U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Africa
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 07-02-2017, 01:06 PM
 
6,572 posts, read 9,086,989 times
Reputation: 2846

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post


I will hypothesize that a black person from the South (smaller cities) might more easily pass in the Caribbean, and maybe even Africa, given similar climatically induced languid movements. Kind of hard to be brisk when its 90 degrees and dripping in humidity, especially in a laid back environment.
I can't remember where exactly I read this. But I read where someone had pointed out that many of the Blacks they saw in Mobile Alabama were probably descendant from the Ibo people of Nigeria. They said that they could tell by the body language of some of the Black residents there.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-02-2017, 01:26 PM
 
20,210 posts, read 11,205,227 times
Reputation: 20234
Quote:
Originally Posted by Motion View Post
I can't remember where exactly I read this. But I read where someone had pointed out that many of the Blacks they saw in Mobile Alabama were probably descendant from the Ibo people of Nigeria. They said that they could tell by the body language of some of the Black residents there.
As Caribny is alluding, any similarity of "languid movements" is more a matter of similar weather than genetic heritage. Southern whites are also "languid" compared to northern whites.

Most of the blacks in Alabama are the descendants of slaves who originally arrived at the ports on the east coast, from Virginia to Georgia. They were thoroughly mixed from whatever their original tribes might have been for a generation or two before being sold further south. The sales of slaves from the original southern Atlantic port states to the deep south created the most intensive destruction of families and tribal groups that the slaves endured.

Where slaves remained in the original port states, their descendants today can frequently trace their heritage to the first slaves to arrive. When they were sold further south, they've generally lost those connections.

To be sold south was, in fact, considered a "further descent into hell" for the slaves in the southern Atlantic stages.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-02-2017, 02:21 PM
 
24,247 posts, read 17,654,209 times
Reputation: 9170
Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
This in fact makes my point. The Hispanics in Chicago are mainly Mexicans or their offspring, so they arrive with a whole different range of issues when compared to the black Chicagoans, who in fact arrived from the worst part of Jim Crow, and that was Mississippi.

They also arrived at a different time in the USA's history and so were spared some of its impacts.

Thanks for proving my point. And yes the psychic impact of an AMERICAN group, some arguing the most American, aside from Native Americans, receiving such shabby treatment, despite their valiant struggles does at some point wear down the spirit. I say among the most American because they alone among the non indigenous groups cannot align themselves with anywhere outside of the USA.

They left the oppressive Jim Crow South heading to the "Promised Land", and saw Jim Crow laughing at them when they arrived in Chicago. Cruel trick. Treated WORSE than even non English speaking foreigners from Europe. Forced into the worst housing and limited to the worst jobs. And that is when they could even find work. Then harassed by the police, many of whom were immigrants. Hard to sell the concept of the "American Dream".

Now life has changed and opportunities have greatly improved but when the "ghetto" enters not only the body but also the soul, and it becomes culture it doesn't just stop just because conditions have SOMEWHAT improved.


In fact it has been recently discovered that the white working class in the UK performs worse, using multiple measures than do even the descendants of UK black immigrants (who are arguably worse off than US black immigrants). This despite being native whites in a society where being white and British clearly offers advantages. The point is that the historically oppressive UK class system has led to the development of certain pathologies which reduce their ability to see opportunity even when it exists.

I suspect that we will soon discover ditto about the white working class of the USA, now that more attention is being paid to it. Already drug addiction, alcoholism, and suicides are now worse among this group than among even the AA poor.

When a people become trapped into a lower caste syndrome its a problem to get them out of it. Doesn't matter whether its the British white working class, or the American black poor.
What you're speaking of is called social marginalization. Marginalized people are people who are pushed literally to the fringes of society, if not pretty much out of it altogether. Whether it's Blacks on the South Side of Chicago, the descendants of poor white coal miners in the UK, or poor whites in rural areas with limited opportunities.

You're forgetting as many people do, the prime reason why African Americans left the Jim Crow south. Immigrants and Northerners today assume it was to escape oppression. I don't think so.

Mechanization ELIMINATED the need for sharecroppers. Once industrial production reformed American agriculture, the South had no need for all those Black sharecroppers. In fact farmers wanted them off those lands, many of which reverted back to forest and had commercial use as timber. This generation of African American farmers had high levels of illiteracy (they were just used to farm and where pretty low skilled).

They went to cities seeking opportunity, and you see how well that worked out. There was considerable discrimination against them, but there was also the issue of illiteracy. (European immigrants had high levels of illiteracy, but they were allowed social mobility and their children had educational opportunities that the children of poor Black farmers didn't have in those days). For all the problems they had, ghettoes (and yes there was discrimination in housing and employment) truly got worse when the US decided to move manufacturing facilities out of Northern cities, and when suburbanization increased. Money fled cities, and cities were used as dumping grounds. So inner cities had less financial resources for education, policing, and other issues, and America were promoted as urban while inner cities were promoted as the other. NYC never became all poor and Black, though it was damaged by white flight.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-02-2017, 04:33 PM
 
178 posts, read 84,816 times
Reputation: 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dopo View Post
The reality is that white Americans and African Americans culturally are the same
Even though they won't admit it

Racism is so ingrained in people that they think that if two people of the same color meet each other, they should get along
Same way, they are surprised when people of two different colors get along.

Culture has no color
??What?
Its the same country so there will be some shared similarities but cultures are different.Even by region.
Here is one of the biggest cultural differences here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaWJNi_Ohr4

How many black Country or rock Musicians do you see?
Or how many "cloggers" are black?

Black teenagers


White teenagers
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-02-2017, 04:54 PM
 
20,210 posts, read 11,205,227 times
Reputation: 20234
Quote:
Originally Posted by SenseSoCommon View Post
??What?
Its the same country so there will be some shared similarities but cultures are different.Even by region.
I have to respond to this in two ways.

First, in all the "deep" important ways, black and white American culture are the same comparing either to any other world culture. That is to say, black American culture is generally =/= to any other national culture (including African) in the same way (if not to the same degree) as white American culture. Transport either black Americans or white Americans anywhere else and their complaints about the native culture will be the same, as well as the complaints of the natives about either black or white Americans.

Second, this is the first period in over a hundred years that white teenagers have been more fly than black teenagers. <sigh>
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-03-2017, 07:56 AM
 
Location: West of Louisiana, East of New Mexico
2,536 posts, read 2,032,739 times
Reputation: 5830
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dopo View Post
The reality is that white Americans and African Americans culturally are the same
Even though they won't admit it

Racism is so ingrained in people that they think that if two people of the same color meet each other, they should get along
Same way, they are surprised when people of two different colors get along.

Culture has no color
I've had many Ghanaian and Nigerian friends (1st generation Americans) say that black/white in the U.S. is nearly identical. I'm not sure if non-African immigrants view it the same way but Africans see the similarities better than anyone else.

In the South, blacks and whites are VERY similar. Both have cultures steeped in Native American, West African and Scots-Irish/British traditions that have been blended over 400 years. In places like Chicago, NYC etc., blacks and whites seem more separate in their cultural traditions. The whites there tend to be more recent arrivals, post Civil War, so you have a lot of Italian, Greek and various Eastern European-descended people. They never really had the chance to adopt Native American and African ways into their culture.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-03-2017, 08:02 AM
 
Location: West of Louisiana, East of New Mexico
2,536 posts, read 2,032,739 times
Reputation: 5830
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwardA View Post
I'm not sure this is correct. This is only true in a handful of cities, DC, NYC and LA come to mind. In reality even during Jim Crow blacks and whites lived in close proximity to each other. To this day the South is more racially integrated in terms of housing than the North.

I simply think black cultural norms have devolved to such a point that most whites and frankly non-African-Americans in general (including many blacks of immigrant origin) would object.
You're speaking of black cultural norms among the poor and uneducated. That would be like judging white culture by the vast swaths of people living in trailer parks throughout rural Florida, Appalachia, Arkansas etc. The biggest mistake most whites and immigrants make is comparing their own "above average" people to the "worst" of black people. Apples and oranges. Poor blacks/whites behave the same way, just like middle class, upper middle class and wealthy of each race acts the same.

Immigrants especially Asian and African are unfair comparisons because these are the most tenacious, highly motivated people in their societies. They're driven to succeed because they have no choice. If I take the most determined and intelligent black Americans and send them to Europe, they'd find a way to outperform the locals in much the same way.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-03-2017, 08:14 AM
 
Location: West of Louisiana, East of New Mexico
2,536 posts, read 2,032,739 times
Reputation: 5830
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agbor View Post
The French-born Algerians are too "Algerian" to the French, but too "French" to the Algerians. Black Americans are "too
Black" to be true Americans but to Africans they are "too White" to be Africans.

I noticed and interesting thing at a local University in America as of late, the new leaders of a historical Black American
student organization are children of African immigrants, in this instance Black American leadership in traditional Black organization is being replaced with leadership from black immigrant children.
The difference for black Americans is that their roots run deeper in America than a Jamaican in England or an Algerian in France.

99% of French or British history can be told without including the influence of Algerians or Jamaicans but you can't really tell America's story without black people. Blacks fought on both sides of the Revolutionary War...before America was "America." That would be the equivalent of Yoruba and Igbos sailing up north to help the Anglo Saxons & Alfred the Great fight off the Vikings. Many whites in the U.S. don't have roots that run as deep. Whites may try to deny our 'American' bona-fides, but that doesn't make it so. Unlike recent immigrant groups we take full ownership of this nation and feel no reticence at fighting for our rights. It's why (some) whites get along with Asians but loathe blacks. They try to make us feel like outsiders but our culture is the single most enduring aspect of the U.S.A.

Last edited by jgn2013; 07-03-2017 at 09:08 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-03-2017, 08:20 AM
 
Location: West of Louisiana, East of New Mexico
2,536 posts, read 2,032,739 times
Reputation: 5830
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
The black Boomer generation was directly affected by segregation, and the Boomer generation is still very much here.

Many of us remember "white" and "colored" signage. Most of us attended segregated elementary schools, at the very least. I remember my mother first taking me to Franklin Elementary--the closest school to my house--and being told, "Oh, no, he can't attend here, he must go to Carver"--which was a mile and a half walk away.

I remember the Freedom Riders, I remember the Birmingham church bombing.

I remember a cross country trip from Oklahoma to Florida where my father had to get out first at every gas station or restaurant to check whether we'd be allowed to go in...and often we weren't, so he'd have to drive on.

The last time I sat in segregated movie seating was July 20, 1969.
My mom and dad (born in 1955 and 1956 respectively) both attended segregated schools. Both didn't experience full integration until high school. They distinctly remember going to black restaurants and then going to white restaurants where they had to get their orders taken through a back window. Separate but equal.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-03-2017, 08:30 AM
 
Location: West of Louisiana, East of New Mexico
2,536 posts, read 2,032,739 times
Reputation: 5830
Quote:
Originally Posted by SenseSoCommon View Post
??What?
Its the same country so there will be some shared similarities but cultures are different.Even by region.
Here is one of the biggest cultural differences here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaWJNi_Ohr4

How many black Country or rock Musicians do you see?
Or how many "cloggers" are black?

Black teenagers


White teenagers
I've never seen white teens dress like that unless they're rich.

As for black country or rock.......you've never heard of Charlie Pride, Little Richard, Chuck Berry, Jimi Hendrix etc. Country music is literally a marriage of African and Scottish/Irish instruments and culture. As for rock, most would say that the first rock and roll song was Rocket 88 by Ike Turner. Just because DeAndre doesn't sing country music or jam out on a guitar NOW doesn't mean that the origin of country or rock is a purely white experience. Black culture evolves quickly so we often help start something and then move onto something else.

Look at how divorced rap is today from its' origins. Now it's mostly beat-driven designed to appeal to suburban white kids, even if the rappers are mostly black.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Africa
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top