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Old 06-27-2017, 07:10 PM
 
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The reality is that white Americans and African Americans culturally are the same
Even though they won't admit it

Racism is so ingrained in people that they think that if two people of the same color meet each other, they should get along
Same way, they are surprised when people of two different colors get along.

Culture has no color
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Old 06-27-2017, 09:56 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dopo View Post

The reality is that white Americans and African Americans culturally are the same
Even though they won't admit it
We do share a similar U.S culture. It's just we can express the culture differently because we have different sensibilities. Compare a Black church to a white church. Compare a funk song to a rock song etc.
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Old 06-29-2017, 03:26 PM
 
Location: Maryland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Beer View Post
It's pretty clear that they are not there. Definitely not with conservative red America...and I don't think liberal white America could either outside of well-to-do whites with a guilt complex...

Mostly because I don't think a black man born and raised in a predominately black cultural setting, would have any real understanding of the complexities of white America.

Because most black cultural settings are surrounded by heavily affluent white neighborhoods, which give off the impression to most black people that all white people are affluent. The reality is that these white people aren't typical white people across the nation, by any stretch. They are just the rarities of the most affluent and highly educated across the nation. Most black people from black cultural settings wrongly assume this subset of white people as the 'white norm'.

The massive amounts of white America are without that much education, and are ignored by both political parties. Democrats SHOULD be connecting with them, but that message isn't there, or they are missing the mark. Republicans are lying to them, and they are buying it. That's how out of the loop they are....

I don't see any black man coming from a black cultural setting, have any concept/clue/awareness of that entire large swath of most of America. I don't see them being able to represent them, or being able to show that they understand them.

Obama had a strong sense of 'working-class' white America through his Mom's Kansas roots. It was the magic key required.

You're kind of asking the equivalent of, do you think we'll ever see a white person coming from a predominately white cultural setting someday represent black America, and the answer would be 'I don't see how that could be possible'.
I'm not sure this is correct. This is only true in a handful of cities, DC, NYC and LA come to mind. In reality even during Jim Crow blacks and whites lived in close proximity to each other. To this day the South is more racially integrated in terms of housing than the North.

I simply think black cultural norms have devolved to such a point that most whites and frankly non-African-Americans in general (including many blacks of immigrant origin) would object.
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Old 06-29-2017, 03:28 PM
 
Location: Maryland
18,624 posts, read 16,461,645 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dopo View Post
The reality is that white Americans and African Americans culturally are the same
Even though they won't admit it

Racism is so ingrained in people that they think that if two people of the same color meet each other, they should get along
Same way, they are surprised when people of two different colors get along.

Culture has no color
Yeah I'm not so sure about that. I could see an argument where that isn't the case. Off the top of my head black Americans seem to have a higher tolerance for criminality, noise than the general public.
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Old 06-29-2017, 03:32 PM
 
Location: Maryland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jgn2013 View Post
When I see west Africans out and about, the similarities between them and my black American family are noticeable. The physical appearance, mannerisms in conversation and even some of the same values (respect for elders etc) really stand out.

Most black Americans' families have been in the U.S. for at least 9 or 10 generations. I traced my ancestry back to my 7th great-grandfather and he was born in 1780's Maryland from what I remember. Regardless of how we've been conditioned, the average black American has more in common with a typical WASP (white American Anglo-Saxon Protestant) than a recent African arrival. The customs, foods, holidays etc., are almost identical even if we don't want to admit it. We also have to remember that the 'average' black American is almost 1/4 European by blood with some native American DNA thrown in, so we're already a little different even without the cultural adaptations. We aren't really European or African but instead......American.

I wouldn't expect the average Ghanaian or Nigerian to see the commonalities because I think most Africans think in terms of family and ethnic group first before thinking about themselves as "Senegalese" or "Congolese." As black people, we tend to think of ourselves as "Black American" or "American" first because we've been a minority for so long that unification at a macro level was needed just to survive.

As black people, I think it's good to learn about the cultures our ancestors descended from, but we can't expect Africans to view us as being family or exactly like them. This will be interesting though as more African immigrate to the U.S. First and maybe second generation will still have their heart in Africa but future generations will become more "black American" especially with marriages and name changes etc.
Yeah no one in my Ghanaian American family thought of themselves of having much in common with African-American beyond skin color. The talk was mostly about how awful they acted as a group. Among us kids and cousins about a dozen of us, only one has married an African-American and he has a MBA with a great job. So to be blunt and exception.

You're right though in general the next generation of our family will be less "African" and will at some point just blend in with AAs.
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Old 06-29-2017, 05:43 PM
 
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This is a global dynamic, after the third generation in a country, the kids of the immigrants are totally acculturated into the culture of the host country...People classified as "Non-White" born into White majority societies are often times seen as not
being truly citizens of the country they are born in and are often marginalized. Many times these non-white minorities develop
oppositional sub-cultures within their group. These sub-cultures point back to their land of origin outside of the white majority country often.

The problem is that people living in the land of the non-white origin see these people as foreign as they were raised in a different culture. In majority monochromatic societies CULTURE TRUMPS RACE. So you have minority groups in various
countries who have "nowhere to go" in a sense.

For example, Black Americans and White Americans have been severely alienated from each other in their own country, to
where oppositional sub-cultures have developed. They have been historical enemies in the same country and not seen as
true Americans.

However, I think coming from an outside culture, Africans see them both as Americans. That is like Jamaicans born in Britain
White British don't really see them as British but as "Jamaicans" But people in Jamaica see them as "British" or in France,

The French-born Algerians are too "Algerian" to the French, but too "French" to the Algerians. Black Americans are "too
Black" to be true Americans but to Africans they are "too White" to be Africans.

I noticed and interesting thing at a local University in America as of late, the new leaders of a historical Black American
student organization are children of African immigrants, in this instance Black American leadership in traditional Black organization is being replaced with leadership from black immigrant children.
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Old 06-29-2017, 05:50 PM
 
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It is interesting how white racism functions in a similar power dynamic on a global scale across different cultures.
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Old 06-30-2017, 04:29 AM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
3,336 posts, read 1,674,266 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agbor View Post

The French-born Algerians are too "Algerian" to the French, but too "French" to the Algerians. Black Americans are "too
Black" to be true Americans but to Africans they are "too White" to be Africans.


I noticed and interesting thing at a local University in America as of late, the new leaders of a historical Black American
student organization are children of African immigrants, in this instance Black American leadership in traditional Black organization is being replaced with leadership from black immigrant children.
But isn't the difference that unlike almost all other groups, black Americans can't trace directly back to Africa whereas other groups can? I think that is why there's a disconnect between Africans and African Americans. Same as Southern whites can't really trace directly back to Europe.

My grandparents are Polish, and even though I grew up more white American, there is definitely a cultural connection with Poland. I grew up on the east coast, but live in Chicago now, which has the 2nd largest Polish-decent population of any city outside Warsaw. It's any interesting mix of Polish people here from immigrants straight off the boat to Polish Americans that have Polish names but have zero clue about Polish culture and are as American as apple pie. But their is definitely still a pretty strong connection between us all.
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Old 06-30-2017, 09:58 AM
 
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Why don't more AA take vacation in Africa? I understand its impossible to trace roots back 10th generation but just to understand African culture, explore the continent. I am talking about those who travel to Europe and vacation in Hawaii, those who can afford to take exotic trips. They choose typical place like Paris and London. I know Africa is not glamorous but African Americans will learn a lot about Africa if they took the time to explore it. I have a coworker (AA) who likes to travel, she recently had a cousin plan trip to Morocco (that is not really a true African country but its a start). I encouraged her to go, I thought this will be great first trip to Africa and then eventually go see more of it. But the foreignness of non-European country scared her and she opted out.


It seems like AA are not interested in people from Africa, at least no more interested in exploring African culture than they are in exploring Asian culture. It is just another foreign group of people instead of people who might have lot in common with them
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Old 06-30-2017, 11:39 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiatldal View Post
Again

Africans that mark African Americans going back to Africa is in the kind the same ignorance why African Americans who mark and make fun Africans coming to the the US. It's 2 side of the same coin of ignorance.

Chances are the black Americans that are visiting Africa, are way more educated than Africans mocking them for visiting.

Similar to how the black Americans that mock Africans coming to the US calling them derogatory names etc. The African person likely have a more open of world views.

Africans who are more educated will have a better understanding of African American wanting to learn about their ancestry. And Blacks Americans who are more educated are more welcoming to Africans to coming to the US.
The fact that highly educated black Americans chose to go to Africa and make themselves look like idiots by claiming to be "African" instead of being of African DESCENT, doesn't mean that they don't deserve to be ridiculed. It gets especially silly when its a light skinned person with Caucasoid features who will better fit into Morocco.

Africans are Africans and African Americans are African Americans. Time has taken its toll. These are two distinct peoples who have a poor understanding of each other. To be frank, often don't even want understand each other.

It is a fact that a black American has more in common with a white American, notwithstanding the levels of racism which still exist, than they do with an African who has never lived in the USA.

In fact some of the Africans who are most disdainful towards African Americans are in fact the highly educated ones. They fit into decent occupations in the USA, especially if educated at American universities, and so are perplexed as to why so many African Americans have had difficulty in achieving upward mobility. While they don't deny that racism continues to exist they also don't see that it is sufficient to prevent upward mobility.

I will suggest to you that its the Senegalese taxi driver, who over time, will sooner sympathize with the black American, as they lack the social access to mitigate racism.
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