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.As an aside, has it occurred to you that Barack Obama did not spend one single day of his childhood living in an African-American household, society or neighborhood, and cannot know from personal experience that that would be like. He is the 44th US president to be raised as a white child by a white family in a white social framework. It would be "unnatural" for Obama to assume that he has anything in common with even a Black American, much less a Black African.
Obama comes with his own challenges. When most black boys encountered racism outside their homes they had a supportive family to reassure them that they weren't inferior. Obama had grandparents who didn't know how to handle that problem. In fact he reported that his grandmother had more than streak of racism, though not directed towards him of course.
Obama identifies as a black man because that is how the USA that he grew up into treated him. Unlike others he had to figure out on his own how to deal with this.
Obama has married a black woman and has a black mother in law. So he knows exactly what the black experience in the USA is. He of course has closer ties to whites than do most blacks, so is better aware of the nuances of their attitudes and so is better able to discern true racism, and so less suspicious of white motives. He therefore radiates behaviors that will better enable him to gain the trust of whites than will be true of blacks who grew up in segregated environments. One only needs to compare his college experiences with that of his wife.
I will suggest that Obama is probably little different from many black kids growing up in majority white suburban environments in this supposedly "post racial" USA.
. Off the top of my head black Americans seem to have a higher tolerance for criminality, noise than the general public.
You know a black woman from Zimbabwe said the same thing about West Africans and then wailed how terrified of them she is. This is a broad sentiment in South Africa towards West African immigrants to that nation, so she isn't alone with that view.
This is what broad stereotyping of entire groups does. Eventually we all get impacted by it as there will always be someone who will stereotype us as well.
I agree, and that is the major difference between Caucasian immigrants such as the Irish and the Italian and post-1964 immigrants compared to African-Americans. It really isn't slavery, it's Jim Crow--which is a 20th century phenomenon that was still in full force in my early childhood and is only now on the ebb. As I've said before, it will take at least the death of the Boomer Generation to assert that Jim Crow is gone.
This ought to be the focus. Guess what. An argument for "reparations" might even be in order. Those whites who benefitted from the GI Bill and FHA mortgages, that were denied to blacks, would not be able to deny that they, and their descendants benefitted from federal programs that were denied to blacks.
I will advance a theory and that is that many former slaves had a sense of hope and euphoria once slavery ended, to do what they had to do to get ahead. They did so not expecting a hostile world to assist.
Its the endless blows of de jure Jim Crow in the South and the cruel irony that the "Promised Land" of the North/Midwest, ended up being no better, that I think destroyed the resolve of many. This leading to the development of an oppositional hopelessness so viable in many poorer black communities today.
Even though that era has ended the continuing institutional racism fosters a sense of futility within many black communities.
The big difference between black Americans and black immigrants is Jim Crow. Even in Africa one can see the same problem when comparing black South Africans with West African immigrants who have arrived in that country since apartheid ended. Apartheid did some serious damage that will not end just because that odious system is finished.
I know some one married to a black American whose family comes straight out of the "Color Purple" scenario. It is to the credit of this woman's family that they done as well as they have. Even they know picking cotton (as kids) as semi share croppers and this is a person who is just 50.
So when whites come with this, why don't they get over it nonsense they need to stop. In fact Ireland only just got over the damage of their disastrous history with the British and oppression of the Catholic church a few decades ago and they have been independent for 100 years.
So why do people think that AAs will get over it when de facto Jim Crow really ended in the early 70s, and its really only since the 90s that one can argue that they have some semblance of equality in how they are treated when compared to others.
I suggest that people research the role that the Federal gov't played in creating the ghetto, with all its negative qualities. Contrary to popular belief segregation in the North is very much a mid 20th century phenomenon. Harlem prior to WWII was a diverse community.
You make interesting points, and maybe this is related to the "psychological effects" that you mentioned in a couple posts above, but I don't think it's necessarily all about living conditions (i.e. the ghetto). Chicago is approx 30% Hispanic and 30% Black, yet almost 80% of violent crimes are committed by blacks. But blacks and Hispanics live in comparable neighborhoods as far as SES. In fact one neighborhood, Lawndale, is a poor neighborhood as a whole. The north side of Lawndale is 90% black, the south side is 90% Hispanic, yet the north side is by far the more dangerous/crime filled area (even though the whole neighborhood would be considered the ghetto).
Maybe because blacks have had to endure through segregation and all of the psychological effects (and over a much longer period of time) is why it is harder for them to combat the negative conditions of the "ghetto" than other, newer immigrant groups. Other groups, including Africans, may not understand this.
I definitely think you should right about the psychological aspects that many people, including myself, don't really think about.
It won't be just language. It will be the very way you walk, the way you stand, the way you put your clothes on that morning, the way you glance at other people, the length you hold eye contact and with whom you hold it for that length. It will be the way you hold your head, when you smile, who you smile at, how long you smile.
If you were dead, they might have to guess.
I kind of figured that; cultural differences is how they identify themselves from tribe to tribe so that was to be expected but I didn't specify that in my initial post. From my experience, the Africans I've met are, of course, very dark skinned and while I consider myself to be dark-skinned, if I were to be placed in a room full of west Africans I would stick out like a sour thumb even if I dressed and acted like them. I remember actually when my family went to Seattle and we were walking through the city centre and passed by a lot of Africans. They dressed western and didn't exhibit any explicit African mannerisms, but we were able to tell they were west african or east african from the way they looked, particularly their skin colour since it tended to be a more "earthy" dark tone than what I'm used to seeing from my black-american counterparts.
I imagine the difference would be as obvious as in this picture:
Well those two girls in the middle look more mixed. Most Black-Americans look more like Denzel Washington as far as complexion.
Eh, I can agree with that but add maybe ranging from his skin tone to being a lighter brown. I'm not mixed but yet I have members in my family who look like both of those girls. My grandmother for example has a skintone to those two girls and according to her ancestry test she's some 85% sub-saharan african. Actually facially she looks vaguely similar to the girl on the right since she has a thin nose. Likewise I have features similar to Washington's (classical african looking features) but yet I'm a distinct skin tone than him
. Chicago is approx 30% Hispanic and 30% Black, yet almost 80% of violent crimes are committed by blacks. But blacks and Hispanics live in comparable neighborhoods as far as SES. .
This in fact makes my point. The Hispanics in Chicago are mainly Mexicans or their offspring, so they arrive with a whole different range of issues when compared to the black Chicagoans, who in fact arrived from the worst part of Jim Crow, and that was Mississippi.
They also arrived at a different time in the USA's history and so were spared some of its impacts.
Thanks for proving my point. And yes the psychic impact of an AMERICAN group, some arguing the most American, aside from Native Americans, receiving such shabby treatment, despite their valiant struggles does at some point wear down the spirit. I say among the most American because they alone among the non indigenous groups cannot align themselves with anywhere outside of the USA.
They left the oppressive Jim Crow South heading to the "Promised Land", and saw Jim Crow laughing at them when they arrived in Chicago. Cruel trick. Treated WORSE than even non English speaking foreigners from Europe. Forced into the worst housing and limited to the worst jobs. And that is when they could even find work. Then harassed by the police, many of whom were immigrants. Hard to sell the concept of the "American Dream".
Now life has changed and opportunities have greatly improved but when the "ghetto" enters not only the body but also the soul, and it becomes culture it doesn't just stop just because conditions have SOMEWHAT improved.
In fact it has been recently discovered that the white working class in the UK performs worse, using multiple measures than do even the descendants of UK black immigrants (who are arguably worse off than US black immigrants). This despite being native whites in a society where being white and British clearly offers advantages. The point is that the historically oppressive UK class system has led to the development of certain pathologies which reduce their ability to see opportunity even when it exists.
I suspect that we will soon discover ditto about the white working class of the USA, now that more attention is being paid to it. Already drug addiction, alcoholism, and suicides are now worse among this group than among even the AA poor.
When a people become trapped into a lower caste syndrome its a problem to get them out of it. Doesn't matter whether its the British white working class, or the American black poor.
Likewise I have features similar to Washington's (classical african looking features) but yet I'm a distinct skin tone than him
Don't think that Denzel has classical West African features. He clearly is a black man of the Americas. Maybe as much as 15% white.
Its interesting that even in the Caribbean American blacks might stand out, even though their physical characteristics will be less different as some of the same mixing has also occurred.
Americans carry themselves in a certain way. Hey even Caribbean immigrants resident in the USA are spotted on visits back to the Caribbean. I know this when the waitress assumes that I will pay in US currency.
I think that people who live in Africa and the Caribbean have more languid movements, given the high humidity.
I will hypothesize that a black person from the South (smaller cities) might more easily pass in the Caribbean, and maybe even Africa, given similar climatically induced languid movements. Kind of hard to be brisk when its 90 degrees and dripping in humidity, especially in a laid back environment.
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