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Old 03-30-2019, 02:53 PM
 
24,247 posts, read 17,643,654 times
Reputation: 9170

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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
No they are not wrong. There is nothing that can get 14 impoverished nations to compel Europe to pay reparations when ALL of the world's wealthiest nations are against it.

And there is the obvious problem that there is no one alive in the Americas who was either a slave or directly descended from one so it is difficult to litigate. The examples that you mention all refer to people who were directly impacted. There are still people living who were alive in WWII as difficult as it might be for you to imagine it.

The UK isnt going to give us citizenship either, especially after they gave us independence and we proudly waved our flags and kissed them goodbye. And do we want citizenship from Ghana, Nigeria, Togo, DRC or Congo Republic? No! Just about every Caribbean nation is better off with the possible exception of Haiti.


The UK in particular isnt going to pay reparations because claims from India and Ireland alone will bankrupt that country. Research the history of Ireland and it isnt pretty with their famines and forced labor that was sent to UK colonies in the Caribbean and North America.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...entury-n985456

This African American is suing for the ownership of her slavery ancestor photos that Harvard is profiting from.

Yes, at least some individual West Indians could indeed get restitution of sorts, but it would involve carefully going over their family history.

This woman learned Harvard was profiting off images of her ancestors and is suing........,

She got a lawyer to take her case......,

No one is alive from the conquests of the Americas, and yet Native Americans do indeed get reparations. In parts of Latin America certain numbers of university seats and government jobs have to be reserved for Native Americans and those of African descent. This is a form of reparations.
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Old 04-19-2019, 07:29 PM
 
17 posts, read 28,275 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
To a point, I disagree. History means nothing. My grandparents came to America from Russia, escaping the oppression of the Tsar. That is completely meaningless to me, and has made no contribution whatsoever to who I am as a person.

A Black American and a Black African have nothing in common whatsoever, any more so than a White American and White African. They may, incidentally, be able to find some common ground if they both grew up in a place where Blacks were subjected to discrimination or oppression. But no living Black American was directly affected by Slavery, and very few old enough to have been directly affected by Segretation. Similarly, very few Black Africans are old enough to have been directly affected by Colonialism. However historically important those phenomena are, a Black American and a Black African meeting in the street have not been influenced at all in their lifetimes by slavery, segregation or colonialism. No more so than I and a 25 year old Russian have any common experience of serfdom or oppression in Russia.

As an aside, has it occurred to you that Barack Obama did not spend one single day of his childhood living in an African-American household, society or neighborhood, and cannot know from personal experience that that would be like. He is the 44th US president to be raised as a white child by a white family in a white social framework. It would be "unnatural" for Obama to assume that he has anything in common with even a Black American, much less a Black African.
This response just shows how much people need to learn before they speak about other people's experiences. As a black African, I find that there are several areas, quite many where my values are more aligned to the immigrant values, than to African American values. That refers to our family life, values, aspirations, choices, etc. So we may find more similarities with an Indian immigrant than with an average African American.
But to say that Colonialism and segregation does not directly affect both our communities ignores the generational economic impact of these systems that disadvantage the African American and Black African till date. You can look at access to capital, passed down wealth, access to education as well as barriers to climbing the economic ladder.
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Old 05-07-2019, 05:04 PM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,942,608 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Odyssey77 View Post
But to say that Colonialism and segregation does not directly affect both our communities ignores the generational economic impact of these systems that disadvantage the African American and Black African till date. You can look at access to capital, passed down wealth, access to education as well as barriers to climbing the economic ladder.


The USA ensures that black Africans and other blacks will share a bond, whether they wish to or not. The longer the black immigrant lives in the USA the more they see that they considered "black" and not "immigrant".


And before others begin to chime, the same also applies to Canada and Europe. The poor French Antilleans must always prove to white Frenchmen that they are just as French and aren't immigrants.
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Old 05-07-2019, 05:08 PM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,942,608 times
Reputation: 3799
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...entury-n985456

This African American is suing for the ownership of her slavery ancestor photos that Harvard is profiting from.

Yes, at least some individual West Indians could indeed get restitution of sorts, but it would involve carefully going over their family history.

This woman learned Harvard was profiting off images of her ancestors and is suing........,

She got a lawyer to take her case......,

No one is alive from the conquests of the Americas, and yet Native Americans do indeed get reparations. In parts of Latin America certain numbers of university seats and government jobs have to be reserved for Native Americans and those of African descent. This is a form of reparations.




This woman I don't think won her case. The time and the energy that these cases take is IMHO not worth it.


I just wish that blacks in the USA debate away from reparations from slavery and talk more about the destruction that the post Reconstruction era created and even more relevant, racist acts by the Federal gov't in the post WWII era. Then we will not here about "African chiefs", or "my ancestors never owned slaves" excuses.


Its a disgrace that blacks acquired significant amounts of assets after slavery, only to have this stolen from them when Jim Crow was put in place.


What you describe in Latin America is a quota system which is proven not to work. You know Bolsonaro and the right wing leader in Colombia would end this, assuming that it still exists.
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Old 05-20-2019, 05:55 AM
 
24,247 posts, read 17,643,654 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
This woman I don't think won her case. The time and the energy that these cases take is IMHO not worth it.


I just wish that blacks in the USA debate away from reparations from slavery and talk more about the destruction that the post Reconstruction era created and even more relevant, racist acts by the Federal gov't in the post WWII era. Then we will not here about "African chiefs", or "my ancestors never owned slaves" excuses.


Its a disgrace that blacks acquired significant amounts of assets after slavery, only to have this stolen from them when Jim Crow was put in place.


What you describe in Latin America is a quota system which is proven not to work. You know Bolsonaro and the right wing leader in Colombia would end this, assuming that it still exists.
It actually is to her. Her case is still ongoing. Who knows what will happen, but yes she is owned that money if those are her ancestors pictures.

The only reason why there are any professional Blacks at all is because the government forced universities to accept people other than white men. Yes, Ivy League and other white universities have to show to the government that they accept people of all races in order to get government funding.

You said you have a degree from an Ivy League school, then you were a beneficiary of it and so was I twice.

For that matter there can be reparations for what was stolen during Jim Crow, if those records exist and if people can prove it.

US immigration policies favored immigration from European nations. The same administration that created the EEOC and other civil rights legislation also ended discrimination in immigration, substantially opening up the US to third world immigration. Without this you might not even be in the country, much less have a degree from an US university.

Re: those affirmative actions programs have created a Black middle class in South America and they exist. South American governments change from right to left and left to right all the time, even if the programs are ended they will come back. And yes its a form of reparations, and they have them for Natives too.


Greece is currently suing Germany for reparations for WW2. As noted, Jews got reparations in multiple forms for WW2. Germany even had to write checks to Israel.

The descendents of those who lost German citizenship due to the Holocaust can get German citizenship (ditto Poland). Spain and Portugal offer any descendent of expelled Sephardic Jews citizenship. Israel itself offers any practice Jew citizenship, those with Jewish grandparents or parents can get Israeli citizenship, and even people with distant Jewish ancestry can get Israeli citizenship if they have certain rabbis perform a return to Judaism.

Jewish people are able as awhole to do much better than any kind of Black people in part because they have global support networks that simply are not available to most people of African descent (they are available to me because Im part Sephardic).

Youre actually short changing Black people because hardwork alone is not going to get anyone anywhere. Many Black people work hard and die of strokes or diabetes in their 50s. And they die poor.
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Old 05-21-2019, 03:43 PM
 
3,126 posts, read 6,841,928 times
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It is insanely silly for people to say that African Americans or those in the Diaspora should stop fighting for reparations especially since they have built most countries and industries everyone benefits from currently.

Every person that went and or earned a degree from a college that their parents didn't pay to get them into the school earned their degree. Affirmative action didn't pay for the school nor did it pass the participant. When funding and teaching at the grade school level is equal to poor and rich areas then maybe there wouldn't be a need for affirmative action. Sadly most people of color aren't going to college or you'd have more people educated than in jail.

There were many black professionals and even inventors prior to affirmative action and they were called slaves. Inventions were stolen and credit given to the counterparts. I've seen too many white people have jobs that they are not qualified for and get paid high wages as opposed to the educated black person who has more work experience. The only reason why the white person got the job over the black person was because they knew someone or because they were white.
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Old 05-23-2019, 07:12 AM
 
Location: London, UK
2,876 posts, read 1,553,966 times
Reputation: 1621
Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
You know Bolsonaro and the right wing leader in Colombia would end this, assuming that it still exists.
Just an FYI. It's in the 1991 constitution and the previous Colombian right wing leader Uribe didn't end it, in fact he strengthened. You always seem to get it wrong with Colombia out of your ignorance. The issue in Colombia is the implementation as insurgent militia groups and cartels make it difficult to implement in the remote regions where mainly Black and Native Americans live. However, Colombian law for Afro-Colombians and Native Americans is pretty solid - Many Afro-Colombian communities are title-holders of their traditional lands similar to Natives. No other country in Latin America or the US has 2 Black majority, Black-lead states, even Bahia in Brazil is White/Mixed majority.

As for reparations I definitely think its an argument black people the world over should be demanding even if it doesn't come to fruition. However, it shouldn't be the main focus and all energies should be targeted more towards the present and future than the past.

Last edited by Pueblofuerte; 05-23-2019 at 07:21 AM..
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Old 05-23-2019, 10:33 AM
 
3,126 posts, read 6,841,928 times
Reputation: 1554
Pueblofuerte and others,

Reparations and the aftermath of slavery are very present as of today. Ask white people to get rid of the confederate flag or stop idealizing slave owners, get rid of southern civil war statues and monuments of the people that lost the civil war (the fight to put up or keep statues/figures only means that certain people haven't gotten over the past), offer free ancestral DNA testing for the diaspora, stop fabricating history, and stop making slave movies, stop killing black men, when a police office on tape kills an unarmed black man because they asked him to sit down or because they have a cell phone in their hand maybe they should start going to jail, stop following black people in the stores, create schools where everyone can get the same education, if black people are hired pay them as you would their counterparts and not significantly less, have fair lending practices, stop going to other countries and starting wars, stop going to African countries and stealing resources and continuing colonization practices, stop thinking that black people are inferior, get rid of the KK, tell white people to get over slavery etc maybe that might help equal the playing field or maybe then black people can focus on the future/current day and stop thinking about slavery.

When Obama was President half of the country couldn't get over the past.

While we are at it let's get rid of MAGA and just emphasize on MAG!

Last edited by bayarea-girl; 05-23-2019 at 10:56 AM.. Reason: Forgot to make an additional point
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Old 05-23-2019, 02:17 PM
 
Location: Seattle
869 posts, read 325,951 times
Reputation: 930
I took a Uber last time I was in Chicago. The driver was from Ghana. He worked part time and he was about to finish his nursing degree. Let's just say the guy went on a hour long tirade on this topic that I wasn't really in the mood to hear. But he let his opinion be known....Lot's on anger on this issue.
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