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Old 01-02-2014, 01:57 AM
 
366 posts, read 530,042 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motion View Post
Do any of you live in places where the two meet? If so what have their interactions been like?
I lived in LA and Seattle. Both have AA and Africans living near each other. Somalians and Ethiopians mainly. Heres my take and whats weird is that the issues were identical in both places with the shared communities:

Africans who were raised in Africa dont act, talk and in many ways look like African Americans. The dating between the 2 groups was very rare. In fact I saw more White women with African Americans than I did Africans with AA.

Africans ( Ethiopians mainly) tend to place a high value on education. They are somewhat clannish and have their own clubs,bars,soccer teams and restaurants in Seattle and LA. AA are rarely present at any of those establishments.

When I was in college the after school study was packed with so many Africans you would think you were in Africa. Yet despite much smaller numbers, they soundly had much larger numbers in college than AA did.

These are all first hand obs. so granted I cant say thats exactly how it is. But heres what I saw, Africans have an immigrant attitude and seem very grateful for living in this country. They dont harbor the animosity AA have against the government, whites, society and other minorities. They also place alot of emphasis on family and culture, whereas AA culture and marriage is nearly disintegrated.

On a personal note: Im latino, I once had a AA walk up behind me at a store run by Ethiopians and he told me how MUCH HE HATED THESE AFRICAN MOFOs. Now I cant say that the cultures hate each other but they definetly dont interact much at least in dating and hanging out.

I would say latinos have more in common with Africans than American blacks do since we share alot of the same values on family and even common interests such as sports. The children are also brought up very similar.

By the second generation though you can start to see Africans defining themselves as AA, their chldren listen to hiphop , call eachother ***** and dress like urban blacks. Kinda funny because everyone can plainly see they arent American bred blacks.
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Old 01-02-2014, 02:03 AM
 
366 posts, read 530,042 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markovian process View Post
Why do people feel the need to compare African-Americans to Africans so much, compared to say European-Americans and Europeans?

Black Americans are always being compared to more recent immigrants, from Jamaica, Uganda, Somalia etc. and identity politics and angst in debate keeps arising because of it, in terms of forcing a connection based on looks/ancestry alone, but White Americans rarely seem to get compared much to more recent immigrants from say, Ireland, Greece, or Russia etc. and forced to deal with the fact that there are some immigrants that happen to "look like you".

I don't mean to be rude, but there does seem to be an annoying double standard here.
I'm not against discussing topics like these, but it should be discussed in a consistent and unbiased way.
I think because the Euro culture and the American one are similar in regards to standards of living and well...running water electricty? Do latino Americans get compared to immigrant latinos? everyone can spot the difference in clothing, speech and culture between a Mexican and Mexican American.

African Americans have unique culture in America and I dont think it jives well with Africans. I guarantee by the 2nd generation the 2 groups will be well integrated, cause I see it now in how these Africans born in America are adopting black speech,dress, slang and even attitude.
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Old 01-02-2014, 06:50 AM
 
4,989 posts, read 6,403,660 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adanescobar View Post
I would say latinos have more in common with Africans than American blacks do since we share alot of the same values on family and even common interests such as sports. The children are also brought up very similar.
I live in the US Southwest where there are a lot of Latinos, so this statement intrigued me (There is a hell of a lot of negative stereotyping of Latinos here). What I see is a lot of dumping on African Americans in this forum; an almost casual acceptance by some that all African Americans share the negative values described in stereotypes. There is also, by some, a concomitant and uncritical elevation of Whites, Asians and Africans to some very unrealistic and lofty heights.

To be blunt, there is a lot of ignorance being expressed by immigrants about African Americans; and seemingly little knowledge of their history.

Compared to Latinos, African Americans actually have a much higher secondary school graduation rate.
https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=16

Not to derail this thread, but to illustrate how complicated societal factors can be and how people have to be careful about stereotyping, it’s also interesting that Latinos now surpass Whites in college enrollment rates:
Analysis: 2012 Higher Education Enrollment Rate of Latino High School Graduates Surpassed That of Whites - Higher Education

Latinos, Blacks and Asians, in general, are currently more optimistic about the value of a college education, than are Whites:
Why Minorities Are More Optimistic About the Value of College - NationalJournal.com

To not consider this data and just looking at the low Latino high school graduation rates, one could just as easily say that Latinos don’t value education.

Likewise, comparing the behaviors of a preselected group of immigrants (Africans) who, with much assistance, have already climbed some hurdles, to the entirety of African Americans, is silly. They benefit from the Post-Civil rights era, as do all minorities.

Besides, does anyone really think that most Africans in Africa are all the same; or are all well-educated?

Anyone heard of AIDS in Africa? Is there no violence in Africa? How about child and other soldiers; and what of their murderous acts and rapes of women and children? Ever heard of African truckers who frequent prostitutes and spread AIDS when they return back home? What about the rapes of innocent babies and young girls in South Africa by men who think they can cure their AIDS affliction that way? What about the killings of albinos due to silly superstitions? What about the genital mutilations of young girls? How about African street thugs who prey on the innocent in large African cities?

Would anyone with any intellectual honesty compare the behaviors and educational attainments of African American visitors to Africa, to those of the indigenous populations? Of course not. They are middle to upper income and well-educated. There is also probably little to zero percent chance they, as compared to an “average” African in say, Nairobi or Johannesburg, would commit any sort of street crime. On a personal note, I have a friend, an African American doctor, who actually travels to Africa to help Africans with their health care and tries to improve conditions there. I have also read of other African Americans who are doing similar things.

See how that works?

Just one more thing, to the African guy who complains that American Blacks are the only ones to ask him silly questions. Ever think about the fact that they at least ask, but most everyone else just assumes the negative about Africans?

Do you really think they, African Americans, are the ones who made and exported Tarzan movies????

Last edited by pacific2; 01-02-2014 at 07:16 AM..
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Old 01-02-2014, 12:35 PM
 
6,575 posts, read 9,098,401 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pacific2 View Post

To be blunt, there is a lot of ignorance being expressed by immigrants about African Americans; and seemingly little knowledge of their history.
Yes. But I will admit this lack of knowledge about each sides history and experience goes both ways. Both sides are looking at each others condition without knowing how each side got that way. More Africans needs to look into the "sociology" of Black-America. That's why I left some info by sociologist William Julius Wilson back in a previous post. He explains the root causes of the high crime and family breakdown we see in Black-America.

Interview With William Julius Wilson | The Two Nations Of Black America | FRONTLINE | PBS
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Old 01-03-2014, 11:36 AM
 
7,454 posts, read 5,959,909 times
Reputation: 3804
Quote:
Originally Posted by pacific2 View Post
I live in the US Southwest where there are a lot of Latinos, so this statement intrigued me (There is a hell of a lot of negative stereotyping of Latinos here). What I see is a lot of dumping on African Americans in this forum; an almost casual acceptance by some that all African Americans share the negative values described in stereotypes.

Just one more thing, to the African guy who complains that American Blacks are the only ones to ask him silly questions. Ever think about the fact that they at least ask, but most everyone else just assumes the negative about Africans?

Do you really think they, African Americans, are the ones who made and exported Tarzan movies????

African immigrants to the USA are a very selective group. Africa has the lowest literacy on this planet. Yet African migrants to the USA are the most educated of all European groups.

If one wants to do a comparison maybe they need to look at Africans who migrate to France. A far less selective group. And their kids are with the North Africans filling out the French underclass.

If the US had a similar pattern of African migration we can ponder whether the colleges will be packed with them. And the problems of the second generation (US born or arriving in the USA as small kids) of Somalis is well known.
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Old 01-03-2014, 12:37 PM
 
433 posts, read 690,684 times
Reputation: 279
I could join in this back and forth and defend Black Americans vs Africans but I will not. I purposely used Black instead of African because we are not African. Anyways biafra said only Black women work as janitors. Where do you live? Cause you really only find Black maids now in the South and Caribbean ones in New York. Most low level jobs elsewhere are done by Mexicans. Also I will add that I made the mistake of marrying an African woman from Kenya before my current (American born Black wife). I would also advise Black Americans not to marrying Africans. Africans have silly cultural traditions that do not mesh with American values. My African ex-wife abandon our marriage twice to go to Canada with her parents. Second time said she was not coming back and it was her duty to stay and help her parents (and they were not sick or anything. One is a professor and government worker and the other worked). Then she tells me she is pregnant supposedly with my child and if I try to get custody she will take him to Kenya and I never can see him. After he is born he is given a Kenyan Kalejin name and her father's last name. Anyways my point American Blacks should not marrying Africans.

At the end of the day we are still talking about the people who sold our ancestors into slavery. African chiefs urged to apologise for slave trade | World news | The Guardian

The only cool Africans I have met have been from Senegal, Sierra Leone, Liberia or Congolese.
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Old 01-03-2014, 03:55 PM
 
366 posts, read 530,042 times
Reputation: 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by pacific2 View Post
I live in the US Southwest where there are a lot of Latinos, so this statement intrigued me (There is a hell of a lot of negative stereotyping of Latinos here). What I see is a lot of dumping on African Americans in this forum; an almost casual acceptance by some that all African Americans share the negative values described in stereotypes. There is also, by some, a concomitant and uncritical elevation of Whites, Asians and Africans to some very unrealistic and lofty heights.

To be blunt, there is a lot of ignorance being expressed by immigrants about African Americans; and seemingly little knowledge of their history.

Compared to Latinos, African Americans actually have a much higher secondary school graduation rate.
https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=16

Not to derail this thread, but to illustrate how complicated societal factors can be and how people have to be careful about stereotyping, itís also interesting that Latinos now surpass Whites in college enrollment rates:
Analysis: 2012 Higher Education Enrollment Rate of Latino High School Graduates Surpassed That of Whites - Higher Education

Latinos, Blacks and Asians, in general, are currently more optimistic about the value of a college education, than are Whites:
Why Minorities Are More Optimistic About the Value of College - NationalJournal.com

To not consider this data and just looking at the low Latino high school graduation rates, one could just as easily say that Latinos donít value education.

Likewise, comparing the behaviors of a preselected group of immigrants (Africans) who, with much assistance, have already climbed some hurdles, to the entirety of African Americans, is silly. They benefit from the Post-Civil rights era, as do all minorities.

Besides, does anyone really think that most Africans in Africa are all the same; or are all well-educated?

Anyone heard of AIDS in Africa? Is there no violence in Africa? How about child and other soldiers; and what of their murderous acts and rapes of women and children? Ever heard of African truckers who frequent prostitutes and spread AIDS when they return back home? What about the rapes of innocent babies and young girls in South Africa by men who think they can cure their AIDS affliction that way? What about the killings of albinos due to silly superstitions? What about the genital mutilations of young girls? How about African street thugs who prey on the innocent in large African cities?

Would anyone with any intellectual honesty compare the behaviors and educational attainments of African American visitors to Africa, to those of the indigenous populations? Of course not. They are middle to upper income and well-educated. There is also probably little to zero percent chance they, as compared to an ďaverageĒ African in say, Nairobi or Johannesburg, would commit any sort of street crime. On a personal note, I have a friend, an African American doctor, who actually travels to Africa to help Africans with their health care and tries to improve conditions there. I have also read of other African Americans who are doing similar things.

See how that works?

Just one more thing, to the African guy who complains that American Blacks are the only ones to ask him silly questions. Ever think about the fact that they at least ask, but most everyone else just assumes the negative about Africans?

Do you really think they, African Americans, are the ones who made and exported Tarzan movies????
To not consider this data and just looking at the low Latino high school graduation rates, one could just as easily say that Latinos donít value education.


KEEPING IT REAL AS A LATINO, they dont! In general. I was one of only a handful of my original freshman class who graduated high school, and one of a very few whom I knew who went on to secondary school. Why teetoe around the obvious? Latinos dont value education as much because most latinos come from blue collar families. This isnt just talk these are facts. Until Latinos begin changing their views on education they'll be stuck in labor related jobs.
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Old 01-03-2014, 04:00 PM
 
366 posts, read 530,042 times
Reputation: 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by pacific2 View Post
I live in the US Southwest where there are a lot of Latinos, so this statement intrigued me (There is a hell of a lot of negative stereotyping of Latinos here). What I see is a lot of dumping on African Americans in this forum; an almost casual acceptance by some that all African Americans share the negative values described in stereotypes. There is also, by some, a concomitant and uncritical elevation of Whites, Asians and Africans to some very unrealistic and lofty heights.

To be blunt, there is a lot of ignorance being expressed by immigrants about African Americans; and seemingly little knowledge of their history.

Compared to Latinos, African Americans actually have a much higher secondary school graduation rate.
https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=16

Not to derail this thread, but to illustrate how complicated societal factors can be and how people have to be careful about stereotyping, itís also interesting that Latinos now surpass Whites in college enrollment rates:
Analysis: 2012 Higher Education Enrollment Rate of Latino High School Graduates Surpassed That of Whites - Higher Education

Latinos, Blacks and Asians, in general, are currently more optimistic about the value of a college education, than are Whites:
Why Minorities Are More Optimistic About the Value of College - NationalJournal.com

To not consider this data and just looking at the low Latino high school graduation rates, one could just as easily say that Latinos donít value education.

Likewise, comparing the behaviors of a preselected group of immigrants (Africans) who, with much assistance, have already climbed some hurdles, to the entirety of African Americans, is silly. They benefit from the Post-Civil rights era, as do all minorities.

Besides, does anyone really think that most Africans in Africa are all the same; or are all well-educated?

Anyone heard of AIDS in Africa? Is there no violence in Africa? How about child and other soldiers; and what of their murderous acts and rapes of women and children? Ever heard of African truckers who frequent prostitutes and spread AIDS when they return back home? What about the rapes of innocent babies and young girls in South Africa by men who think they can cure their AIDS affliction that way? What about the killings of albinos due to silly superstitions? What about the genital mutilations of young girls? How about African street thugs who prey on the innocent in large African cities?

Would anyone with any intellectual honesty compare the behaviors and educational attainments of African American visitors to Africa, to those of the indigenous populations? Of course not. They are middle to upper income and well-educated. There is also probably little to zero percent chance they, as compared to an ďaverageĒ African in say, Nairobi or Johannesburg, would commit any sort of street crime. On a personal note, I have a friend, an African American doctor, who actually travels to Africa to help Africans with their health care and tries to improve conditions there. I have also read of other African Americans who are doing similar things.

See how that works?

Just one more thing, to the African guy who complains that American Blacks are the only ones to ask him silly questions. Ever think about the fact that they at least ask, but most everyone else just assumes the negative about Africans?

Do you really think they, African Americans, are the ones who made and exported Tarzan movies????
Besides, does anyone really think that most Africans in Africa are all the same; or are all well-educated?


No it just so happens that the ones who are granted visas are educated and sometimes well off in their home countries. You should check out the requirements of being sponsored for arrival in USA. Its hard to get passports to visit USA if you arent well off in your own country. The immigration laws have changed drastically since 9-11. Therefore this leads to better educated , more successful immigrants on the African side making it to America. They have a head start.
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Old 01-04-2014, 12:29 AM
 
6,575 posts, read 9,098,401 times
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Originally Posted by SippiStateBulldogs View Post

At the end of the day we are still talking about the people who sold our ancestors into slavery.
That's an over simplified way of portraying the slave trade.

The ancestors of your Kenyan wife had nothing to do with the trans-Atlantic slave trade. That slave trade involved west and central Africans and not east or southern Africans. Plus everybody's ancestors got sold. Tribes that sold slaves also got sold into slavery themselves.
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Old 01-04-2014, 03:11 PM
 
433 posts, read 690,684 times
Reputation: 279
Quote:
Originally Posted by Motion View Post
That's an over simplified way of portraying the slave trade.

The ancestors of your Kenyan wife had nothing to do with the trans-Atlantic slave trade. That slave trade involved west and central Africans and not east or southern Africans. Plus everybody's ancestors got sold. Tribes that sold slaves also got sold into slavery themselves.
I know this bro. I never said my Kenyan wife ancestor had anything to with that. I used to upset my Africana studies professor's with changed American names to Swahili one. I'd be like "But were not the Swahili a mixed East African people with Arabs, Persians, and Asians? Is not there language a mixture of Bantu words, chinese, Arabic, and Persian? A trade language. No Black American slaves came from East Africa." Yea needless to say that made them angry. That is also why I laugh at Kwaanza.

I see how we operate as a people. I have Caribbean in-laws in my family, I and my cousin married an African, and we are regular Black Americans. I have experienced the entire Pan-African thing. We all share greed and lack of loyalty in common. So do not feed me that Africans are not responsible in the slave trade.
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