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Old 07-30-2018, 01:44 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AFP View Post
What makes you think that? I don't notice colorism, what I notice is more rigid hierarchy, more materialism, more entitlement among those in power(they feel they should be excluded from followings the rules and generally will without oversight) and above all much less empathy for subordinates.

What is the history of tribes in Africa? Did they have a money system, or did they trade? I just don't see a strict hierarchy existing in a culture that doesn't value currency. If there is a system based on trade, then I don't see that leading to a "better than" mindset, because you have something that I need and vice versa. But if you are taught the value of a dollar and taught to believe that dollar is inherently more valuable than other things in your culture, then it would breed a capitalistic mind. If currency was always a part of their system, then my theory is off-base.
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Old 07-30-2018, 02:15 PM
AFP
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by treemoni View Post
What is the history of tribes in Africa? Did they have a money system, or did they trade? I just don't see a strict hierarchy existing in a culture that doesn't value currency. If there is a system based on trade, then I don't see that leading to a "better than" mindset, because you have something that I need and vice versa. But if you are taught the value of a dollar and taught to believe that dollar is inherently more valuable than other things in your culture, then it would breed a capitalistic mind. If currency was always a part of their system, then my theory is off-base.
Have you worked with Africans that are from rich families? I've seen it first hand how they treat subordinates. Like I've said I've seen it close up particularly with some Nigerians. Everything that I posted I've seen firsthand many times play in in real life.
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Old 07-30-2018, 02:31 PM
 
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I'm not saying a hierarchy doesn't exists. My point is, where did that mentality come from? Is in inherent to Africans, or did they learn it from somewhere else? Personally, I think they learned it from the Europeans. I could be wrong. That's why I asked about the history of their economies. Behaving like an elitist is something I really only see in POC who are or have been westernized. Elitism comes from a selfish place. Most POC come from collectivist cultures where there is no room for that type of thinking.
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Old 07-30-2018, 03:07 PM
AFP
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by treemoni View Post
I'm not saying a hierarchy doesn't exists. My point is, where did that mentality come from? Is in inherent to Africans, or did they learn it from somewhere else? Personally, I think they learned it from the Europeans. I could be wrong. That's why I asked about the history of their economies. Behaving like an elitist is something I really only see in POC who are or have been westernized. Elitism comes from a selfish place. Most POC come from collectivist cultures where there is no room for that type of thinking.
It could have been imported but not in a recent time frame hunters and gatherers are more egalitarian. Social stratification and slavery seems to be somehow connected to the agricultural revolution which spread to Africa from eastern Anatolia and the Levant.
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Old 07-30-2018, 04:37 PM
 
Location: The end of the world
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In college usually I met tons of Africans and seeing how they interact with US citizens of AA is nothing out of the ordinary. When it comes to the yo yo crowd many do not interact with them at all. In college again it is not even funny. I ask my fellow American to turn down his headset. He just turns it up even louder. That is how terrible it is. This is a blasted college why do I have to deal with this and why is the professor allowing this? It is like gutter trash and why do the gutter have to get passed down to children who have so many resources.



The image is so bad that areas where need to paid attention to is ignored.
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Old 08-05-2018, 08:37 AM
 
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I think that Africans are big on manners and public behavior and seeing that in may quarters of American society, manners and public behavior has declined, well loud,ignorant public behavior does not bode well with them. Also this is enforced by
classism and coming from traditional cultures with strong social stratification and gender rules which fosters the mentality such as "men don't do this" "women do that" " a chief behaves this way not that.

Traditional Nigerian royalty introduced itself to me on several social occasions said: " I am so and so" , "I am CHIEF so and so" So I bowed in respect for his title. When this same person met my Mom and Aunt "HE BOWED almost all the way to the
ground. Africans are classist and socially conservative also. Contrast the above with loud, ghetto or trailer people screaming
and cussing at their kids in public.
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Old 08-05-2018, 10:41 AM
 
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Where do these quiet Africans live? The ones I know are just as if not more loud than AAs. And these are the "upper class" Africans who reside in America. LOL...I can't believe you said that. Perhaps they're well-behaved in the company of white people. Respectability politics.
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Old 08-05-2018, 05:04 PM
 
691 posts, read 920,718 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by treemoni View Post
Where do these quiet Africans live? The ones I know are just as if not more loud than AAs. And these are the "upper class" Africans who reside in America. LOL...I can't believe you said that. Perhaps they're well-behaved in the company of white people. Respectability politics.
I never said they were necessarily quiet...Nigerians have a reputation of being loud and aggressive and speaking their mind...even among other Africans..when you get into "national character" Sierra Leone and
Ghana have the reputations of being very friendly people.

Just because someone is loud, does not mean they are hostile and angry. It is the angry and hostile attitude
that turns people off. As far as well-behaved in front of white people, they are not thinking about white people ( I think you might assume I am white, I am AA).

You cannot generalize a whole group of people as being quiet or loud, you have quiet and loud people in all classes and nationalities. Some cultures are loud and expressive, some cultures hold in their feelings.
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Old 08-05-2018, 05:48 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agbor View Post
Just because someone is loud, does not mean they are hostile and angry. It is the angry and hostile attitude that turns people off. As far as well-behaved in front of white people, they are not thinking about white people ( I think you might assume I am white, I am AA).

I am not assuming you are white. I am assuming you are African based on the biases you display when describing AA behavior and African behavior, plus your screen name. All Africans I've known were loud and expressive...like many native born black Americans. You did not mention "hostile" in your first post. You just said loud...and African immigrants fit that bill in my experience. You are now inserting "hostile" because you were trying to show how native born blacks are more uncouth than Africans.


Quote:
You cannot generalize a whole group of people as being quiet or loud, you have quiet and loud people in all classes and nationalities.
...but that's exactly what you tried to do when you mentioned "ghetto" and cussing children out in public (which African parents do, BTW). People don't usually think of Africans as "ghetto". You were clearly drawing lines. Don't try to backtrack.
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Old 08-06-2018, 06:23 PM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,942,608 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elnrgby View Post
You suspect incorrectly as usual :-). Here is my meaningful contribution: in a semi-autobiographical docu-novel "Open City" by young, very interesting writer Teju Cole (who is of Nigerian ancestry), ).
Some of us have opinions based on our REAL and DIRECT interactions with a whole host of people. As an example. My barber is a Muslim from the Ivory Coast. His shop is located on 116th St in Harlem within the Francophone Muslim African community, mainly from Senegal. Other barbers include Haitians and black Americans and one Dominican.

I can observe the dynamics within that store. You read one book and now you are an expert. How do you know that the author doesn't have an agenda, writing a novel best suited to a particular target market? And despite this I will not suggest that these represent the totality of the pan African experience in NYC as these are barbers and most of the clientele aren't educated people.


Now I can say that all people from the Balkans are backward, violent, primitive, racist and narrow minded because surely there are people who live in the Bronx, with those origins, who clearly are. How would you react to this? Does it make sense to reduce a complex block of people to such a narrative? Can I credibly discuss how a Macedonian behaves when he encounters a Slovene, both from the former Yugoslavia.


Yet you quite happily stereotype black Americans within a narrow box. If you live in NYC and your experience with black Americans is only of the less educated ones then why do you think that you can speak of them?


There are some sites that I lurk on and say nothing because I don't know enough to have an opinion which adds to the discussion. The Balkans being an example, though I have been to Macedonia.


It doesn't appear as if you know enough about either Africans , or black Americans, or for that matter Caribbean blacks, who account for at least 1/3 of NYC blacks. So you cannot discuss the complexities of how they view each other.
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