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Old 08-16-2017, 05:52 PM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,945,812 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiatldal View Post
No... he would be consider a Caucasian American.

...


And of course an Indian American will also be a Caucasian American.
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Old 08-16-2017, 06:52 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
This is a dilemma that some black millennials have. Badly wanting to be loved by these people and apparently having degrees of self loathing when this doesn't happen.


Generally respect is gained when people project that they respect themselves and aren't begging a particular group to respect them.


In any case I know for a fact that there isn't a monolithic view that whites have of blacks. No they didn't all show up to the meeting that Trump, Brannon and Richard Spence held this morning. Some did. Most didn't, some because they couldn't be bothered, and others because they actually vehemently loathe open bigotry.
I was kind of wondering if he was a black millennial, many of them seem disconnected from traditional AA
culture. It seems to be a self-hate issue with some of them.

I think they were not raised with the psychological defenses against racism that my grandparents and
uncles from the South had who experienced segregation. In the 60s,70s I lived in a self-contained black
community as a child and felt very protected.

In my particular area, we had our OWN churches, barber shops, shoe store and gas stations, civic clubs,
garden parties, teas, pageants, sports events, laundry mats. My Uncle stated that he thinks a lot of people moved away to the suburbs and DID NOT psychologically prepare their kids to what they might face.

For example, one millennial wrote an article how her parents moved to the suburbs and she was surrounded
by lots of white friends, she went away to college and had a white social circle, went to a frat party and got
into an argument with a white frat guy and he called her the WORD. She was crushed. To me, that reflects
that her parents did not prepare her.

I was taught this is who you are, and if people don't like you, that is not your problem and the people who don't like you, they are NOT ALL THAT and don't let them make you think that they are. Their attitude speaks more about them than you. You are better than them.

Last edited by Agbor; 08-16-2017 at 07:05 PM..
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Old 08-16-2017, 08:35 PM
 
691 posts, read 921,166 times
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I think some of them are not defining themselves and are internalizing what other people are defining them as. I was raised
against this internalization from the outside.
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Old 08-16-2017, 08:53 PM
 
24,247 posts, read 17,654,209 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
This is a dilemma that some black millennials have. Badly wanting to be loved by these people and apparently having degrees of self loathing when this doesn't happen.


Generally respect is gained when people project that they respect themselves and aren't begging a particular group to respect them.


In any case I know for a fact that there isn't a monolithic view that whites have of blacks. No they didn't all show up to the meeting that Trump, Brannon and Richard Spence held this morning. Some did. Most didn't, some because they couldn't be bothered, and others because they actually vehemently loathe open bigotry.
Obama projected lots of respect. Yet his becoming President was also a curse, in that it was a rallying point for white racists and Trump rode that wave into power and look at where we are now.

In a country in which many people hate Black people, there's no difference between you CaribNY and a junkie who has done time and has never worked. None at all, and various police shootings and killings have proven that.

You and Ralph are being deliberately obtuse, or perhaps you are just plain LOW IQ.

Who in their right mind would want to spend time around people who are best only barely tolerate them, and at the most want to kill them?

We've seen what happens to lots of Black people who move to certain areas. Their mistaken for crooks and policemen or white militia men kill them.

That's why I said the civil rights movement was a failure in the sense that all it achieved is bare tolerance, and tolerance which is apparently evaporated.

And a bare tolerance should be rejected by all. I'll deal with those who accept me.
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Old 08-16-2017, 08:58 PM
 
24,247 posts, read 17,654,209 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agbor View Post
I was kind of wondering if he was a black millennial, many of them seem disconnected from traditional AA
culture. It seems to be a self-hate issue with some of them.


I was taught this is who you are, and if people don't like you, that is not your problem and the people who don't like you, they are NOT ALL THAT and don't let them make you think that they are. Their attitude speaks more about them than you. You are better than them.
Then your grandparents were stupid, plain and simple. I don't have to deal with people who don't like me. I can choose to spend MY TIME around people who like me.

And I certainly wouldn't want to have affirmative action as the only reason why I'm on the job and if offered a job under those circumstances you'd better believe I'd reject it.

I'm not an old illiterate poor Black person from the South, I can live where I want to live domestically AND abroad. I personally don't like the South and I would only go there to see immediate family which is getting old and dying off. Beyond that I have nothing to do with the South or for that matter Southern Blacks, and to be completely honest I don't like Southern culture or Southern African American culture even. I'm a New Yorker, I grew up in neighborhoods full of immigrants including Dominicans and Colombians (and some AAs, and a number of East and South Asians nearby) so I'm a very different kind of person than a Southern Black from the 50s (who I assuredly have NOTHING in COMMON with in terms of hobbies, education, taste, career, etc).

So your grandparents are entirely irrelevant to me, and though I love and respect them in that context the elders of my family are irrelevant to me. My grandparents were stuck on a farm in Alabama with six grade education. That's certainly not my situation.

Because let's be honest about someone's grandparents from the South. Depending on the age of the person and the generation, they were defacto slaves working in agriculture or domestics because that's was pretty much all Southern Blacks did at the time, outside of maybe being preachers or teachers? Strength? Bull****. They were doing all they were allowed to do at the time. It was all they could do at the time, and for many obviously travel or choosing where they wanted to live or who they wanted to be around was IMPOSSIBLE.

Last edited by NyWriterdude; 08-16-2017 at 09:07 PM..
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Old 08-16-2017, 09:05 PM
 
24,247 posts, read 17,654,209 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
I will then suggest to you that you are taking quite a bit for granted.


Face it in all of these countries that you have visited where blacks are a minority in NONE of them do the local blacks have the stature that blacks in the USA have. This is not because the USA is more generous in its treatment of its nonwhites and especially of its blacks. This is because blacks fought for this and some have in fact benefitted from the struggle.


Blacks in all of these Latin American nations are very aware of what black Americans have achieved. In fact sometimes they think that there is more achieved than is actually the case in reality. The recent progress of blacks in Brazil is very much due to the fact that they have seen what blacks in the USA achieved, in a society which is more blatantly racist.


Blacks in Brazil have become more vocal in confronting the lie that there is no racism in Brazil and have demanded the implementation of strategies to allow the creation of a larger black middle class. This when a mere 30 years ago one could have debated whether one existed in that nation. The visibility of more affluent blacks in the USA has also altered the notion based on implicit bias that blacks couldn't be seen as a people who could perform certain functions.


My father and an aunt attended international conferences in Cartagena in the early 80s. Two separate conferences that it. One in health care and the other in education. They reported that the only blacks that they saw (dark skinned people that is) were those selling in the streets. I gather that despite the problems that blacks in Colombia still face (and I mean the dark ones) things are somewhat better now.


It is the civil rights struggles of US blacks that gave many in Latin America and Europe the language to mount their fight for economic and political inclusion.
The civil rights movement was in the 60s and 70s and it is over, but you seem to have difficulty with that realization.

In my travels AND business in Latin America, I'm not a civil rights activist nor are my interactions limited to Black people. For that matter they are predominately not with Black people generally, unless I'm in the Dominican Republic.

I overall enjoyed the people much better, and depending on where I was, I loved the climate much better.

I love learning languages (in part because my background is in the humanities) which is why I generally avoid countries where English is the official language.

I like eating foods from around the world, and I even joined products like cacao tea in the Dominican Republic and Yerba Mate in Paraguay.
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Old 08-17-2017, 10:17 AM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,945,812 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agbor View Post
.I was taught this is who you are, and if people don't like you, that is not your problem and the people who don't like you, they are NOT ALL THAT and don't let them make you think that they are. Their attitude speaks more about them than you. You are better than them.
I do happen to agree with you. Sadly some young educated black millennials view themselves through the prism of how the white world sees them. They don't seem to have a narrative which centers themselves within their world.
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Old 08-17-2017, 10:26 AM
 
Location: NC/IL/MI
3,625 posts, read 7,179,145 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tominftl View Post
Just met a guy from Africa. He's white and was born there. If he got citizenship would he be considered an African-American?
that would be like asking if a black man born in Europe would be considered a European american, which we all know would never happen.
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Old 08-17-2017, 10:34 AM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,945,812 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
.
In a country in which many people hate Black people, there's no difference between you CaribNY and a junkie who has done time and has never worked. ..
And this is the issue that we are discussing. I DO NOT CARE IF A WHITE PERSON THINKS THIS OF ME BECAUSE I KNOW WHO I AM! Their thinking reflects their own ignorance. The world is changing and becoming more diverse and if they cannot relate to that they will not do too well.

.
I recall about 30 years ago a white waiter in a NYC restaurant used the "N" world on me. I fell off my chair in laughter and had to drink water to avoid choking. The female who I was with, who was a black American was more disturbed by my reaction than at the behavior of the waiter. She didn't see why I thought it was a joke My reaction was that some little waiter begging me for tips (which off course he didn't get) thinking that he was going to insult me was hysterical.

The waiter fled and I suspect was terrified that I would tell his boss to have him fired. I didn't become the hysterically angry Negro creating a disturbance, which I think was his intent, so it would have been he who would have looked as the bad actor here. He didn't show up again while I was in the restaurant. Another waiter came.

My point is that my reaction didn't serve to empower him as some one who had the ability to upset my day. In fact it made him realize how puny he was.
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Old 08-17-2017, 10:40 AM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,945,812 times
Reputation: 3799
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
The civil rights movement was in the 60s and 70s and it is over, ..
So since then black Americans have rolled over and are doing nothing to better their lives. You know if a black immigrant or a white person behaved like you do you would accuse them of bias and you would be right.

The civil rights movement, by removing legally enforced barriers that prevented blacks living in the USA, allowed them to use their energies, individual and collective to improve their lives. There has been a TREMENDOUS expansion of the black middle class. In 1960 most blacks were poor. In 2016 70% are NOT poor!

As to your interactions with people outside of the USA. Get this straight. Their interaction with you is governed by the fact that you are an American who has the money to vacation or engage in some other form of travel in their country. Like you said you didn't go looking for blacks, and most likely didn't find many because few of them were in the socio economic circles that you being a middle class American would have had access to.

You always adopt a condescending attitude as if you are the only person who has traveled. In terms of Latin America, I have been to the DR, Puerto Rico, Panama, Venezuela, Ecuador and Brazil. You know how a Dominican described me in terms of how I am viewed. As a gringo. And stated that speaking English and being educated would open lots of doors from me completely obliterating the fact that I am black. But you see because I entered those countries with "gringo privilege" doesn't mean that I didn't see how most blacks lived.
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