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Old 07-07-2018, 12:17 AM
 
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Originally Posted by elnrgby View Post
I am not aware of any "research" that shows the decision to try drugs of addiction is pathologic or genetic (if the decision to try drugs is a mental disorder, that would mean that two recent presidents have a mental disorder).. Tendency to get addicted (after initial try) is genetic, yes, but it is present in the large majority of people, ie, people who are genetically prone to addiction are three times more common than those who are resistant - so, if addiction is all genetic and no personal decisions are involved, then three quarters, or 240 million, of Americans would be addicted to cocaine. Statistically, I would probably also get readily addicted to coke if I ever tried it. That does not mean I have any kind of disorder.


Dude, does your Columbia Univ vocabulary consist of a single phrase? (ie, you really repeated "throw under the bus" more than enough times). I certainly do not "feel better about myself" because I might get murdered by a street person that needs money for coke, or because the cost of healthcare for the massive number of impoverished addicts increases my own healthcare premium.


Eric Clapton's drug addiction (as well as anything that Bush and Obama might have done) is not my concern because the addicts from their walks of life do not mug for coke money, and pay by themselves for their own rehab. Their addiction is a problem to themselves and their family only, not to me or to the rest of the society.



I have never taken coke, never intend to, but consider it just a regular matter, not an achievement or something that would make me feel better about myself.
Coke is expensive and street people tend not to use it. They tend to use cheaper drugs for starters.

The drugs don't make people rob people. The crime has to do with populations that don't work for a variety of reasons.

You ridiculously simplify things, and for someone who is allegedly a scientist you show no actual appreciation for science nor do you ever even cite sources.

https://www.dualdiagnosis.org/addict...ess-one-cause/

Example, people may turn to substances to cope with extremely traumatic or problematic experiences (drugs do deaden the pain). They may use alcohol or weed and increasingly turn to other substances. This really isn't any different from going to the doctor to take medication for mental illness (at least the concept of it). of course medication is regulated and controlled, while street drugs are not. But people on prescription medication can also do crazy things, and yes, people do get addicted from various forms of prescription medication. The medical profession in overprescribing painkillers helped create the opioid epidemic, and people also sell adderoll on the streets.

So again, trying to claim that people who use drugs are "bad" is ridiculously simplistic and no actual scientist would be SIMPLE minded enough to ever say something so stupid.
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Old 07-07-2018, 05:52 AM
 
1,743 posts, read 628,445 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
Coke is expensive and street people tend not to use it. They tend to use cheaper drugs for starters.

The drugs don't make people rob people. The crime has to do with populations that don't work for a variety of reasons.

You ridiculously simplify things, and for someone who is allegedly a scientist you show no actual appreciation for science nor do you ever even cite sources.

https://www.dualdiagnosis.org/addict...ess-one-cause/

Example, people may turn to substances to cope with extremely traumatic or problematic experiences (drugs do deaden the pain). They may use alcohol or weed and increasingly turn to other substances. This really isn't any different from going to the doctor to take medication for mental illness (at least the concept of it). of course medication is regulated and controlled, while street drugs are not. But people on prescription medication can also do crazy things, and yes, people do get addicted from various forms of prescription medication. The medical profession in overprescribing painkillers helped create the opioid epidemic, and people also sell adderoll on the streets.

So again, trying to claim that people who use drugs are "bad" is ridiculously simplistic and no actual scientist would be SIMPLE minded enough to ever say something so stupid.

Exactly because I had done "real science" for a long time, I know how easy it is for an experienced researcher to manipulate data to "prove" anything anybody wants to prove. Good scientific studies are extremely rare. The chief problem in showing a biologic causation (the only one that interests me; the Freudian-type stuff about lack of maternal care causing every problem in the world has been debunked long ago), so, the chief problem in showing a biologic causation is a huge number of confounding factors. Very few solid biomedical studies (let alone the weak material without prospective design with matching controls, that you keep bringing up) manage to properly control for these confounding factors. For a practicing medical professional, that means in practice that one can only rely on a track record of interventions with proven good outcome; all other research is of marginal or no value. Just because somebody makes a living as a scientist and his products are labeled science, these products do not convey any automatic value or respectability, if you know how to analyze them.


This forum is not in the center of my life, and I do have a life outside of it (unlike you, it seems). I am just a casual participator here, ie, I don't publish scientific articles here but voice private opinions, and it strikes me as insane to waste time searching for citations to back my ordinary-citizen opinions :-). But if you insist, I think the info that approx 75% of people get addicted to cocaine after trying it casually can be found somewhere in NIDA (National Institute for Drug Abuse) compendium of information.


Btw, I am in favor of legalizing all drugs (including heroin), imposing a tax on drug trade in the amount necessary to raise the funds for treatment/management of addiction, and keep that issue separate from all other taxation. Addiction is not anybody's essential need but a choice (just as for me constant travel is not an essential need but a choice - although, like all strong habits, it feels like an essential need). An addict has no more right to ask me to fund the management of his addiction than I have right to ask him to fund my travels.

Last edited by elnrgby; 07-07-2018 at 06:57 AM..
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Old 07-07-2018, 09:23 AM
 
24,247 posts, read 17,678,234 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elnrgby View Post
Exactly because I had done "real science" for a long time, I know how easy it is for an experienced researcher to manipulate data to "prove" anything anybody wants to prove. Good scientific studies are extremely rare. The chief problem in showing a biologic causation (the only one that interests me; the Freudian-type stuff about lack of maternal care causing every problem in the world has been debunked long ago), so, the chief problem in showing a biologic causation is a huge number of confounding factors. Very few solid biomedical studies (let alone the weak material without prospective design with matching controls, that you keep bringing up) manage to properly control for these confounding factors. For a practicing medical professional, that means in practice that one can only rely on a track record of interventions with proven good outcome; all other research is of marginal or no value. Just because somebody makes a living as a scientist and his products are labeled science, these products do not convey any automatic value or respectability, if you know how to analyze them.


This forum is not in the center of my life, and I do have a life outside of it (unlike you, it seems). I am just a casual participator here, ie, I don't publish scientific articles here but voice private opinions, and it strikes me as insane to waste time searching for citations to back my ordinary-citizen opinions :-). But if you insist, I think the info that approx 75% of people get addicted to cocaine after trying it casually can be found somewhere in NIDA (National Institute for Drug Abuse) compendium of information.


Btw, I am in favor of legalizing all drugs (including heroin), imposing a tax on drug trade in the amount necessary to raise the funds for treatment/management of addiction, and keep that issue separate from all other taxation. Addiction is not anybody's essential need but a choice (just as for me constant travel is not an essential need but a choice - although, like all strong habits, it feels like an essential need). An addict has no more right to ask me to fund the management of his addiction than I have right to ask him to fund my travels.
It actually hasn't. It something you don't understand, and everything you don't understand you try to disparage because you don't want to deal with things that make you uncomfortable.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/b...o-hand-in-hand

Interesting that this says lower cognitive abilities can lead to "conservativism" and "racism".
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Old 07-07-2018, 12:12 PM
 
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While I am not right wing or any wing, the pseudo-research you are citing is pseudo because it does not have a proper control group anywhere, and does not exclude (or even look for) confounding factors. If you conducted the study of correlation between conservativism and IQ in a group of subjects where each IQ rank is equally represented (ie, a group composed of 1/3 morons, 1/3 average people, and 1/3 superachievers), my educated guess is that you would get a bimodal correlation, ie, both the lowest and the highest IQ would correlate with conservativism. These correlations tremendously depend on the composition of the group studied.



In fact, I have seen a poll conducted nationwide among physicians in a certain surgical specialty (which completely corresponds to what I know from personal experience): about 50% of these physicians are socially liberal and economically conservative, about 40% are socially and economically conservative, and aboit 10% are liberal. Nobody sweating at 3 am in the operating room over a gunshot wound victim is eager to give his/her hard-earned income to the perpetrator of the gunshot fight just because the perpetrator had a hard childhood. No thanks, the doctor is having a hard enough adulthood, and would rather spend his/her hard earned money on something different.

Last edited by elnrgby; 07-07-2018 at 12:37 PM..
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Old 07-15-2018, 08:47 PM
 
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Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
Mediterranean Europeans are pretty happy, as you noted above. Spain, Portugal, and Italy in particular. Not sure about Greeks or people from the Eastern Mediterranean.
Exactly whereas Germans certainly aren't. Even many Scandinavians consider themselves to be quite monolithic and boring. As to Eastern Europe.....

There is a need for some Europeans to feel that they are superior to Americans even when they cannot even explain why.
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Old 07-15-2018, 08:49 PM
 
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Originally Posted by elnrgby View Post
No, I have never lived in the suburbs. I live in two small condos in the old historic central cores of two large US cities, one on each coast. My parents were in language-teaching professions, had worked on/off in two German-speaking countries (and still live in a large city where the native language is German). I traveled with them all over Europe when I was a kid - Europe is not big, and you can visit a diffetent universe just over the weekend. My significant other (we were together for a long time; he died) was French. I spent many years in training with a very international mix of people from everywhere. So, I really am solidly international... just a description of where I am coming from; otherwise, I don't have anything else to add to the stuff I slready said. Oh, I do want to add that I "mix" with all kinds of Americans - my American professional colleagues are not at all shallow, certainly not stupid - they are smart, they are professional, but everything I already said still applies to them on a personal level.
And you claim that Germans are interesting
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Old 07-15-2018, 08:56 PM
 
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Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
Again you speak on things you know nothing about.



As a result, Latinos in Spain are not marginalized, and Dominicans, Mexicans, Brazilians, and the like do very well. .
Have you checked the backgrounds of the Latin American immigrants who you claim do well in Spain with those who you claim are ghettoized in the USA. If Spain was so wonderful wouldn't all of Puerto Rico and the DR not go there instead of to the USA?

I think that its more complex than that.
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Old 07-15-2018, 09:01 PM
 
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Originally Posted by elnrgby View Post
It is normal for a former colonial power to give immigration preference to its former subject.
First its not normal for former colonial powers to give any immigrant preference to their former subjects. The UK and France, the two largest former colonial powers, aside from Spain, certainly do not. It is way easier for Jamaican and Haitians to migrate to the USA than to the UK/France.


Your attitude towards poor people is like that of most Americans. To be poor is to be a leech and a loser. Funny thing is that you are more "American" than you think that you are.
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Old 07-16-2018, 04:24 AM
 
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Originally Posted by caribny View Post
Have you checked the backgrounds of the Latin American immigrants who you claim do well in Spain with those who you claim are ghettoized in the USA. If Spain was so wonderful wouldn't all of Puerto Rico and the DR not go there instead of to the USA?

I think that its more complex than that.
There are a lot of Dominicans here. Puerto Ricans, not so much. There are a lot of Colombians and Venezuelans here.

Different people when they leave a country want to go to different countries.

For starters Latin American immigrants moving to Spain do not have to learn a new language. It's fairly easy for them to get citizenship here. The university system here is cheap (unlike America) and the healthcare system is free. It's a lot easier for them to assimilate.

You also find a number of South Americans with say an Italian grandparent who get Italian citizenship.
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Old 07-16-2018, 04:32 AM
 
24,247 posts, read 17,678,234 times
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Originally Posted by caribny View Post
First its not normal for former colonial powers to give any immigrant preference to their former subjects. The UK and France, the two largest former colonial powers, aside from Spain, certainly do not. It is way easier for Jamaican and Haitians to migrate to the USA than to the UK/France.


Your attitude towards poor people is like that of most Americans. To be poor is to be a leech and a loser. Funny thing is that you are more "American" than you think that you are.
A lot of immigrants from Eastern Europe go out of their way to assimilate into the white American mainstream. It's pretty typical.

With that said, it's not normal for former colonial powers to give this much preference to former subjects. But Spanish telecommunication companies provide the telecom services throughout it's former empire. The biggest banks in the former Spanish empire are Santander and BBVA of Spain. Spanish utility companies are huge in Latin America. As are Spanish energy companies like Respol.

Those governments in exchange for allowing Spanish interests to essentially own huge parts of their economy likely wanted something in return. Therefore it's a lot easier for Latin Americans (and from the Equatorial Guinea and the Phillipines) to migrate to Spain and get Spanish citizenship.

During the long boom from the 80s till the crisis, many working class and poor Latin Americans moved to Spain, as they needed the construction labor. The crisis occurred.

So Spain revised it's immigration requirements. Foreigners have to come on certain visas like student, work, and non lucrative and one must show one's bank account balance at a certain level. Or if some is partially Jewish one can get the Sephardic citizenship, but that requires one to spend a certain amount of money. In recent years they act to screen out poor people.

Africans and Asians who are capable of investing 500,000 euros will find themselves on an expedited path to citizenship. This could mean buying a house, investing in stocks, or opening up a business.
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