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Old 08-15-2017, 05:32 AM
 
20,253 posts, read 11,227,661 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
And yet the rising white nationalist movement will strip away any gains African Americans have made. The civil rights movements had it's successes, and it had it's failures as well. Ultimately you cannot make someone else like you if they don't.

You can go on and on about AA contributions, none of this is ever really accepted by white people. Obama, born in the US, was subject to constant attacks on his citizenship.

When people say "American", it's generally a codeword for WHITE. ESPECIALLY in Trump's America.
Oh, Lordy!

You want white people to like you?

You're all bothered and depressed and angry because white people don't like you?

Hell, we never expected white people to like us. When we marched and even when we rioted, getting white people to like us was never a goal.
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Old 08-15-2017, 08:06 AM
 
24,247 posts, read 17,678,234 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
Oh, Lordy!

You want white people to like you?

You're all bothered and depressed and angry because white people don't like you?

Hell, we never expected white people to like us. When we marched and even when we rioted, getting white people to like us was never a goal.
I never said I wanted white people to like me, so don't put words in my mouth. With that said I don't identify as American either. It's not who I am and not what I chose.
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Old 08-15-2017, 08:07 AM
 
20,253 posts, read 11,227,661 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
I never said I wanted white people to like me, so don't put words in my mouth. With that said I don't identify as American either. It's not who I am and not what I chose.
You did say:


Quote:
Ultimately you cannot make someone else like you if they don't.

"Like" was never the goal, so it's not a failure.
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Old 08-15-2017, 08:10 AM
 
24,247 posts, read 17,678,234 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
You did say:





"Like" was never the goal, so it's not a failure.
Yes it was ultimately a failure. Look st the mass incarceration of Blacks alone. Look at the huge disparities between Blacks and Whites.
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Old 08-15-2017, 08:26 AM
 
20,253 posts, read 11,227,661 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
Yes it was ultimately a failure. Look st the mass incarceration of Blacks alone. Look at the huge disparities between Blacks and Whites.
Gee, might as well call WWII a failure: "There are still Nazis in the world!"


Can you not go to any public university in the country, if you have the grades and the money?


Can you not get in a plane or bus and travel through any state in the union?


Can you not drive across country and stop at any gas station, restaurant, or hotel?


Can you not walk into any movie theater in any city and sit right up front?


Can you not get a marriage license to marry a woman of any race?


Can you not swim in any municipal swimming pool?


I personally remember when I wasn't allowed do any of those things.
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Old 08-15-2017, 09:45 AM
 
24,247 posts, read 17,678,234 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
Gee, might as well call WWII a failure: "There are still Nazis in the world!"


Can you not go to any public university in the country, if you have the grades and the money?


Can you not get in a plane or bus and travel through any state in the union?


Can you not drive across country and stop at any gas station, restaurant, or hotel?


Can you not walk into any movie theater in any city and sit right up front?


Can you not get a marriage license to marry a woman of any race?


Can you not swim in any municipal swimming pool?


I personally remember when I wasn't allowed do any of those things.
Yes, and so you became desperate to get whatever crumbs thrown your way. In any major city the MAJORITY of Black people live literally on the fringes of the city, and occupy the lowest jobs in the city, if they are employed. Not counting police brutality, and not counting mass incarceration.

The civil rights movement is a failure, and the reason why I said you can't make people like you is there is a huge difference between superficial tolerance and genuine acceptance.

Even the veneer of superficial tolerance is eroding, in Trump's America. Stop living in the past and deal with present realities.
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Old 08-15-2017, 10:00 AM
 
Location: West of Louisiana, East of New Mexico
2,536 posts, read 2,035,317 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
More likely, the black American is fully behaving in all the ways the "propaganda" says is "American." Black Americans abroad simply don't behave significantly different from white Americans abroad. Yes, there is a minority of black Americans who can go overseas and "get down" with the local cultures...but there is the same percentage of white Americans who do that, too.



I agree.
I agree that black and white Americans act similarly when surrounded by a foreign culture. I'm just curious why it's viewed as blacks 'acting' like whites instead of the other way around. Africans, Asians etc., view "American" behaviors (good and bad) as white and that white is the default American.
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Old 08-15-2017, 10:07 AM
 
20,253 posts, read 11,227,661 times
Reputation: 20299
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
Yes, and so you became desperate to get whatever crumbs thrown your way. In any major city the MAJORITY of Black people live literally on the fringes of the city, and occupy the lowest jobs in the city, if they are employed. Not counting police brutality, and not counting mass incarceration.

There is nothing superficial about the freedom to vote, instead of being beaten or murdered at the courthouse.


There is nothing superficial about riding a bus through Montgomery instead of being beaten or murdered at the bus station.


There is nothing superficial about a white man murdering your daughter and then laughing at the hearing because he knows for a fact he'll never be convicted.


"He jests at scars who never felt a wound."


You didn't have to be taught that any white person at any time anywhere can kill you on the spot and walk away from it. Your parents didn't have to worry about that.


The goal of the Civil Rights Movement was just to cross that very wide chasm of merely doing ordinary things without white people being free to kill you on the spot.


Quote:
The civil rights movement is a failure, and the reason why I said you can't make people like you is there is a huge difference between superficial tolerance and genuine acceptance.

You're whining "they don't like us" again here.
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Old 08-15-2017, 10:16 AM
 
24,247 posts, read 17,678,234 times
Reputation: 9170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
There is nothing superficial about the freedom to vote, instead of being beaten or murdered at the courthouse.


There is nothing superficial about riding a bus through Montgomery instead of being beaten or murdered at the bus station.


There is nothing superficial about a white man murdering your daughter and then laughing at the hearing because he knows for a fact he'll never be convicted.


"He jests at scars who never felt a wound."


You didn't have to be taught that any white person at any time anywhere can kill you on the spot and walk away from it. Your parents didn't have to worry about that.


The goal of the Civil Rights Movement was just to cross that very wide chasm of merely doing ordinary things without white people being free to kill you on the spot.





You're whining "they don't like us" again here.
No, I'm not whining that they don't like us.

Voting is superficial in that at 13% of the population, Blacks have no real power in the US and may never have real power. As for a white man murdering your daughter and getting a way with it, that could happen today if he is a police officer and has happened.

Where have you been?


White cops have indeed killed or shot Black people and gotten away with it. You're in DENIAL about what goes in the present.

I keep speaking about actual acceptance because no government can force actual acceptance. If a group of people do not genuinely accept you as EQUALS, then you have the current reality in which Black people as a group simply will not get anywhere in this society. They by and large still live in segregated neighborhoods, still occupy the bottom of society, and still are largely the ones to be locked up in prison.

You accuse me of whining to distort my argument, which holds very painful truths you can't acknowledge.

The civil rights movement failed. We have a Nazi as President, who has allied himself with neo confederates. There will be violence from at least two sides, if not all sides in the streets.

The civil rights movement was no some sacred movement beyond reproach or criticism. It failed and quite clearly Black Americans will have to do something else, and in some cases they may need to take up arms to defend themselves from people who really want them dead.
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Old 08-15-2017, 10:25 AM
 
24,247 posts, read 17,678,234 times
Reputation: 9170
I'm actually AGAINST some of what the civil rights movement pushed for.

Busing kids to white neighborhoods (where the kids got assaulted mind you) in the name of "integration". That was utter garbage and thank god that stopped. In part because it was those kids that were the ones who got things thrown at them and otherwise assaulted.

As a result, since that kind of integration never really happened, all pretense of it has been dropped.

If people genuinely change their minds and actually accept people who are different, wonderful. But no government is going to force together different groups of people that DO NOT WANT to be together.

Oh, and as far as marrying a woman of whatever race. Better hope her family is cool with it. A young black man got recently killed because the white woman's police officer father disaproved of the relationship. It remains to be seen if he'll be convicted, or if he is convicted maybe it will be just probation.
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