U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Africa
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 08-14-2017, 08:33 PM
 
24,247 posts, read 17,660,489 times
Reputation: 9170

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agbor View Post
That is the psychological quandary of Black Americans, we are not accepted as Americans in our own country
but we have no where else to go...So do we fight the rest of our lives? or say "Forget it I am out" or take a
break and go to a predominately Black country? It is like living in an abusive house.

Then again, if we do leave the country, they might not let us back in...I also think that the younger
generation don't have the discipline and moral fortitude of the people who marched in the sixties, they
are not going to be non-violent.

Maybe the best idea might be to stay and fight BUT keep that plane ticket handy if it comes down to bare
survival.

Then again, why should I leave and make the nationalists happy? they would be too happy to buy the ticket, let me be a thorn in their side.
Well this is something each person has to work out for themselves. Whether to stay or fight, or whether to go to another whether predominately Black or otherwise.

You had a number of Black artists who historically went to Europe, where they got much greater support and even today a number of Americans, including Blacks are now studying in say Canada or Europe where it's CHEAP.

Believe it or not, some African Americans had moved to Latin America to escape persecution in the US.

This stuff is kept hidden, because racists while treating African Americans like **** want them completely dependent on the US/White Americans and afraid go elsewhere. It is indeed like being stuck in an abusive house.

On the one hand, of course I believe in fighting back. But if everything is always going to be a fight, is this really a way to live your life? Why bother?

It's not my job to clean up after White Americans ****!

So lately I have been traveling quite a bit, and setting things up elsewhere.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-14-2017, 08:37 PM
 
24,247 posts, read 17,660,489 times
Reputation: 9170
Quote:
Originally Posted by jgn2013 View Post
The story about someone in Ghana calling a black-American "white" because of their speech is interesting. It actually shows that the propaganda is effective. Instead of seeing the black-American as the truest representative of an American, the black person is seen as an extension of whiteness (Americanness) instead of the other way around.

Even when someone is fully immersed in west African culture, the effects of white supremacy still loom large.

As black Americans, we can't back away from our American identity just because some white supremacists say that we aren't American. We should never allow whites or foreigners to define what it means to be an American......WE DEFINE WHAT IT MEANS TO BE AN AMERICAN.

Our roots are deeper than most of the white supremacists that are protesting. What's ironic is that these fake Nazi's would be killed by Hitler if this was 1940. He was pro-Germany, not pro-white. They've co-opted an ideology that was never meant to include them.
Yes, one certainly can back away from an American identity if one chooses. I've been to a number of Spanish speaking countries, and in places like the Dominican Republic and Colombia I was treated just like everyone else. Just by looking at me one cannot distinguish me from a Dominican, Trinidadian, Haitian, Jamaican, Colombian, Brazilian, Guyanese, Nigerian, etc.

I am connected to all these people, and to just pretend I am just American would be a denial of reality. If Black Americans were just Americans they would not have had all the historic AND present trouble that they have.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-14-2017, 11:25 PM
 
691 posts, read 921,404 times
Reputation: 643
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
Generally speaking, I have not observed a lot of "like" between very many African tribal groups I've gained any direct knowledge of. I'm not convinced that's something black Americans need to tie ourselves into.
Well, they TRIED to tie me into it, I would get complaints of two people asked for a favor from a third person
the third person did a favor for one person and not the other because the other was NOT from the same tribe
he was from. One tribe was scared of the other tribe because they were warlike.

As an American, each one was teaching me words in their language. Someone who was bi-tribal outside of
BOTH tribes was more neutral and was educating me on the different tribes and their characteristics.

All of these people were from the SAME country. I had 7 friends from 4 ethnic groups. I wisely JUST listened
and STAYED NEUTRAL.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-14-2017, 11:34 PM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,945,812 times
Reputation: 3799
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
Why are you obsessed with how I supposedly feel about West Indians? .
Your views on West Indians have been frequently made. Even on the Americas thread your views led to a bunch of us putting you in your place when you expressed views of the English speaking Caribbean even as you admitted that you have never been there and aren't remotely interested in those places.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-14-2017, 11:39 PM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,945,812 times
Reputation: 3799
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
Except there isn't a country called Africa. You .
I suspect that he is more aware of the diversities of Africa than you are. In fact its this very diversity that is why he will argue (as do I) that blacks who are descended from slaves do not even begin to understand Africa.

Getting a job and learning one of the languages of the Congo basis doesn't entitle one to assume a continental African identity, or to think that there aren't real issues that arise when continental Africans encounter African Americans in particular.

In fact there is much less of this need to identify with the "motherland" among Caribbean and Latin American blacks even as you argue that we have much more African residual elements within our various cultures.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-14-2017, 11:48 PM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,945,812 times
Reputation: 3799
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
Insecurity. ..
They need to get over it. They play into the hands of those who marginalize the role of black Americans to the USA as a way of denying them their right for full recognition and entitlement to adopt whatever identity that they so chose as it will be one of many of the diverse ways to be an American.

1. Most black Americans have been in the USA long than any other "racial" group aside from Native Americans.

2. Black Americans have played a huge role in defining what American culture is. Billions of dollars are made by the sale of American "cool" to foreigners....music, film, etc. Now which group do you think defines that "American cool".

3. The black American struggle has been one that many other marginalized groups have adopted and adapted. EVERYONE who is literate has heard of Martin Luther King.

And in fact even in majority black societies in Africa and the Caribbean the black struggle in the USA against some of the worst racism on this planet gave others language to analyze their own condition. I know that in the Caribbean in the 60s people began to question their revulsion for their African hair, skin color and facial features and the shame that many felt about the manifestations of Africanisms still evident in the culture. Our struggle wasn't against Jim Crow. It was against the legacy of colonialism which led us to view who we were as being inconsequential. Ironically this also applied within Africa itself.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-15-2017, 12:01 AM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,945,812 times
Reputation: 3799
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agbor View Post
I think they feel that the Black American identity is inferior in that it was created from OPPRESSION and they perceive the
African identity to be FREE of this white OPPRESSION. However, African identity has its OWN SET of OPPRESSIONS, like

.
Africans have to deal with the various demons and pathologies that arose from colonialism in the same way that black Americans have to. In fact continental Africans have huge complexes of the "Tarzan and Jane" image of Africa and all the stereotypes of the "Dark Continent" which has no history or culture worthy of note. The image of the primitive savage cannibal is something that they still have to battle against.

Contemporary Africans are just as shaped by past white oppression as was the case with blacks of the Americas. It has done severe psychic damage to them. This is especially true of the former French colonies where some of their leaders still view France as the "Mother Country". More Frenchmen were running the show in Ivory Coast AFTER independence than before.

If these fake Africans really knew about Africa they would have learned that the various African societies were all destroyed by the colonizers after slavery ended. A new exploitation began and that was based on the export of a narrow range of commodities, and the destruction of the indigenous economies.

It is interesting to note that the blacks who I have heard most likely to consider the white man to be superior are Africans. I have heard various versions of this so many times. In fact until recently African kids weren't even taught their own pre colonial history and in fact many credit Walter Rodney, a Guyanese, for writing the first credible history of pre colonial Africa to be written from the perspective of an African.

This is why when some Fake Africans go to Africa and are called an "obruni" (white man) and when an African tells them that they are lucky that their ancestors were stolen away because they get to live in the "great" USA.....they melt down. Because they are so caught up with their pain that they don't see the pain of others.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-15-2017, 12:08 AM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,945,812 times
Reputation: 3799
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
I am connected to all these people, and to just pretend I am just American would be a denial of reality. .
And yet here in NYC none of these groups really have any contact or deep desire to interact. How many Dominicans identify with black Americans? The blackest of them will get angry if being mistaken for being a black American, and will point out numerous cultural differences.

There are certain threads of commonality as various degrees of residual African culture exist. But the differences are also apparent. Even the two groups of blacks who have the most in common, West Indians and American blacks, have levels of tensions. Haitians can describe a feeling of oppression suffered at the hands of both groups of English speaking blacks.

I will also suggest that when you receive good treatment on other places its because you are an AMERICAN! Even though I am NOT an American because I supposedly have been influenced by living many decades in the USA I carry certain traits that make people in other countries think that I am one. People love people from rich countries especially when those same people from rich countries treat them with respect and show an interest in their cultures.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-15-2017, 01:19 AM
 
24,247 posts, read 17,660,489 times
Reputation: 9170
Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
They need to get over it. They play into the hands of those who marginalize the role of black Americans to the USA as a way of denying them their right for full recognition and entitlement to adopt whatever identity that they so chose as it will be one of many of the diverse ways to be an American.

1. Most black Americans have been in the USA long than any other "racial" group aside from Native Americans.

2. Black Americans have played a huge role in defining what American culture is. Billions of dollars are made by the sale of American "cool" to foreigners....music, film, etc. Now which group do you think defines that "American cool".

3. The black American struggle has been one that many other marginalized groups have adopted and adapted. EVERYONE who is literate has heard of Martin Luther King.

And in fact even in majority black societies in Africa and the Caribbean the black struggle in the USA against some of the worst racism on this planet gave others language to analyze their own condition. I know that in the Caribbean in the 60s people began to question their revulsion for their African hair, skin color and facial features and the shame that many felt about the manifestations of Africanisms still evident in the culture. Our struggle wasn't against Jim Crow. It was against the legacy of colonialism which led us to view who we were as being inconsequential. Ironically this also applied within Africa itself.
And yet the rising white nationalist movement will strip away any gains African Americans have made. The civil rights movements had it's successes, and it had it's failures as well. Ultimately you cannot make someone else like you if they don't.

You can go on and on about AA contributions, none of this is ever really accepted by white people. Obama, born in the US, was subject to constant attacks on his citizenship.

When people say "American", it's generally a codeword for WHITE. ESPECIALLY in Trump's America.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-15-2017, 01:22 AM
 
24,247 posts, read 17,660,489 times
Reputation: 9170
Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
And yet here in NYC none of these groups really have any contact or deep desire to interact. How many Dominicans identify with black Americans? The blackest of them will get angry if being mistaken for being a black American, and will point out numerous cultural differences.

There are certain threads of commonality as various degrees of residual African culture exist. But the differences are also apparent. Even the two groups of blacks who have the most in common, West Indians and American blacks, have levels of tensions. Haitians can describe a feeling of oppression suffered at the hands of both groups of English speaking blacks.

I will also suggest that when you receive good treatment on other places its because you are an AMERICAN! Even though I am NOT an American because I supposedly have been influenced by living many decades in the USA I carry certain traits that make people in other countries think that I am one. People love people from rich countries especially when those same people from rich countries treat them with respect and show an interest in their cultures.
Not really. In all of the Spanish speaking countries I've been to, upon first sight they do not assume a Black person is an American.

People who knew me got to know I was an America, but before we spoke for any length it was not obvious where I'm from.

And no, I'm not an American. I will concede that to the white nationalists who run and own this nation.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Africa
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top