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Old 05-21-2017, 07:49 PM
 
691 posts, read 920,581 times
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I think by the 3rd generation, people are completely culturally Americanized. One Nigerian friend told me only Americans and
South Africans are obsessed with "race".. The rest of the world thinks in terms of ethnicity and culture first. In my experience
Africans think of themselves in this order: ethnic group, nation, region then black. For example, Yoruba, Nigerian, West African and then Black. Skin color being of no more importance than hair color.

They come to the United States and a "Black" identity is forced on them by Americans in general especially if it is people they don't know. They are thrown into the American "Black" vs. "White" thing where Black and White Americans try to put them into the American racial hang-up. This also happens to black immigrants from the Caribbean also I think.

I think Africans in general are very proud and confident people who speak their mind..which might come across as arrogant to some Americans.
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Old 05-21-2017, 08:07 PM
 
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Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
It's hard for Americans to get visas to remain in Europe long term, and those that do tend to be highly educated and skilled and/or talented artists or graduate students.

Because of colonial ties, refugee policy and because Europe is close, it's just a lot easier for poor Africans and Middle Easterners to get to Europe than the US. .
Iheir initial entry may or may not be legal, but they are seen by the locals as being either illegal entrants or people seeking refugee status.

The profile of West Africans in the UK is virtually the same as in the USA. They tend to be better educated than the average white English person. In fact they contribute to the fact that immigrant kids in London outperform local WHITE kids. Of course some impute this to some innate African value system as they play the divide and rule between African immigrants and the British blacks. Its merely comparing chalk and cheese. Obviously the offspring of a highly educated group will tend to do well in the educational system.
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Old 05-21-2017, 08:10 PM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,941,189 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agbor View Post
I think by the 3rd generation, people are completely culturally Americanized. One Nigerian friend told me only Americans and
South Africans are obsessed with "race".. The rest of the world thinks in terms of ethnicity and culture first. .
This is because other countries racialize ethnicity and culture. In Europe blacks are defined as "immigrants" even after 3 generations. So the same objective is achieved.

Nigeria is 99.99999% black so clearly race will not be the issue. Those who aren't black will be considered foreigners. Whether Nigerian born or not.
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Old 05-21-2017, 08:29 PM
 
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Originally Posted by jgn2013 View Post
Agreed.

There are lots of cream-of-the-crop black Americans but most Africans don't travel in those social circles. A successful African immigrant is far more likely to blend with other Africans or even whites. All immigrant groups are taught to see the country through a white American narrative and it takes lots of exposure to black Americans before they start to see a clearer picture. It's why the average immigrant is far more familiar with the black underclass than they are with the largely rural white underclass. White poverty, drugs, crime etc in Appalachia, the Rust Belt, the deep South is not given much shine in the media and is virtually invisible to a 1st generation immigrant arrives in D.C., New York City or Houston.
The bougie "Jack and Jill" type of AA are often "racist" towards black immigrants, so even if there is contact the black immigrant will stay away. This AA elite often want to establish how "American" they are as they seek to establish their own ties with the mainstream.

Recent immigrants measure their success by comparing themselves to the group that is at the bottom. Their need to succeed and to learn how to survive leads them to believe the narratives of those who they will need to be connected to in order to succeed. Invariably these will be white employers.

Whites also play a divide and rule game by telling them that they are "better" than AAs. Newly arrived immigrants tend to be less confrontational as they are still in their honeymoon stage of believing the "American Dream". So whites often feel comfortable with them.

Over time with missed promotions (due to implicit bias in the job market) and as their US born kids encounter issues these views evolve. While they will still distinguish themselves from AAs, and deplore the poorer segment, they begin to see themselves as blacks, even though with a highly defined pan ethnic identity. They will more likely confront situations where they see race being an issue, and will seek like minded AAs as allies.

They also begin to develop a network of professional AAs so understand that the issue of race isn't as simple as they initially thought. In addition their US born kids grow, and confront racism. These kids are less sheltered in the ethnic enclave, so interact more often with Americans, and also see themselves as Americans, therefore no less deserving of rewards.

Unlike their parents, who have the psychic security of returning home if the USA doesn't live up to its promise these kids feel that they must fight for change. Its no accident that some of the more militant actors in the Civil Rights movement had immigrant origins.
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Old 05-22-2017, 10:27 AM
 
Location: Harlem
21 posts, read 13,200 times
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So glad i found this part of the forum. I'm 23, born and raised in NYC to Dominican parents. (Both of my parents clearly have black roots) so I know that I'm african. Thats the race aspect of the situation though. Culturally, black people in america are discombobulated. Why do you think you see latinos and chinese in nyc looking so happy, walking around so proud, you go to their neighborhoods and they have businesses owned by THEM, they have lots of babies. they are proud. Blacks in america hate themselves. our communities look like crap. No black owned businesses. Black men date outside their race more than any other race in America. We own NO, Absolutely NO hospitals, manufacturing plants, cargo/trade companies, grocery stores, hardware stores, etc. We constantly have to use white institutions, but whites never need to use ours, because we dont have any. I'm not going to live my life like this. Being black means you have to beg for the respect of latinos, asians, and whites. I'm moving to Dakar, Senegal. I have read that they are open to us coming back. Hopefully one day black culture can regain some type of collectiveness. I am just not a fan of acting white to fit in, making money and moving to a good (aka white) neighborhood. I love some white people and have white friends but im not going to support white supremacy. In america, in Washington DC, New Orleans, Atlanta, Baltimore, Mississippi, Alabama (the cities with the largest black populations), there are no black schools, no positive black development. The government took trade programs out of the schools, introduced crack into the neighborhoods and made the hip hop artists and athletes the role models. now the black community is in shambles. I'd rather go to africa, live in the sun, and share with my people whats going on in America than to live here, fight for my life to get a white girlfriend, move to the suburbs and try to make myself feel happy about that for the rest of my life.
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Old 05-22-2017, 10:33 AM
 
Location: Harlem
21 posts, read 13,200 times
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on a positive note, I WILL SAY that most individual people are nice to and respect black people. Ive worked with asians, indians, and whites that have been nice. Treated blacks just like anyone else, and judged them based on performance, character, etc. But as long as there is no black economic foundation, cultural system, moral collectiveness, blacks will not be a force to reckoned with as a group. Why is it that you respect a hasidic jew when you see him? You know he supports jewish schools, ambulances, shops, JEWISH PEOPLE. when you see a black person you dont know what the hell he supports, and therefore he can be compromised.
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Old 05-22-2017, 10:41 AM
AFP
 
6,898 posts, read 4,247,788 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilgreenSDL View Post
So glad i found this part of the forum. I'm 23, born and raised in NYC to Dominican parents. (Both of my parents clearly have black roots) so I know that I'm african. Thats the race aspect of the situation though. Culturally, black people in america are discombobulated. Why do you think you see latinos and chinese in nyc looking so happy, walking around so proud, you go to their neighborhoods and they have businesses owned by THEM, they have lots of babies. they are proud. Blacks in america hate themselves. our communities look like crap. No black owned businesses. Black men date outside their race more than any other race in America. We own NO, Absolutely NO hospitals, manufacturing plants, cargo/trade companies, grocery stores, hardware stores, etc. We constantly have to use white institutions, but whites never need to use ours, because we dont have any. I'm not going to live my life like this. Being black means you have to beg for the respect of latinos, asians, and whites. I'm moving to Dakar, Senegal. I have read that they are open to us coming back. Hopefully one day black culture can regain some type of collectiveness. I am just not a fan of acting white to fit in, making money and moving to a good (aka white) neighborhood. I love some white people and have white friends but im not going to support white supremacy. In america, in Washington DC, New Orleans, Atlanta, Baltimore, Mississippi, Alabama (the cities with the largest black populations), there are no black schools, no positive black development. The government took trade programs out of the schools, introduced crack into the neighborhoods and made the hip hop artists and athletes the role models. now the black community is in shambles. I'd rather go to africa, live in the sun, and share with my people whats going on in America than to live here, fight for my life to get a white girlfriend, move to the suburbs and try to make myself feel happy about that for the rest of my life.
I'm not black but have don't some research on this topic. Several African countries are open to Black people from the America's moving there particularly if you have money to invest. I doubt you will be viewed as coming back by the locals you much more likely will be viewed as a rich foreigner with big money bags which everyone will want a piece of. In some cases if you are a black person with lighter skin pigmentation you will not even be viewed as a black person.
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Old 05-22-2017, 01:54 PM
 
Location: West of Louisiana, East of New Mexico
2,536 posts, read 2,031,464 times
Reputation: 5830
Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
The bougie "Jack and Jill" type of AA are often "racist" towards black immigrants, so even if there is contact the black immigrant will stay away. This AA elite often want to establish how "American" they are as they seek to establish their own ties with the mainstream.

Recent immigrants measure their success by comparing themselves to the group that is at the bottom. Their need to succeed and to learn how to survive leads them to believe the narratives of those who they will need to be connected to in order to succeed. Invariably these will be white employers.

Whites also play a divide and rule game by telling them that they are "better" than AAs. Newly arrived immigrants tend to be less confrontational as they are still in their honeymoon stage of believing the "American Dream". So whites often feel comfortable with them.

Over time with missed promotions (due to implicit bias in the job market) and as their US born kids encounter issues these views evolve. While they will still distinguish themselves from AAs, and deplore the poorer segment, they begin to see themselves as blacks, even though with a highly defined pan ethnic identity. They will more likely confront situations where they see race being an issue, and will seek like minded AAs as allies.

They also begin to develop a network of professional AAs so understand that the issue of race isn't as simple as they initially thought. In addition their US born kids grow, and confront racism. These kids are less sheltered in the ethnic enclave, so interact more often with Americans, and also see themselves as Americans, therefore no less deserving of rewards.

Unlike their parents, who have the psychic security of returning home if the USA doesn't live up to its promise these kids feel that they must fight for change. Its no accident that some of the more militant actors in the Civil Rights movement had immigrant origins.
Agreed.

I had this very conversation with a good friend of mine who happens to be Nigerian. His cousin married an American white woman. The cousin makes friends everywhere he goes but for some reason, he's never connected with many AA's. His closest friends are almost exclusively white Americans with a few Nigerian-Americans thrown in. My friend was explaining to him that his children will be viewed as black and will likely experience the world through that lens despite being biracial Nigerian/Scots-Irish white. The two kids are still small but they don't "look" bi-racial, if that makes any sense....not much different from a Will Smith or Queen Latifah in appearance. Certainly black enough where no one will assume different unless told otherwise.

I'm curious to see how this plays out. My friend's cousin never really went through any kind of socialization with black kids and his wife (a very caring and sweet woman) attended all-white schools and had never dated a man that wasn't white prior to meeting her husband. The kids will have a strong sense of self regarding their white and African heritage...which is good. However, I don't know who'll be there to help them navigate the world as 'black' people. My friend's cousin has a pronounced accent and name that leaves no doubt where he's likely from. In some ways it seems to make him less threatening despite him actually being a physically intimidating guy. People that are uncomfortable around me will gladly invite him to their house lol!
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Old 05-22-2017, 02:09 PM
 
Location: West of Louisiana, East of New Mexico
2,536 posts, read 2,031,464 times
Reputation: 5830
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilgreenSDL View Post
So glad i found this part of the forum. I'm 23, born and raised in NYC to Dominican parents. (Both of my parents clearly have black roots) so I know that I'm african. Thats the race aspect of the situation though. Culturally, black people in america are discombobulated. Why do you think you see latinos and chinese in nyc looking so happy, walking around so proud, you go to their neighborhoods and they have businesses owned by THEM, they have lots of babies. they are proud. Blacks in america hate themselves. our communities look like crap. No black owned businesses. Black men date outside their race more than any other race in America. We own NO, Absolutely NO hospitals, manufacturing plants, cargo/trade companies, grocery stores, hardware stores, etc. We constantly have to use white institutions, but whites never need to use ours, because we dont have any. I'm not going to live my life like this. Being black means you have to beg for the respect of latinos, asians, and whites. I'm moving to Dakar, Senegal. I have read that they are open to us coming back. Hopefully one day black culture can regain some type of collectiveness. I am just not a fan of acting white to fit in, making money and moving to a good (aka white) neighborhood. I love some white people and have white friends but im not going to support white supremacy. In america, in Washington DC, New Orleans, Atlanta, Baltimore, Mississippi, Alabama (the cities with the largest black populations), there are no black schools, no positive black development. The government took trade programs out of the schools, introduced crack into the neighborhoods and made the hip hop artists and athletes the role models. now the black community is in shambles. I'd rather go to africa, live in the sun, and share with my people whats going on in America than to live here, fight for my life to get a white girlfriend, move to the suburbs and try to make myself feel happy about that for the rest of my life.

Blacks can definitely improve on the small business side, but until we control the decision making at financial institutions (handing out small business loans), we're going to be limited. Even among ethnic Asians and Latinos, most of the businesses you see are restaurants, convenience stores, dry cleaners etc. Small operations that aren't going to employ many people.

Black men don't really date out their race as much as people think. The most common IR pairings are white/Latino and white/Asian. Despite being in the nation for 400 years, black Americans are still extremely "pure" compared to blacks in Latin America or any group of immigrants that come to America. Most Asian and Latino immigrants marry white within 2 generations. Black men are merely exercising their right to women of all races.......just like white men have done. Any white blood the average black American has comes from the mingling of black women/white men (mostly coerced but not always), so the narrative about BM being disloyal isn't entirely true.

As black people, we all come from a wide variety of ethnic groups through West and Central Africa. We are not a particularly clannish people, so there's a limit to just how united we'll ever be. It's our greatest strength and weakness. We can't give up on America, because it's our country. Just because SOME white people seek to make us feel like outsiders, doesn't mean we are. Our forefathers fought too hard for us to acquiesce the gains they've made.
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Old 05-22-2017, 02:25 PM
 
24,247 posts, read 17,637,884 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jgn2013 View Post
Blacks can definitely improve on the small business side, but until we control the decision making at financial institutions (handing out small business loans), we're going to be limited. Even among ethnic Asians and Latinos, most of the businesses you see are restaurants, convenience stores, dry cleaners etc. Small operations that aren't going to employ many people.

Black men don't really date out their race as much as people think. The most common IR pairings are white/Latino and white/Asian. Despite being in the nation for 400 years, black Americans are still extremely "pure" compared to blacks in Latin America or any group of immigrants that come to America. Most Asian and Latino immigrants marry white within 2 generations. Black men are merely exercising their right to women of all races.......just like white men have done. Any white blood the average black American has comes from the mingling of black women/white men (mostly coerced but not always), so the narrative about BM being disloyal isn't entirely true.

As black people, we all come from a wide variety of ethnic groups through West and Central Africa. We are not a particularly clannish people, so there's a limit to just how united we'll ever be. It's our greatest strength and weakness. We can't give up on America, because it's our country. Just because SOME white people seek to make us feel like outsiders, doesn't mean we are. Our forefathers fought too hard for us to acquiesce the gains they've made.
Historically, as in from slave owners getting their slaves/maid/concubines pregnant.

In recent years though you do have both Black men and Black women marry non Blacks.

"The overall numbers mask significant gender gaps within some racial groups. Among blacks, men are much more likely than women to marry someone of a different race. Fully a quarter of black men who got married in 2013 married someone who was not black. Only 12% of black women married outside of their race.

For Asians, the gender pattern goes in the opposite direction: Asian women are much more likely than Asian men to marry someone of a different race. Among newlyweds in 2013, 37% of Asian women married someone who was not Asian, while 16% of Asian men married outside of their race."
Interracial marriage: Who is

Of course you could day not all Black people get married, and this would be true of interracial couples. But rates of 25% and of 12% are still pretty significant.

"With African Americans and Asian Americans, the ratios are even further imbalanced, with roughly five times more Asian female/African male marriages than Asian male/African female marriages.[29] However, C.N. Le estimated that among Asian Americans of the 1.5 generation and of the five largest Asian American ethnic groups this ratio narrows to approximately two to one.[18] Even though the disparity between African American and Asian American interracial marriages by gender is high according to the 2000 US Census,[29] the total numbers of Asian American/African American interracial marriages are low, numbering only 0.22% percent for Asian American male marriages and 1.30% percent of Asian female marriages, partially contributed by the recent flux of Asian immigrants."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interr...sian_and_Black
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