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Of course Sierra Leone, which has been independent for almost 60 years, is such a "success" story that that idiot can write his Uncle Tom nonsense about American blacks. Yes this nation ranking amongst the poorest in the world, despite its ample reserves of water and natural resources! Why are the people there so dumb that they cannot do better?
The article by the immigrant is actually pretty balanced. Sierra Leone is a wretched country though.
Aah yes, Haiti another success story and evidence about how progressive blacks in the 21st century are. Been independent almost as long as the USA and yet they are the most BACKWARD nation in the Caribbean.
The only thing that i want out of a Haitian's mouth is an explanation as to why this is and I bet it will include ample complaints about how whites treated that nation.
Top complaint I get is some debt they had to pay France. When I point out the debt was paid off in the 40s. They then respond with well it’s racism and USA. I then point out in the 60s DR and Haiti had the same GDP per capita but now DR’s GDP per capita is 10x higher, nothing but crickets from them.
I'm not writing this to start an argument with you. I just want to offer a different POV. The United States has the whole world thinking that "American" means just people from this country and that's not true. So, this is what I wish that people of African descent in the Caribbean, Central America and South America would understand: You are ALL African-Americans, too! The Caribbean is a part of the continent of North America. Central America is part of the continent of North America, we just call it "central" because of where it lies in proximity to the largest land mass on North America and the continent of South America. But, altogether the entire geographical area is AMERICA and we are ALL Americans. The United States does not own, or exclusively get to use, the word "America". And, because ALL of the people of African descent who live in THE AMERICAS GOT HERE THE SAME WAY AND ARE THE SAME PEOPLE (your ancestors just got off the ship before ours, that's all), we really need to stop this separation, because we are ALL African-American! Having different cultural practices due to where our ancestors got off the slave ships does NOT negate that. And, in fact, we probably have more things in common than not.
So, I think we really need to move past this "I'm not African American" thing. Yes, actually, you are. You're just not an AA from the USA... and that's OK. I'm an AA from the USA (even though I don't like that term), but there are some things about the culture that I don't take part in, to the point that I'm called a white girl or "siditty" by some of my fellow AAs who misguidedly think they have to "keep it real". I just SMH and keep it moving. We can't help them all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny
You can come up with outlandish ideas at times. At what point did I claim that Africans were the largest immigrant group in the USA? The reason why poor Africans cannot come to the USA is that they must cross a whole ocean to get here, meaning that they must arrive through ports of entry.
Americans don't need visas to enter much of Europe. A poor person can more easily live underground than you or I as they will be more willing to work in the underground economy. So what keeps poor black Americans back is that they don't see the return from this to be worth the risk, but I can assure you that there are loads of poor Irish and other Europeans living in the USA illegally.
This is where this whole DACA things comes about. The reason why its almost exclusively Hispanics who are engaged in this battle is because it is those who have land borders with the USA who can enter illegally, so it will be Mexicans and Central Americans. The vast majority of Caribbean immigrants are here in the USA LEGALLY, because it is hard to get visitors' visas or student visas to enter the USA. Yes one can over stay but then the US State Dept. indicates that less than 3% do.
Why don't you check neighborhoods in NYC that you know to be mainly West Indian and then check that statistics indicate that only 20% of the population is. While the census allows PRs, Cubans, Indians and others to check their national box I can only check the "African American/black" box, so I am recorded as an African American, even though clearly I am not. So don't use statistics to gauge how many Africans live in NYC.
Since I have been living in NYC the West Indian population has been estimated at 25% of the overall black population, even including places like East Flatbush. Even after the heavy immigration of the 80s and 90s and the heavy outmigration of black Americans since then. You know fully well that the population is larger than this
A Nigerian doctor isn't going to endure the danger, the hardships or the humiliation that being an economic refugee entails. The end result being selling counterfeits on the streets of Paris or Rome.
Its the poor, whose lives are already hard, who will undergo this. And in fact the tragedy in all of this is that these trips are funded by the sale of the limited assets owned by the extended family and also be incurring debt. Those being sold in Libya are suffering through this as they cannot repay the traffickers. So their families back home are now destitute as they sold off everything, and the migrant who was to help them is now enslaved some where in North Africa.
Top complaint I get is some debt they had to pay France. When I point out the debt was paid off in the 40s. They then respond with well it’s racism and USA. I then point out in the 60s DR and Haiti had the same GDP per capita but now DR’s GDP per capita is 10x higher, nothing but crickets from them.
Horrible leadership at the hands of Papa Doc and Baby Doc wrecked the country. Haitians now flee the country in such numbers it breaks the economy for those left. Venezuela is the same way. In a very short time 1 percent of Haiti's population went to Chile alone. Large numbers have gone to Brazil, Mexico, etc and more will find themselves in other nations as well. Venezuelans move in large numbers all over South America, the Caribbean, the US, and Europe. These two countries are completely FAILED states at this point, and it would take many generations to repair things.
Horrible leadership at the hands of Papa Doc and Baby Doc wrecked the country. Haitians now flee the country in such numbers it breaks the economy for those left. Venezuela is the same way. In a very short time 1 percent of Haiti's population went to Chile alone. Large numbers have gone to Brazil, Mexico, etc and more will find themselves in other nations as well. Venezuelans move in large numbers all over South America, the Caribbean, the US, and Europe. These two countries are completely FAILED states at this point, and it would take many generations to repair things.
I've read about the Haitians fleeing to Chile. They found a loophole in Chile's immigration policy that essentially gives anyone that can get there a work permit. So in short order upwards of 150K Haitians have arrived there in a few years. The Chileans don't want to close the loophole as the left wingers are all about open borders and the center right government thinks there is a labor shortage.
Of course now many Haitians can't find jobs and are now penniless. These people suffer a lot.
I can see Venezuela recovering though they have a bourgeois class. A right wing coup should get things back on track there. Haiti is hopeless.
Top complaint I get is some debt they had to pay France. When I point out the debt was paid off in the 40s. They then respond with well it’s racism and USA. I then point out in the 60s DR and Haiti had the same GDP per capita but now DR’s GDP per capita is 10x higher, nothing but crickets from them.
Haiti does have a seriously and aggressively selfish and incompetent elite. Both the new elites who arose through the military and corrupt ties to the various despots, and the old land owning/merchant class.
If Haiti had competent and committed leadership they would be where the DR is now. That nation has also had its own share of tragedy.
Haitians need to stop being so defensive when talking to foreigners. That nation's problems are too evident.
I'm not writing this to start an argument with you. I just want to offer a different POV. The United States has the whole world thinking that "American" means just people from this country and that's not true.
So, I think we really need to move past this "I'm not African American" thing. Yes, actually, you are. You're just not an AA from the USA... and that's OK. I'm an AA from the USA (even though I don't like that term), but there are some things about the culture that I don't take part in, to the point that I'm called a white girl or "siditty" by some of my fellow AAs who misguidedly think they have to "keep it real". I just SMH and keep it moving. We can't help them all.
What some Americans, including AAs need to understand is that every society evolved differently. That means that attitudes differ.
So yes each nation has its own story. Even within the Spanish Caribbean Cuba, DR and PR have very different narratives. The DR is dominated by its neighbor, Haiti. Cuba dominated by its neighbor, the USA and by the heavy immigration from both Europe and trafficking of enslaved Africans in the 19th C.
An AA who looks like Rashida Jones is "black" in the USA. They faced racism as much as did those who looked like Snipes. In Jamaica and Haiti people looking like her were part of the OPPRESSIVE class, sometimes even worse than the fully white.
And as you said even many US born blacks, with ancestry all the way to slave ships which arrived in the British North American colonies, don't like the term "African American".
I've read about the Haitians fleeing to Chile. They found a loophole in Chile's immigration policy that essentially gives anyone that can get there a work permit. So in short order upwards of 150K Haitians have arrived there in a few years. The Chileans don't want to close the loophole as the left wingers are all about open borders and the center right government thinks there is a labor shortage.
Of course now many Haitians can't find jobs and are now penniless. These people suffer a lot.
I can see Venezuela recovering though they have a bourgeois class. A right wing coup should get things back on track there. Haiti is hopeless.
Haiti has a bourgeois class, please don't fool yourself. They in fact are as much of the problem as Papa Doc was.
Haitians have a problem and that is every nation has their issues and cannot indefinitely support people fleeing from a failed state. Many Haitians seems to have an entitlement mentality thinking that because they have a problem, and they do, that other nations should be obligated to help. Well the scale of a nation imploding reaches the point where nations eventually say "Enough!". True for Haiti, also for Venezuela.
I suggest that you get off your "left wingers" kick. In fact Chile is now closing down entrance for Haitians due to the sudden increase in numbers over the past 2 years. This as Brazil's economic woes forced Haitians to find an alternative. What kept it open aren't the "left wingers" but employers who like cheap, exploitable and hard working employees. Haitians with their desperation, being a perfect source for those. To call Chile a left wing nation is a serious joke.
What some Americans, including AAs need to understand is that every society evolved differently. That means that attitudes differ.
So yes each nation has its own story. Even within the Spanish Caribbean Cuba, DR and PR have very different narratives. The DR is dominated by its neighbor, Haiti. Cuba dominated by its neighbor, the USA and by the heavy immigration from both Europe and trafficking of enslaved Africans in the 19th C.
An AA who looks like Rashida Jones is "black" in the USA. They faced racism as much as did those who looked like Snipes. In Jamaica and Haiti people looking like her were part of the OPPRESSIVE class, sometimes even worse than the fully white.
And as you said even many US born blacks, with ancestry all the way to slave ships which arrived in the British North American colonies, don't like the term "African American".
I was reading that was the mistake Garvey made when he tried to organize in the USA. I read he only wanted
"pure" blacks in his organization...He operated under the assumption that as in Jamaica the mixed race elites
were on the side of the whites.
Not realizing that American whites viewed "blacks" and "colored" just as black, they didn't make a distinction
between the two like the British did in the Caribbean. Based on that assumption, he alienated a lot of "black"
Americans.
As I had mentioned in an earlier post...an AA innocently brought 2 Haitian friends together one was light and one was dark
and world war 3 erupted in his living room. It would be like a Haitian brought 2 Americans together in Haiti thinking he was
helping out and one American was a David Duke follower and the other was a Farrakhan follower. World war 3 would erupt in
HIS living room.
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