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Old 08-15-2018, 12:12 AM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,941,189 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by treemoni View Post
How do black immigrants face more racism than native blacks?




In what ways? The Nigerians I know are doing quite well. I don't know any native black American families that have had weddings at the Peninsula Hotel. I know Nigerians who have.




Yes. They have money. Money buys you A LOT (access, for one) in a capitalistic society.


Of course they won't. Because...racism.



No. They can enroll in our universities (under a quota system that was intended to benefit native blacks...not just anyone with dark skin) and eventually get back to a similar social status they left back home.


...so are you trying to tell me the vast majority of Nigerians in the US were poor in Nigeria?


No, because this person likely wouldn't be allowed to (legally) come here.
The vast majority of immigrants to the USA enter not because they are educated but because they have a family member who can sponsor them. All they have to do is to prove that they will not be a burden to society so if they can work a taxi or in daycare that is good enough.

Here is how one can see how black immigrants face racism. The more educated a black immigrant and a black American have the better the black American does relative to the black immigrant. The black immigrant pays a penalty for being "foreign".


And I in fact am saying that one cannot compare a Nigerian immigrant (over 30% have graduate degrees) with a black American (only 25% have college degrees). The fact that black immigrants do better is because immigration is a selective process which attracts the more educated, driven and risk oriented. This is ESPECIALLY seen with Africans who have an even harder time reaching the USA than is true for Caribbean blacks.

Black immigrants do better NOT because they encounter less racism, but because they arrive with more human capital than the average black American has. But when we compare like for like the black American does better.

It is only at the lower educational rungs where black immigrants outperform black Americans. And this can be explained by the debilitating impacts of past Jim Crow (de facto in the North and de jure in the South) which wounded many poorer black Americans leading to self destructive behaviors.
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Old 08-15-2018, 12:22 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by treemoni View Post
What is the history of tribes in Africa? Did they have a money system, or did they trade? I just don't see a strict hierarchy existing in a culture that doesn't value currency. If there is a system based on trade, then I don't see that leading to a "better than" mindset, because you have something that I need and vice versa. But if you are taught the value of a dollar and taught to believe that dollar is inherently more valuable than other things in your culture, then it would breed a capitalistic mind. If currency was always a part of their system, then my theory is off-base.
This is your Tarzan notion of Africans. In fact Africans were traders for eons before they encountered the European and certainly had a desire to acquire wealth. The nations which were most successful did so on the basis of trade with each other and with the pan Sahara trade.

Do you know that in the 1300's the Mali empire was one of the wealthiest on this planet? The various Yoruba kingdoms in the 17th century also displayed a level of organization that impressed the Europeans who encountered them. Their cities were as large as those in Europe. Their levels of civic organization (removal of human waste) were more sophisticated and in fact Europeans learned much about tropical farming from these people.

But you think that Africa is a village chief living in a hut surrounded by 20 subjects who lived a subsistence life totally isolated from the outside world.

In fact Africans valued material acquisition and the drive to build large empires was motivated by exactly that. The ancient kingdoms of Ghana and Mali and Songhai couldn't survive without this as maintaining armies to protect territorial boundaries is expensive so one has to have an economy that is buoyant enough to sustain this.


No Africans weren't taught by "bwana" to build wealth.
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Old 08-15-2018, 12:28 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by treemoni View Post
Most POC come from collectivist cultures where there is no room for that type of thinking.
Slavery existed in pre colonial, pre Transatlantic slave trade Africa. Clearly a slave is an inferior. There were definite hierarchies in many of the pre colonial African kingdoms. The powerful conquered the weak and then kept them subjugated to the point where some ethnic groups evolved into becoming slaves of more powerful groups.

And I know that you know that the caste system of India has NOTHING to do with British colonialism.

There were high levels of social inequality among ancient Egyptians.

A basic characteristic of ALL advanced human cultures was hierarchy which evolved to maintain social order as human settlements grew larger.

In fact one can see hierarchy even among primates, who are our ancient cousins.

You need to know that hunter gatherer pygmies don't define the entirety of pre colonial Africa.
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Old 08-15-2018, 12:34 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agbor View Post
I have mostly dealt with educated Africans, .
And this is my point. Its insulting to both black Americans and Africans for people to compare African accountants with black American security guards.

Insulting to black Americans because it reduces the entire population to being under class, which is blatantly untrue. Insulting to Africans because comparing them to people with less education and human and social capital is an insult to the high potential of these people.

Let us compare street people from Lagos with those from Brooklyn. Everything that I have seen of Lagos suggests that it is a way more aggressive and violent environment at the street level than is true even for NYCHA projects.
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Old 08-15-2018, 12:40 AM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,941,189 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by treemoni View Post
Is it inferior? Not sure I agree with that. What's your point of reference?



Agreed. Lo and behold...we have a rich history. A deep history. Thousands and thousands of years of history. It's the Europeans that actually have the shallow history. Imagine that!



Suite yourself. We built civilizations before western society, and we can do it again. I personally have no desire to live in Africa. Wakanda is where the heart is.



They weren't? Interesting.






No, Africans can build their own damn continent, since they're so smart, talented, and better than the people whose shoulders they stand on in this country. They come from an entire continent full of black people. Why are the Chinese building there? If they are so superior, why do their best and brightest go to western nations to be educated?



Nonsense! Africa is full of natural resources. Why can't these people build their continent? Because their minds are enslaved.




They should be creating opportunities. Instead, they are content to sit at another man's table.


Minerals mean nothing unless they are extracted from the ground and sold. So Africa has to engage the rest of the world in order to derive value. Asia did it. 60 years ago Asia was a continent of famine, and now they have reached the point where in another 50 years (if we survive climate change) they are likely to overtake Western economies.

Here is the difference between Asia and Africa. The former invested heavily in social infrastructure turning their people into highly educated, skilled and productive people. Africa spent money on armies and useless monuments in the form of stadiums and other non productive buildings. So Africans remain uneducated, unskilled and backward, most NOT having this "western education". So they must depend on western markets, finance and technologies to exploit their natural resources. Increasingly this is being sourced from CHINA!

Chinese insist in sending their best and brightest to US colleges. Not that they think that their own are inferior. They do so because they need to understand how this country which accounts for 25% of global GDP operates. And in fact China is a considerably more prosperous country now that it engages the global economy than it was when it ignored it.

You enjoy all the privileges of being an American so can indulge in your Tarzan like fantasies about how Africans must live.
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Old 08-15-2018, 07:34 AM
 
3,774 posts, read 2,041,871 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
The vast majority of immigrants to the USA enter not because they are educated but because they have a family member who can sponsor them.
...and how do you suppose that sponsor qualified for a visa to come here? I guess they were able to establish family ties to a descendant of slaves.

Not all African-Americans are ignorant about the immigraton process. Africans have a high bar to clear in order to be here, which means they had money back home.
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Old 08-15-2018, 07:42 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
Do you know that in the 1300's the Mali empire was one of the wealthiest on this planet?

These people were, in all likelihood, Hebrew. Meaning: descendants of Shem and not Ham. The majority of African immigrants are descendants of Ham. Do you know where many of the descendants of Shem are today? America. Yes, that's right. They built another empire. The American empire. If the Africans today are descendants of the great African kingdoms of the past, WHY IS THERE NO KINGDOM IN AFRICA TODAY??? That knowledge and skill should have been passed down through generations. There is no African empire today, because the Hamites sold the real nation-builders.
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Old 08-15-2018, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by treemoni View Post
These people were, in all likelihood, Hebrew. Meaning: descendants of Shem and not Ham. The majority of African immigrants are descendants of Ham. Do you know where many of the descendants of Shem are today? America. Yes, that's right. They built another empire. The American empire. If the Africans today are descendants of the great African kingdoms of the past, WHY IS THERE NO KINGDOM IN AFRICA TODAY??? That knowledge and skill should have been passed down through generations. There is no African empire today, because the Hamites sold the real nation-builders.




What are you basing these beliefs on? Provide some data to support your claims that isn't extracted from a religious text.
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Old 08-15-2018, 12:10 PM
 
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A quick Wiki says one of the rulers was a former slave (clue one) who converted to Islam (clue two). I'm sure if you traced these names, they'd eventually reveal Israelite origins. Hebrews fled their native land and mixed in with the Hamites because they could blend in. It's why ignorant people still think AAs and Africans are the same today. At some point I will research one of these kingdoms, but I'm fairly confident these people were Hebrew based on what I know of history and the Bible. Again...if they were purley African ( as we know Africans today), why can't they duplicate the success of those empires? Africans are beholden to Europeans today...just as they were in ancient times. It's why Europeans are more comfortable with them than AAs...because AAs don't always assimilate as easily. Just. like. the. Israelites.



ETA

One of those kings was Mansa Musa. I believe "Musa" translates to Moses. You'll probably find many such translations that go back to Hebrew origins if you dig deep into the names.
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Old 08-15-2018, 07:47 PM
 
24,247 posts, read 17,643,654 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
And this is my point. Its insulting to both black Americans and Africans for people to compare African accountants with black American security guards.

Insulting to black Americans because it reduces the entire population to being under class, which is blatantly untrue. Insulting to Africans because comparing them to people with less education and human and social capital is an insult to the high potential of these people.

Let us compare street people from Lagos with those from Brooklyn. Everything that I have seen of Lagos suggests that it is a way more aggressive and violent environment at the street level than is true even for NYCHA projects.
I agree with you there. In Barcelona en La Rambla you will see Nigerian prostitutes, drug dealers, and peddlers of clothes and various items. Obviously not all Africans in Spain are like this, but there's an obvious underclass, particularly among the undocumented.

The Africans with legal status and jobs tend to live all over Spain, the undocumented/underclass are dumped in certain poor neighborhoods or in refugee centers.
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