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Old 09-03-2017, 03:38 PM
 
24,247 posts, read 17,678,234 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
Who really cares what you enjoy. The civil rights is over and yet you endlessly wail over it. Is any one here saying that it still exists. In fact the POST civil rights era came about from the 70s.


Now ask yourself what movement currently exists to solve the myriads of problems which ails black populations? Black Lives Matter? Please give me a break. They don't even have concrete ideas as to how to resolve issues faced by young black (and dark skinned Hispanic) men which causes the problem to exist in the first place.


Certainly South Asians don't seem to have this issue to this degree, except for Indo Caribbean young men who are similarly places as are many black and Latino young men.
Black Lives Matter are contemporary and urban. They and their predecessors did good work in dealing with stop and frisks and dealing with other issues of polic brutality.
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Old 09-03-2017, 04:27 PM
 
24,247 posts, read 17,678,234 times
Reputation: 9175
My research interests are in learning languages and so African Americans AND West Indians are of no academic interest to me. I enjoy research of Latin languages and cultures. In an academic sense I would deal with multilingual Africans.

On a personal level I will deal with anyone of any race. CaribNY finds it difficult to understand that not all Black people have the same interests or desires.

I don't hate West Indians. I simply have no interest in going. I don't hate Southern Blacks. I do like living in areas of greater diversity than most of the South and the only reason I would go to the Deep South is to visit family.
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Old 09-03-2017, 07:47 PM
 
20,261 posts, read 11,233,056 times
Reputation: 20316
What is not being recognized is that "racism in America"--which had been unchanging for so many decades, is indeed changing now and has been diminishing since the 80s.

However, the diminishment is graduated by birth cohorts and the real-world changes that effected each birth cohort's racial world view.

We Boomers--black and white--were born and raised in an environment defined by the black-white racial divide. That single factor defines us Boomers more than anything else.

In my birth cohort as a child, there were nearly zero blacks in the common media. There were zero blacks in authority or intellectual roles on television or movies. In fact, there were hardly any blacks at all--there were only two blacks on television even as servants. Nor did we in the South have much of any contact with white people in real life as children. I never knew a white person by name until I was in the seventh grade. I can't recall even having spoken to a white person before then.

Millennials and Post-Millennials, black and white, are being raised in completely different environment in their birth cohort from Boomers. Even if they don't have much real-life contact with the other race, they see us on television. They see us as doctors, lawyers, even police officers.

Within their own birth cohorts I think Post-Millennials will experience King's dream. When Millennials and Most-Millennials come into control of society--when they are the legislators, the CEOs, the mayors of major metropolitan areas, the judges, and the president--they will not continue the same racial environment we Boomers were born into.

But they'll have to wait for us Boomers to die because clearly we have not and will not transition beyond our racist upbringing.

It would not be the smart thing to prepare Post-Millennials for the level and kind of racism we faced. I've already pointed out the problem with trying to apply the southern solution to the north. It would be just as erroneous to apply the Boomer solution (north or south) to their situation.

At the same time, we Boomers are still in control of the world, and our racism is still reflected in their society for as long as we run things. So the John L Lewises are still locked in combat with the Jeff Sessions' of this society, and they must be until we Boomers are dead.
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Old 09-03-2017, 08:29 PM
 
691 posts, read 921,972 times
Reputation: 643
What about the young Millennials carrying torches in Charlotte? I won't get into it on here, but I think some of the book
the "Isis Papers" might have a point. This is part of a larger global picture, the election in the U.S. , Brexit, the far right in
Europe, Russia. A reaction to the global world majority migrating into the global minority the European countries.


This seems to be a reversal of the global world order from 500 years ago when Europeans circumvented the globe
arriving at the global majority continents. These are fearful reactions to a perceived global power shift.

I will just say think of the song "Fear of a "Black" Planet" and leave it at that. In King's dream where black people will not be judged
for being black and judged by their character, well black people are going to have to be in power for that to happen. I would say if
"Black" Africa became a global superpower rivaling Europe, U.S and China, that might be a start.

Even as the U.S. will become a majority non-white nation, will it go the way of the old South Africa? or Brazil?, who will run it?, how will it
be run?

Last edited by Agbor; 09-03-2017 at 09:06 PM..
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Old 09-03-2017, 09:15 PM
 
20,261 posts, read 11,233,056 times
Reputation: 20316
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agbor View Post
What about the young Millennials carrying torches in Charlotte? I won't get into it on here, but I think some of the book
the "Isis Papers" might have a point. This is part of a larger global picture, the election in the U.S. , Brexit, the far right in
Europe, Russia. A reaction to the global world majority migrating into the global minority the European countries.


This seems to be a reversal of the global world order from 500 years ago when Europeans circumvented the globe
arriving at the global majority continents. These are fearful reactions to a perceived global power shift.

I will just say think of the song "Fear of a "Black" Planet" and leave it at that. In King's dream where black people will not be judged
for being black and judged by their character, well black people are going to have to be in power for that to happen. I would say if
"Black" Africa became a global superpower rivaling Europe, U.S and China, that might be a start.

Even as the U.S. will become a majority non-white nation, will it go the way of the old South Africa? or Brazil?, who will run it?, how will it
be run?
But the US will become a majority non-white nation.

As I said, for the American Boomer generation, the major dynamic has been Black Versus White. That is not going to be the major dynamic in the post-Boomer America--Asians and Latinos don't care--and certainly not when the Millinnials take control.

A lot of what we see happening with "those young Millennials carrying torches in Charlotte" is a reflection of this dying death-lunch of Boomer racism.

Interestingly, the Millennial cohorts of "those young Millennials carrying torches in Charlotte" very quickly identified many of them and have done their own version of "high tech lynching" on line where they live. Twenty-five years from now, Millennial hiring managers are going to be running their usual online searches for job applicants and will run across the hundreds of hate-filled posts against "those young Millennials carrying torches."

In the Millennial generation, "those young Millennials carrying torches in Charlotte" are aberrations; in my generation, they were average.

Last edited by Ralph_Kirk; 09-03-2017 at 10:14 PM..
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Old 09-03-2017, 11:11 PM
 
24,247 posts, read 17,678,234 times
Reputation: 9175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agbor View Post
What about the young Millennials carrying torches in Charlotte? I won't get into it on here, but I think some of the book
the "Isis Papers" might have a point. This is part of a larger global picture, the election in the U.S. , Brexit, the far right in
Europe, Russia. A reaction to the global world majority migrating into the global minority the European countries.


This seems to be a reversal of the global world order from 500 years ago when Europeans circumvented the globe
arriving at the global majority continents. These are fearful reactions to a perceived global power shift.

I will just say think of the song "Fear of a "Black" Planet" and leave it at that. In King's dream where black people will not be judged
for being black and judged by their character, well black people are going to have to be in power for that to happen. I would say if
"Black" Africa became a global superpower rivaling Europe, U.S and China, that might be a start.

Even as the U.S. will become a majority non-white nation, will it go the way of the old South Africa? or Brazil?, who will run it?, how will it
be run?
Very good post. I agree with you here.
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Old 09-03-2017, 11:18 PM
 
24,247 posts, read 17,678,234 times
Reputation: 9175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
But the US will become a majority non-white nation.

As I said, for the American Boomer generation, the major dynamic has been Black Versus White. That is not going to be the major dynamic in the post-Boomer America--Asians and Latinos don't care--and certainly not when the Millinnials take control.

A lot of what we see happening with "those young Millennials carrying torches in Charlotte" is a reflection of this dying death-lunch of Boomer racism.

Interestingly, the Millennial cohorts of "those young Millennials carrying torches in Charlotte" very quickly identified many of them and have done their own version of "high tech lynching" on line where they live. Twenty-five years from now, Millennial hiring managers are going to be running their usual online searches for job applicants and will run across the hundreds of hate-filled posts against "those young Millennials carrying torches."

In the Millennial generation, "those young Millennials carrying torches in Charlotte" are aberrations; in my generation, they were average.
Well the neo confederates committed illegal acts of violence. It's not surprising that people identified them and reported them to their employers.

I don't know if these people will face permanent consequences for this though. This is all still evolving.
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Old 09-04-2017, 09:11 AM
 
20,261 posts, read 11,233,056 times
Reputation: 20316
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
Well the neo confederates committed illegal acts of violence. It's not surprising that people identified them and reported them to their employers.
In my generation, it would have been totally surprising.

And that is a difference.

We were living in Hawaii when my daughter was in elementary school. Racialism and racism in Hawaii has a very different dynamic than it has on the mainland in that no race has a demographic majority and the dominant culture of the state is that of an extreme minority group (native Hawaiians).

Race isn't ignored, rather, it's talked about all the time, freely by everybody.
"Japanese are sneaky!"
"Chinese are loud!"
"Samoans like to fight!"
"Haoles are dumb!"
"Ha ha, let's go play soccer!"

This is the dynamic that Obama was raised in. There was not the black-white dynamic that permeates the mainland. It was the dynamic my daughter was raised in, where brown people with dark hair and dark eyes were considered lovely. When we left Honolulu and moved to Belleveue, NE, she suffered a cruel culture shock that I don't think she's ever recovered from.

There are some different things happening for Millennials and Post-Millennials that are just as different from the Civil Rights Era.

Asians and Latinos don't care about the black-white dynamic. Biracials are a whole new input. Racism is, frankly and truly a pale fraction of what it was when I was a kid--as Chris Rock (or Dave Chappell) said, truly, "this is the best generation of white people we've ever had."

What this basically means is that trying to Millennials and Post-Millennials the same old black-white dynamic is a mistake. They're going to have to find a different way in their adulthood than believing it's white people holding them back. The black-white dynamic of yesterday will be dead tomorrow.

Teaching a transition is difficult. We have to teach them, "There are some old dinosaurs still in power whose policies work against you now, but you have to learn to deal with you peers who aren't coming from the same direction, and their policies in 25 years will be different."
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Old 09-04-2017, 11:02 AM
 
24,247 posts, read 17,678,234 times
Reputation: 9175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
In my generation, it would have been totally surprising.

And that is a difference.

We were living in Hawaii when my daughter was in elementary school. Racialism and racism in Hawaii has a very different dynamic than it has on the mainland in that no race has a demographic majority and the dominant culture of the state is that of an extreme minority group (native Hawaiians).

Race isn't ignored, rather, it's talked about all the time, freely by everybody.
"Japanese are sneaky!"
"Chinese are loud!"
"Samoans like to fight!"
"Haoles are dumb!"
"Ha ha, let's go play soccer!"

This is the dynamic that Obama was raised in. There was not the black-white dynamic that permeates the mainland. It was the dynamic my daughter was raised in, where brown people with dark hair and dark eyes were considered lovely. When we left Honolulu and moved to Belleveue, NE, she suffered a cruel culture shock that I don't think she's ever recovered from.

There are some different things happening for Millennials and Post-Millennials that are just as different from the Civil Rights Era.

Asians and Latinos don't care about the black-white dynamic. Biracials are a whole new input. Racism is, frankly and truly a pale fraction of what it was when I was a kid--as Chris Rock (or Dave Chappell) said, truly, "this is the best generation of white people we've ever had."

What this basically means is that trying to Millennials and Post-Millennials the same old black-white dynamic is a mistake. They're going to have to find a different way in their adulthood than believing it's white people holding them back. The black-white dynamic of yesterday will be dead tomorrow.

Teaching a transition is difficult. We have to teach them, "There are some old dinosaurs still in power whose policies work against you now, but you have to learn to deal with you peers who aren't coming from the same direction, and their policies in 25 years will be different."
Millennials and post-millenials know that. The movements battling racism recently like Black Lives Matter are movements that deal with disparate impact and also deal with issues along more socioeconomic and on a more human rights issues. Fighting against the 1990s overexpansion of police authority isn't just a Black struggle, it's a struggle other groups are fighting as well (such as the push to provide treatment for opoid addicts instead of incarceration which was done in the 90s during the crack cocaine era). We all know this isn't the 1940s.

The issues that face working class people today are issues like lack of health insurance (some states wouldn't even do the medicaid expansion) lack of job stability, lack of job opportunities, only temporary or other low income jobs available, etc and this is true regardless of race. It's why Bernie Sanders did a lot better among young people of all races, including Blacks and Hispanics. The centrist Democrats like Hillary Clinton are DONE.

It's why I also talked about there's a difference between genuine acceptance and bare tolerance.
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Old 09-04-2017, 12:11 PM
 
Location: Formerly NYC by week; ATL by weekend...now Rio bi annually and ATL bi annually
1,206 posts, read 1,584,132 times
Reputation: 703
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
jgn2013 did not say "the same" he said "things in common."
He basically regurtitate what I said so what was the rebuttal about the blacks in my nnative new orleans having more in common with the cajun descendants than WASPS or should i say southern whites?? Since you answered for him why dont you copy and paste both of our comments and analyze them? Its crazy that you chimed in on this but please expound...
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