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Old 02-05-2019, 09:18 AM
 
24,247 posts, read 17,637,884 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agbor View Post
The mere fact that one is an immigrant in the first place indicates DRIVE to get ahead or they want their descendants to get
ahead, that is one of their values. Natives might have the attitude "this is how it is" or are comfortable in a familiar routine of
life.

The argument of why don't Black Americans succeed like other Black immigrants is part of the American racial dynamic as
AA's being painted and the "bad guys". This is a simplistic "Apple vs. Orange" argument. You have Black Americans who are
succeeding and Black immigrants who are not.

No one asks why poor American whites in trailer parks are not succeeding while many whites are. A lot has to due with family function or dysfunction.
There are successful African Americans, and there are unsuccessful Black immigrants. There's a desperation of certain immigrants to push themselves ahead of others or to spit on them. Of course this is an era in which Trump would really like to END immigration from non white countries, and if the Republicans win in 2020 many of these immigrants may end up immigrating again, along with a number of Americans.
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Old 02-05-2019, 09:24 AM
 
24,247 posts, read 17,637,884 times
Reputation: 9170
There was always a wealthy or at least well off Black American class, but much of it had to do with the history of slavery in the nation.

Howard University was for colored people. As in mixed race. If you were darker than a paper bag or if they could not see the blue veins on the undersides of your skin you could be excluded. Notice how the first Black President had a white mother. Halle Berry, the first Black actress to win an Oscar for best actress, had a white mother.

Condoleeza Rice, DNA tested over 40 percent European, and she came from a middle class family descended from slave/maids and white plantation owners.

Vanessa Williams, the first Black woman to win Miss America, is about half white. Colin Powell, first Black secretary of state is part English and said to be related to the Bushes.

Having a white parent or grandparent who is at least middle class and can advocate for you puts you WAY ahead of any Black immigrant, and anyone with no realization of this is hopelessly delusional about how the United States works.

As for "African Americans" the above examples should show we aren't all the same and don't come from the same economic background.
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Old 02-07-2019, 01:51 AM
 
Location: Caribbean
7,577 posts, read 2,443,375 times
Reputation: 2743
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
There are successful African Americans, and there are unsuccessful Black immigrants. There's a desperation of certain immigrants to push themselves ahead of others or to spit on them. Of course this is an era in which Trump would really like to END immigration from non white countries, and if the Republicans win in 2020 many of these immigrants may end up immigrating again, along with a number of Americans.
Not really. Immigrants push themselves because they want to be successful, not simply to spit on people. Many, if not the majority, have opportunities in the U.S. they never had where they come from. What they don’t understand is why others don’t grasp those same opportunities. A number of them lack understanding of the experiences others have had in the U.S.
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Old 02-07-2019, 01:55 AM
 
Location: Caribbean
7,577 posts, read 2,443,375 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
The point that you don't get is that Africans and some Caribbean people see that the USA offers much greater opportunities than do their 3rd world countries, and they just cannot understand why a significant % of the AA population just fail to take advantage of this. They wonder why they, from backward nations, can fit into the middle class while so many AAs, whose ancestries go back up to 400 years, cannot.

Now there are a whole host of reasons for this but then AAs must also understand why immigrants (black and non black) wonder about them. Why for example do AAs score as badly in English tests as do Hispanic and Asian immigrant kids, many coming from homes where English isn't spoken? .

If one looks at most racial groups in the USA the foreign born have lower median household incomes than is the case for US born. Not so with blacks where black immigrant households have higher median incomes. Now this can be explained for African immigrants who are among the most educated groups living in the USA, so this is a highly selective group. But Caribbean immigrants have similar levels of 4 year college attainment as do AAs and yet their median household incomes are higher. This largely because their labor force participation rates are higher.

The reality is that past racism has done severe damage to the psyche of a significant % of the AA population. Contemporary racism impacts all black groups identically as I see no proof that black immigrants are given preferential treatment, except for jobs that no one really wants.
Just posted something similar regarding immigrant perceptions. Well said.
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Old 02-07-2019, 02:38 AM
 
Location: Caribbean
7,577 posts, read 2,443,375 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarjieJ98354 View Post
I believe it more of the breakdown of the black American family that hurt us economically more than racism. Of course Racism is what killed the family, although most family life in America is broken down. Racist are always gonna be racist. But if black Americans have a strong black family, that can curb the tide of Racism. This is one thing that Africans do have going for them.
Very true. Family is everything. People say it casually but there is so much truth to it.
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Old 02-08-2019, 10:22 AM
 
24,247 posts, read 17,637,884 times
Reputation: 9170
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReineDeCoeur View Post
Not really. Immigrants push themselves because they want to be successful, not simply to spit on people. Many, if not the majority, have opportunities in the U.S. they never had where they come from. What they don’t understand is why others don’t grasp those same opportunities. A number of them lack understanding of the experiences others have had in the U.S.
Immigrant success is overblown, is my point.

White privilege (yes, there are lots of white immigrants) goes far beyond what any Black immigrant will get.

That was my point. Pushing means absolutely nothing if you don't have access.

And yes, look at all the first Black people to do this or that in the US (Halle Berry, Vanessa Williams, Thurgood Marshall, Adam Clayton Powell, Condoleeza Rice, etc). They were able to do so in part because of partial white ancestry. White privilege is that strong.

And apparently these morons like the understanding off their home nations as well. Black people aren't native to the Caribbean, there were brought there via the transatlantic slave trade. So the legacy of those sugarcane plantations is that the Caribbean is very poor, and thus people are desperate to immigrate. Of course, the history of slavery and subsequent exclusion is why you have considerable poverty among Americans.

I've been to the Spanish Caribbean and certainly saw a lot of poverty there, and the other islands I'm sure cannot much better.

All that money was made off Black people for centuries, whether we grew sugarcane or cotton.

The idea that some Caribbeans have to show that they are somehow better than "bad" African Americans is like a house slave mentality. It's the ultimate in self hatred. Because someone really comfortable in their own skin does not need to compare themselves to others, or even care what others are doing. You'd be able to assess yourself on what you've accomplished.

I've two Ivy League degrees, I've worked in academia, among other jobs in NYC and there were always almost NO other Black people doing the things I did. There were so few Black people at that level that any Black person I met was happy to see another Black person, and ethnicity wasn't an issue.

Another thing that probably distorts the perspective of Caribbean Blacks is many moved from the islands to the Northern ghettoes. Even during the 1800s, there were Black Americans who owned property.

I grew up in the rural South. It was the norm for Black people to work, to have cars (there's no public transportation, etc). It is the norm for people to own the property where they live. I'm not saying everyone is fine, but presenting AAs as "urban" completely distorts the history of the US and the current realities of African Americans, who still mostly live in the South.
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Old 02-08-2019, 07:50 PM
 
24,247 posts, read 17,637,884 times
Reputation: 9170
I remember some extreme cases of police brutality in NYC, and Caribbean men were victims just as match as AAs. Not only that but Black People are being displaced from much of the city. As a whole Blacks, whether Caribbean or African or African American are excluded from the nationís top opportunities abs jobs.

Itís so stupid and regarded and delusional to talk about this kind of Black versus that kind of Black. In an era where we have Black men killed by the state and that includes Caribbean.
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Old 02-09-2019, 08:55 AM
 
Location: Mishawaka, Indiana
6,514 posts, read 9,070,622 times
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I imagine it might be similar to a white American meeting a white European, two different countries, cultures, and likely languages. Why would it be any different with an African American?
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Old 02-09-2019, 12:52 PM
 
11,173 posts, read 2,774,431 times
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People need to take responsibility for their own lives and choices and stop playing the blame game. Stop using the excuse of slavery for being a failure. Guess what? Jews were slaves and have always been hated for centuries all over the world. Yet, strangely, they are among the most successful and highly educated ethnic group in the world.

I'm reminded of the classic political song by Tom Lehrer, "National Brotherhood Week"

Oh, the white folks hate the black folks,
And the black folks hate the white folks;
To hate all but the right folks
Is an old established rule.


But during National Brotherhood Week
National Brotherhood Week
Lena Horne and Sheriff Clark are dancing cheek to cheek
It's fun to eulogize
The people you despise
As long as you don't let them into your school

Oh, the poor folks hate the rich folks,
And the rich folks hate the poor folks.
All of my folks hate all of your folks,
It's American as apple pie.


National Brotherhood Week
National Brotherhood Week
New Yorkers love the Puerto Ricans 'cause it's very chic
Stand up and shake the hand
Of someone you can't stand
You can tolerate him if you try

Oh, the Protestants hate the Catholics
And the Catholics hate the Protestants,
And the Hindus hate the Moslems,
And everybody hates the Jews!


National Brotherhood Week
National Brotherhood Week
It's National Everyone Smile at One Anotherhood Week
Be nice to people who are inferior to you
It's only for a week so have no fear
Be grateful that it doesn't last all year!
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Old 02-09-2019, 01:06 PM
 
24,247 posts, read 17,637,884 times
Reputation: 9170
Quote:
Originally Posted by PilgrimsProgress View Post
People need to take responsibility for their own lives and choices and stop playing the blame game. Stop using the excuse of slavery for being a failure. Guess what? Jews were slaves and have always been hated for centuries all over the world. Yet, strangely, they are among the most successful and highly educated ethnic group in the world.

I'm reminded of the classic political song by Tom Lehrer, "National Brotherhood Week"

Oh, the white folks hate the black folks,
And the black folks hate the white folks;
To hate all but the right folks
Is an old established rule.


But during National Brotherhood Week
National Brotherhood Week
Lena Horne and Sheriff Clark are dancing cheek to cheek
It's fun to eulogize
The people you despise
As long as you don't let them into your school

Oh, the poor folks hate the rich folks,
And the rich folks hate the poor folks.
All of my folks hate all of your folks,
It's American as apple pie.


National Brotherhood Week
National Brotherhood Week
New Yorkers love the Puerto Ricans 'cause it's very chic
Stand up and shake the hand
Of someone you can't stand
You can tolerate him if you try

Oh, the Protestants hate the Catholics
And the Catholics hate the Protestants,
And the Hindus hate the Moslems,
And everybody hates the Jews!


National Brotherhood Week
National Brotherhood Week
It's National Everyone Smile at One Anotherhood Week
Be nice to people who are inferior to you
It's only for a week so have no fear
Be grateful that it doesn't last all year!
Most of the worldís Jewish population was sides about by genocide or forced to assimilate into the general population. A large chunk of what was left was murdered by the Holocaust. Today in America we have racists who shoot up synagogues and target Jewish schools. Thatís an example of how perceived success does not guarantee safety. In fact Jews were killed throughout history because of their role as bankers.

In fact there are articles about American Jews who feel so uncomfortable they are applying for German citizenship.
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