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Old 01-10-2014, 10:27 AM
hvl
 
403 posts, read 441,354 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
The population in the Congo was cut in half during part of the rule under Belgium. Limbs cut off, people killed, starved, kidnapped,etc.

Can it be denied that the Belgian government used colonialism to exploit the Congo, and build up its own nation? Can it be disputed that the benefits the Congolese had were secondary?

BTW, the first recorded case of HIV in the world was in the Congo, in 1959, while it was still under Belgian rule.
There were 2 very, very different phases :

1. the Congo as private property of the belgian King leopold :
That was awful, absolutely no doubt about it. This was not colonialism by the belgian state but private management of the worst kind by one of history's great monster.
I'd like to mention though that during that period, at any given time, there were only a few 1000 whites people in the country itself. What I mean is that the killing, the starving, the raping, the chopping off hands was enthusiastically done by local Congolese people. *shrug*. It's not that surprising anyways since black people had shown for centuries previously that they had not much problem killing, enslaving and selling each other.

Don't think I'm being unfair on black people for saying that. For several centuries, the northern Europeans like the germanics and the slavs were dumb enough to sell each other into slavery to whoever wanted to buy and they weren't respected by anybody. A good thing about human history is that it shows that peoples don't have to remain barbarians and savages forever. As was seen among the northern europeans, eventually people begin to think about what's happening to them and they stop being dumb savages and they rise to civilisation.


2. the Congo as a colony of Belgium, the state :
Of course,this was colonialism but it was extremely different from what happened during Leopold's rule.
Schools were built. Fields were planted. Employment was provided, etc. I've read about this in books and some Congolese acquaintances of mine tell me about how it was during their childhood and that of their parents. I'm not going to deny that they were 2nd class citizens in their own lands. Of course they were.
I'm just saying that in terms of material comfort and freedom from gross violence, war, etc they were better off in many ways. I don't think that you had rebels roaming around killing, raping and eating people during the belgian government's rule.


Lots of black africans will freely admit that a lot of things were run better during the colonies.
Of course most people won't make the leap to advcate a return of colonialism because humans beings value freedom. Of course they do! It doesn't keep them from being honest about the way things used to be.

I'm not sure what your point about HIV is.
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Old 01-11-2014, 07:21 AM
 
686 posts, read 959,044 times
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South Africa is pretty developed.
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Old 01-12-2014, 02:32 PM
 
Location: Maryland
18,624 posts, read 16,448,083 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hvl View Post
If EdwardA is like me, he cares enough about black people that he simply can't stand to see how contented we are, in general, with mediocrity. He probably can't stand how ignorant we too often are and how blind an arrogant we are when we think that we got everything allright, when in reality we're doing very poorly and that it's not just the fault of someone else. I think of myself as someone who wishes more for the black race than what we have now and what we're told that we're supposed to dream about. I see myself as someone who thinks the situation with our race is too serious to refuse to see how bad it is.

Some positive :

Barbados and the Bahamas aren't in Africa but they probably have a good chance of becoming developed
Black nations. I think all of the caribbean black countries should learn at the feet of the Bajans and Bahamians and the Bermudans too.

I wish the best to Botswana. I admire them very, very much. I have a feeling that the aids problem there is real but much exagerated. Botswana is doing well and it wouldn't be doing well if even 25% of its population was on the verge of death. There has to be something wrong about the aids numbers.
Botswana is blessed with good leaders. It's blessed with ethnic quasi-homogeneity so no tribal strife garbage. Also, from what I can see, Botswana is blessed with an attitude about Europeans that's quite different from that of most Africans. They don't seem to feel all that resentment about the White man. It might have to do with the fact that they were a protectorate and not a colony.
So i hope Botswana can remain united, homogeneous, culturally vibrant, economically dynamic and democratic and determined to become a respectable, admired Black country.

I've been hearing about Ghana's bright future since the 80s so I don't know.

About Nigeria :
What would be awesome would be for all the smart, educated Nigerians to all move to one corner of that coutry and to take it over and make their own country. It could be only 10 million people but a country made up of only smart Nigerians would be awesome imho!

Equatorial Guinea : are you kidding me ? lol.

Gabon : That country wasted its window of opportunity into development, imho. It's a sad tale.

South-Africa : Sorry to be pessimistic but I think south-africa will be declining for a long time until it starts to rise again. South-Africa used to be a piece of Europe in Africa. The Europeans don't rule the place anymore so it's going to decline. Sorry.

Central African Republic: lol

Kenya :
Maybe. One thing that I find annoying is that all the development in Kenya seems to be done by and for Indians. Nothing against them but whenever I read about some awesome development in Kenya, it's always Indians involved and not black people. Sad.
Bingo what I find comical is I'm probably more of a Black nationalist then they could ever hope to be.
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Old 01-12-2014, 02:33 PM
 
Location: Maryland
18,624 posts, read 16,448,083 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mintgum84 View Post
South Africa is pretty developed.
Developed by Whites.
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Old 01-12-2014, 07:13 PM
 
4,654 posts, read 3,714,102 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwardA View Post
Developed by Whites.
I disagree,developed by asians and blacks too.
Without black labor nothing can be done in SA.
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Old 01-13-2014, 02:18 PM
 
Location: Eretz Yisrael
21,376 posts, read 24,142,259 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scobby View Post
I disagree,developed by asians and blacks too.
Do we need to show you the history of this nation before 1990?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Africa
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Old 01-15-2014, 06:54 AM
Status: "I hate living in Georgia!!" (set 19 days ago)
 
48,282 posts, read 45,557,145 times
Reputation: 15366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruzhany View Post
Do we need to show you the history of this nation before 1990?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Africa
Blacks were doing alot of the grunt labor,and in that way, made a contribution. In fact, when one really looks at South Africa, it was basically a dictatorship.
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Old 09-12-2014, 06:15 PM
Status: "I hate living in Georgia!!" (set 19 days ago)
 
48,282 posts, read 45,557,145 times
Reputation: 15366
Quote:
Originally Posted by scobby View Post
I disagree,developed by asians and blacks too.
Without black labor nothing can be done in SA.
Blacks do alot of the grunt labor.
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Old 10-25-2014, 02:58 PM
 
Location: London, UK
9,992 posts, read 9,969,936 times
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I know people say Botswana has a high HIV rate but the US has a high obesity rate! So what, in my eyes Botswana is a developed country.

By 2100 half of Africa will be developed to varying degrees.

South Africa seems like a highly divided Country....
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Old 10-25-2014, 03:57 PM
 
Location: London, UK
9,992 posts, read 9,969,936 times
Reputation: 3473
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meowtotheworld View Post
Ah, the British affinity for understatement.
Huh?
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