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Old 07-21-2018, 08:33 AM
 
1,736 posts, read 621,943 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
Name the country of origin. Otherwise you're just trolling. Eastern Europe is a huge place.

Otherwise, how do we even know you're from Eastern Europe?

How does it mean that I am just trolling if I don't state the name of the country, and how is it not obvious to a person with a bit of education in humanities (about which you are bragging incessantly) that the only country fitting the description of my native country could be Yugoslavia (which no longer exists)? It is not Eastern Europe really, but South-Eastern (as I mentioned). Thete are now 7 countries on that territory, my parents would be counted as being from two different countries, I have no idea (and it does not interest me) how I would be counted over there now, as I am a naturalized US citizen with global outlook (ie, not interested in religious/ethnic/racial bickering and who "owes" what to whom "historically", but interestested in a civilized present and future).
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Old 07-21-2018, 09:19 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
This is the Africa forum, so stuff about who collects welfare in America (regardless of race) is ENTIRELY irrelevant. Take your issues with welfare to the relevant forum.

This thread came to my attention because the CD Forum shows, in a sidebar, threads related to those in which one is participating. It showed up in a sidebar while I was looking up Parkchester, an area of the Bronx which interests me because I have a condo there. The condo complex is a home to many people of Black race, including major numbers of both Afro-Americans and immigrants from Africa. I am interested in Parkchester neighbors, and therefore am also interested in both of these two groups of Parkchesterites.


I just observed that the immigrants from Africa are very similar to me (an immigrant from Europe) in their individuality, self-reliance, curiosity, and interest in education for the sake of education, as a result of curiosity. Immigrants from Europe and Africa (such as, let's say, David Bowie and Iman), in my experience (where there are course many exceptions) do not have an American obsession to identify in every detail with a group, or achieve a high status according to parameters of a particular group.


If you read this thread starting from my first appearance on it, you will see that I was not the one who brought up the link between poverty and either Afrian Americans or Africans. But whenever anybody brings poverty in the US into discussion, I will always reply what I do believe based on my own experience: that the USA offers EVERY ONE of its citizens (and select non-citizens) a straighr-forward way out of poverty, by way of subsidized education, wide availability of jobs at every level, where even the lowest jobs pay a living wage if one does not insist on luxury "needs" (being that I am child-free and entirely happy that way, I do consider children a non-essential luxury, appropriate only for people who can afford. to raise them). Thete is no reason why poverty in the US should lead to crime or to the use of welfare for ordinary life expenses, except the personal choice of a criminal or a welfare-user. Absolutely true, that part has nothing to do with Afro Americans in my own view, but there are people (including yourself, as is obvious from a million of your posts all over CDF) who ALWAYS bring up poverty into any discusdion about African Americans because they think Poor in the US = Afro American = free license to do whatever one wants to do to other people (commit crime, appropriate taxpayer money for private purposes) because anything is allowed to someone who has been disadvantaged and injured by "history". But this thinking does not take into account that most immigrants in the US prior to the 21st century - from Europe, Asia and Africa - at all times in history have been disadvantaged and injured by somebody, somewhere, and there is no reason to single out African Americans as an exclusive population in which crime and laziness should be excused and tolerated because of the AAs' "historucal disadvantage" - no more and no less than in any other population.
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Old 07-21-2018, 03:31 PM
 
24,247 posts, read 17,637,884 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elnrgby View Post
This thread came to my attention because the CD Forum shows, in a sidebar, threads related to those in which one is participating. It showed up in a sidebar while I was looking up Parkchester, an area of the Bronx which interests me because I have a condo there. The condo complex is a home to many people of Black race, including major numbers of both Afro-Americans and immigrants from Africa. I am interested in Parkchester neighbors, and therefore am also interested in both of these two groups of Parkchesterites.


I just observed that the immigrants from Africa are very similar to me (an immigrant from Europe) in their individuality, self-reliance, curiosity, and interest in education for the sake of education, as a result of curiosity. Immigrants from Europe and Africa (such as, let's say, David Bowie and Iman), in my experience (where there are course many exceptions) do not have an American obsession to identify in every detail with a group, or achieve a high status according to parameters of a particular group.


If you read this thread starting from my first appearance on it, you will see that I was not the one who brought up the link between poverty and either Afrian Americans or Africans. But whenever anybody brings poverty in the US into discussion, I will always reply what I do believe based on my own experience: that the USA offers EVERY ONE of its citizens (and select non-citizens) a straighr-forward way out of poverty, by way of subsidized education, wide availability of jobs at every level, where even the lowest jobs pay a living wage if one does not insist on luxury "needs" (being that I am child-free and entirely happy that way, I do consider children a non-essential luxury, appropriate only for people who can afford. to raise them). Thete is no reason why poverty in the US should lead to crime or to the use of welfare for ordinary life expenses, except the personal choice of a criminal or a welfare-user. Absolutely true, that part has nothing to do with Afro Americans in my own view, but there are people (including yourself, as is obvious from a million of your posts all over CDF) who ALWAYS bring up poverty into any discusdion about African Americans because they think Poor in the US = Afro American = free license to do whatever one wants to do to other people (commit crime, appropriate taxpayer money for private purposes) because anything is allowed to someone who has been disadvantaged and injured by "history". But this thinking does not take into account that most immigrants in the US prior to the 21st century - from Europe, Asia and Africa - at all times in history have been disadvantaged and injured by somebody, somewhere, and there is no reason to single out African Americans as an exclusive population in which crime and laziness should be excused and tolerated because of the AAs' "historucal disadvantage" - no more and no less than in any other population.
I was not the first one who brought poverty issues in the thread.

At this point, it's completely irrelevant to what happens when Africans meet African Americans (something which happens all over the world, and is not limited to or necessarily relevant to the US).

If you cannot contribute to this you should leave the thread PERIOD.
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Old 07-21-2018, 06:29 PM
 
3,774 posts, read 2,041,871 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
I was not the first one who brought poverty issues in the thread.

At this point, it's completely irrelevant to what happens when Africans meet African Americans (something which happens all over the world, and is not limited to or necessarily relevant to the US).

If you cannot contribute to this you should leave the thread PERIOD.




He obviously has an issue with a certain ethnic group, while simultaneously asserting that he doesn't care about religious/ethnic/racial bickering. Newsflash: the world is composed of different tribes. That is not a problem.You can have unity while maintaining your cultural identity as a member of a distinct group. Attempting to erase those very important differences is the root of the problem - not the differences themselves.


But...I don't want to further contribute to the derailment.
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Old 07-22-2018, 08:47 AM
 
1,736 posts, read 621,943 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by treemoni View Post



He obviously has an issue with a certain ethnic group, while simultaneously asserting that he doesn't care about religious/ethnic/racial bickering. Newsflash: the world is composed of different tribes. That is not a problem.You can have unity while maintaining your cultural identity as a member of a distinct group. Attempting to erase those very important differences is the root of the problem - not the differences themselves.


But...I don't want to further contribute to the derailment.

Btw, I am not "he" but "she". The world is not composed of tribes everywhere, and I personally specifically seek non-tribal places. The more technologically and economically advanced a place is, the less need for tribes. There are no tribes in Silicon Valley to my knowledge.
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Old 07-22-2018, 10:49 AM
 
24,247 posts, read 17,637,884 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elnrgby View Post
Btw, I am not "he" but "she". The world is not composed of tribes everywhere, and I personally specifically seek non-tribal places. The more technologically and economically advanced a place is, the less need for tribes. There are no tribes in Silicon Valley to my knowledge.
None of which has anything to do with this forum or this thread.

Can you contribute in any meaningful way to what happens when Africans meet African Americans?

If you cannot, and I suspect you cannot, then please BOW out.
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Old 07-22-2018, 12:17 PM
 
1,736 posts, read 621,943 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
None of which has anything to do with this forum or this thread.

Can you contribute in any meaningful way to what happens when Africans meet African Americans?

If you cannot, and I suspect you cannot, then please BOW out.

You suspect incorrectly as usual :-). Here is my meaningful contribution: in a semi-autobiographical docu-novel "Open City" by young, very interesting writer Teju Cole (who is of Nigerian ancestry), the main character of the novel, a young physician (son of a German mother and Nigerian father, who grew up mostly in Nigeria, and is living in New York) has a conversation with an Afro American taxi driver (or was it a postal worker? can't remember exactly now) in NYC. I read the book several years ago, but my recollection is that there is a whole chapter (or a large part of a chapter) devoted entirely to the topic of this thread, so maybe people posting here should read the book. It should certainly make a better starting point for discussion than the usual exchange of idiotic personal insults. I indeed don't have anything else to say on this topic, except that I really like Teju Cole's writing (not just that novel) and this young writer's individual outlook upon the world (except that I disagree with him on Charlie Hebdo; I really could not follow his logic on that one).

Last edited by elnrgby; 07-22-2018 at 12:48 PM..
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Old 07-22-2018, 12:50 PM
 
Location: West of Louisiana, East of New Mexico
2,536 posts, read 2,031,464 times
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Generally speaking, immigrants come to America and eventually end up at the same level they were back home.

What would be considered "poor" in the U.S., might be middle to upper middle class (relatively speaking) in a poorer, 2nd/3rd world nation. So that 'upper middle class' person from a war-torn nation comes to America with nothing (relative to other Americans) but with enough effort and hard work, gets back to their previous status......but since they now live in a much richer country, upper middle class in the U.S. comes with far more disposable income than upper middle class in XYZ country.

It's also difficult to compare a highly motivated, gifted, driven person with no fallback options to a larger group of struggling people. If you take the smartest, hardest working black Americans, they could just as easily succeed in other places absent overt discrimination designed to keep them at the bottom. These comparisons with blacks are often misguided because you take the most driven of one group and compare them to the worst of another group. Conversations about Black vs. White often involve juxtaposing inner city blacks with middle/upper middle class whites instead of comparing Pookie from the Projects with Terry from the Trailer Park. Terry will have quite a few advantages due to white privilege but at the core, Pookie is no worse than Terry (and less likely to be addicted to drugs).
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Old 07-22-2018, 04:42 PM
 
691 posts, read 920,581 times
Reputation: 643
I had to correct a Nigerian doctor on this issue...He started with the false comparison of successful Black immigrants vs. poor
American Blacks who complain of racism. I said "Why aren't the Area Boys and 419 scammers in Lagos not successful as
there is no white racism there? He then admitted how Nigeria was mis-managed and that England and the United States were
stable countries. At least here, he said he knows that the schools will start the same time every year!..?

He was happy to be here because Nigeria is dysfunctional and mis-managed he stated.
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Old 07-23-2018, 06:14 AM
 
24,247 posts, read 17,637,884 times
Reputation: 9170
Quote:
Originally Posted by elnrgby View Post
You suspect incorrectly as usual :-). Here is my meaningful contribution: in a semi-autobiographical docu-novel "Open City" by young, very interesting writer Teju Cole (who is of Nigerian ancestry), the main character of the novel, a young physician (son of a German mother and Nigerian father, who grew up mostly in Nigeria, and is living in New York) has a conversation with an Afro American taxi driver (or was it a postal worker? can't remember exactly now) in NYC. I read the book several years ago, but my recollection is that there is a whole chapter (or a large part of a chapter) devoted entirely to the topic of this thread, so maybe people posting here should read the book. It should certainly make a better starting point for discussion than the usual exchange of idiotic personal insults. I indeed don't have anything else to say on this topic, except that I really like Teju Cole's writing (not just that novel) and this young writer's individual outlook upon the world (except that I disagree with him on Charlie Hebdo; I really could not follow his logic on that one).
So you had to read a book to contribute. Are you sure that's a meaningful contribution? A semi-fictional book?

There's nothing wrong with not being able to contribute to or knowing very little about a subject. I'm not going to contribute to the Balkan subjects because I'm not from the Balkans and I don't live there.

You're neither an African or an African American, and at best can only look on the outside. You don't have any in depth knowledge on what happens when Africans meet African Americans.

This isn't a personal insult. I don't know what happens when people from the Balkans meet Russians, and I cannot speak about the experiences of either as I have nothing to do with either one.

It's okay for people to admit that certain things they don't know anything about (or even care to learn about, lol).
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