 10-17-2013 at 07:22 AM..
 
Old 10-17-2013, 03:53 PM
 
219 posts, read 721,282 times
Reputation: 153
Skeletal analysis of Pre-Dynastic and 18th and 19th Dynasty pharaohs:

Quote:
"It can be seen that all the pharonic values, including those of 'Smakhare', lie much closer to the negro curve than to the white curve. Since stature equations only work satisfactorily in the individuals to whom they have applied have similar proportions to the population group from which they are derived, this provides justification for using negro equations for estimating stature from single bones of the New Kingdom pharaohs, reinforcing the previous findings of Robins (1983). Furthermore, the Troller and Gleser white equations for the femur, tibia and humerus yield stature values that have a much wider spread than those from negro equations with mean values that are unacceptably large."
and


Quote:
"Robins (1983) and Robins & Shute (1983) have shown that more consistent results are obtained from ancient Egyptian male skeletons if Trotter & Gleser formulae for negro are used, rather than those for whites which have always been applied in the past. .. their physical proportions were more like modern negroes than those of modern whites, with limbs that were relatively long compared with the trunk, and distal segments that were long compared with the proximal segments. If ancient Egyptian males had what may be termed negroid proportions, it seems reasonable that females did likewise."

(Robins G, Shute CCD. 1986. Predynastic Egyptian stature and physical proportions. Hum Evol 1:313–324. Ruff CB. 1994.)
and


Quote:
"Estimates of living stature, based on X-ray measurements applied to the Trotter & Gleser (1958) negro equations for the femur, tibia and humerus, have been made for ancient Egyptian kings belonging to the 18th and 19th dynasties. The corresponding equations for whites give values for stature that are unsatisfactorily high. The view that Thutmose III was excessively short is proved to be a myth. It is shown that the limbs of the pharaohs, like those of other Ancient Egyptians, had negroid characteristics, in that the distal segments were relatively long in comparison with the proximal segments. An exception was Ramesses II, who appears to have had short legs below the knees."

--Robins and Schute. The Physical Proportions and Stature of New Kingdom Pharaohs," Journal of Human
Evolution 12 (1983), 455-465
That explains why Robins and Shutes described the ancient Egyptian as having a "Super Negroid body plan", which were finding that were reinforced (in a more "PC" way) by Zakrzewski in 2003 and a Holliday's study which was just released a few months ago:


http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/261/yx58.jpg

It is indisputable that the ancient Egyptians were black Africans.

Last edited by Beretta; 10-24-2013 at 04:55 PM.. Reason: copyright violation
 
Old 10-19-2013, 06:29 PM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,507,518 times
Reputation: 6752
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Unbreakable View Post


DNAtribes autosomal DNA analysis has found:


^ Amarna period pharaohs/Greatest period in ancient Egyptian history):





link

DNAtribes further states in their publication at the beginning of this year:



link

Here is the independent peer reviewed study conducted on Ramses III and his son less then a year ago:



link

This is it's current distribution:



With peaks in West Africa and Southern Africa.



Sir Shawn, as you well know (because you have been told on this and other sites) the DNA tribes "study" is nonsense on a number of levels. Most importantly, it takes JAMA data that was admitted to be falsified by Albert Zink:


"Zink has stated that the tests did not get the same results each time they were run and the results reported in the JAMA paper are those the team adjudged "most likely" based on "majority rule" (Curse of the Pharaoh's DNA AWT Conference Review, Marchant; 2011)

The Egyptians are the same people that they have always been, a except a little darker due to the Arab slave trade. Everyone, including Keita, agrees:


Shomarka Omar Keita: What Genetics Can Tell Us (EGYPT) - YouTube


Here is an article for those interested:

[font="Calibri"][b]AWT Conference 2011 Review: Curse of the Pharaoh’s DNA (Jo Marchant)

Review by Kate Phizackerley.

Published on Egyptological, Magazine Reviews, 7th December 2011 (Edition 3).


Introduction

Many people were looking forward to hearing Jo Marchant speak about the DNA tests undertaken by Drs Zink, Pusch et al, and she didn’t disappoint. She was an outstanding speaker. She opened her talk by describing DNA itself, a topic which need not be repeated in this review, but which was useful for those in the audience who do not have a scientific background.

Marchant noted that the first study of ancient mummy DNA was conducted by Svante Pääbo in the 1980s whilst he was studying for his PhD at the University of Uppsala in Sweden, but is now himself sceptical of his results. The study of ancient DNA remains a subject of academic debate, with some experts believing that it is not possible to reliably sequence ancient DNA. Marchant was at pains to highlight that there are two camps, with a stark division between those who work on ancient DNA, especially human DNA, and those who believe it is not technically possible to produce valid results, with some labs refusing to take commissions. Throughout her lecture, Marchant presented the viewpoint from both sides of the debate, but her own position seemed to be that of a sceptic. The lecture needs to be considered in that context: an ancient DNA adherent might well have been more positive about some of the findings.

mod cut

Last edited by Beretta; 10-24-2013 at 06:03 PM.. Reason: copyright violation; please provide link to the article
 
Old 10-19-2013, 10:13 PM
 
284 posts, read 506,998 times
Reputation: 308
all the ancient egyptian pharaohs were black.
 
Old 10-19-2013, 11:05 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
23,396 posts, read 28,226,906 times
Reputation: 28974
More on the difficulty in analyzing ancient DNA:

http://www.the-scientist.com/?articl...he-Mummy-Code/


Those of us who are researching our own recent ancestors with the aid of DNA realize that Y-DNA tells only a small part of the story. It reveals only the direct male line. That is why it was so exciting when autosomal DNA testing became affordable.

So even if the tests described in the OP are confirmed and the Y chromosomal haplogroup is E1b1a, that does not mean that the individuals tested do not have other lines in common with Europeans. The amount of DNA tested is only a tiny fraction of the total genome.

I am not sure what the OP is determined to prove. Were the Egyptians African? Well, yes, I believe by definition they were African, since Egypt is in Africa. Were they black? From their art, as seanturner has demonstrated, they were all shades from beige to blue black. It seems pretty clear what they looked like.

It appears, however, that there is sufficient concern about the technical aspects of testing DNA from embalmed ancient subjects stored in a hot environment that have been handled outside a sterile laboratory to say the genetics of the mummies studied so far are not conclusive. It does look like that technology is advancing rapidly enough that it should be more clear in the future.

I think it is reasonable to suspect that ancient Egyptians probably did look very much like modern Egyptians, as cachibatches' post notes.

Far more intriguing, I think, will be comparative DNA studies between the ancients and those modern Egyptians. Will we find descendants of the Pharaohs? I suspect so.
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