U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Africa
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
 
Old 11-14-2013, 03:59 PM
 
285 posts, read 510,353 times
Reputation: 277

Advertisements

My humble tribute to the San people. I Tried this resumee about the subject.
By kantabriansea


The Khoisan, Khoi and San peoples are amongst the oldest human group in Africa and the world.
Thousands years ago they inhabited most of the South, East and Northeast of Africa.
Peoples with the same haplogroup than the San ( the khoi or the khoisan are the same) leave Africa more than 40.000 years ago, becoming what europeans or Asians are today.


But they were gradually displaced by other peoples in all Africa.
Today they can only be found in small areas in Africa, usually the most desolated and inhospitable ones.
Most of these areas are placed in South Africa.

They inhabited most of todays' South Africa until a few hundred years now.
They were the authentic people of South Africa, the genuine characteristically small-built San people,
The preservation of the wildlife, landscape and nature is something very important in their beliefs.


Then the bantu expansion forced them more into the South. Some of the Sam peoples learnt from the bantues how to shepherd animals and they became the Khoi the pastoralist .
Some others refused and continued their old lifestyle, the Sam the hunt gatherers.
Many years later some of these groups mingled between each others and became the khoisan.

But war continued between the khoisan peoples and the Bantu invaders.
Most of the times the bantues won territory at the expense of the Khoisan, the relations between them were not good and they didn't used to live in peace or mix between each other, with very few exceptions.
The continual war between bantu and khoi people took a great toll for the Khoi people because bantu peoples were by far superior in numbers and maybe in warfare too.

To get things worse, Dutch settlers appeared, and they called the Sam, Khoi and Khoisan people derogatory names as
"bushmen" or "hottentot", they were sometimes considered subhumans and were pushed towards the wastelands of kalahari, killed and treaed like animals.
Dutch East India Company (VOC) imported more zulu warriors from Angola and Guinea to help them in their war against the khoisan peoples.

Afrikaners and british were on war. But the people who suffered most were the khoisan, killed by the europeans and the bantu tribes.
Most of them were killed or displaced from the lands, which had been inhabited since time immemorial by their most ancient inhabitants, the KHOISAN people.

The appearance of the europeans was the definitve blow to the weak position of the khoisan people.
But we have to remember that the first colonialists to kill the Bushmen en masse were the Bantu people.

They suffered a genocide, at the hands of europeans and bantu peoples. There are reports that during the last ten years of the Dutch East India Company’s rule (1795), 2,504 “Bushmen” were killed, 669 captured and 276 colonists ( Khoikhoi) slain.

After a hundred years, the genocide slowly continued, forced to servitude.
In 1809 the so-called “Magna Carta of the Hottentots” was proclaimed that required Khoisan to register and carry a pass or risk being arrested as vagabonds.
Fortunately there were a few exceptions to this cruel situation.
For example Van der Kemp married a Khoikhoi woman, and complained to London the ways the Khoisan were enslaved.
Their charges of cruelty and murder were investigated by judges in what was called the “black circuit".
But the bantu attacks continued, in this case the Xhosa, with continued raiding and many boer khoisan were killed, these xhosa raids ended up in an open war.

During the South Africa and Imperial Wars...
Again more war, but this time zulu or Khoisan take much less causualties than the europeans, but equality brutal, for example the British killed, starved to death ot let to die by many other means 26000 boer women and children.

In 1922 the Smuts general regime destroyed the Khoi chiefdom of the Bondelswarts in southern South West Africa, the excuse was that they refused to pay a dog tax.
In 1927 Dr. Abdurahman, organized the first Non-European Conference in 1927 for Colored (APO), the ANC, and the South African Indian Congress (SAIC)... but there was no repesentation at all for the khoisan people.

In the XX century more and more bantu peoples went into South africa, in 1936 a census showed that there were a half million more Africans outside of the native areas than inside them, this also had a negative impact on the remaining khoisan.

In 1943 the ANC adopted a new constitution, but nothing regarding khoisan, Mandela chief of the MK the military wing of the ANC, was more worried about the communists, breaking up Communist Party meetings by tearing up signs and capturing the microphones, or fighting with Lembede or Sisulu to exclude whites from the League, than for the real native inhabitant of South Africa.

In this apartheid era, and obviously things didn't improved for khoisan, they were even denied from South African nationality.
The represion was great against black people (bantu) but was worst for the khoisan people, rejected by white, black or indian populations.
When the white apartheid regime was thrown, things didn't improved for them either. The ANC regime looked at the other side when khoisan people was killed, or recluded in settlements where poverty and alcohol destroyed their lives, with the ancient ways turned into are a mere memory.

And the genocide continues, in South Afrika, Botswana... pushed further into the Kalahari desert interior, new laws prohibiting more hunting, making life impossible for the few that are left.
There' s in fact a A Cultural Genocide.
04 August 2013 “A Cultural Genocide court case (EC05/2013) was lodged against Premier Helen Zille, SA President Jacob Zuma, and all the members of the South African Parliament, writes Chief Ikeraam Korana Kellerman on his website.
Cultural Genocide Case EC05/2013 by Korana KhoiSan first-nation group leader Ikeraam Korana Kellerman against current political leaders of SA | CENSORBUGBEAR.org

Actual African probantu politicians pretend that the history of the Khoi and the San people never existed, that the ancient rock paintings were made by the xosha newcomers and things like that.
... all to try to build a
prove that they have the real legitimacy to have a claim to the Cape.

Most people in this subject are wrong the Khoi-San people are or were cultural, genetical, etnical or linguistically different from the Bantu who came from Central Africa. They are a unique human group that shouldn't be lost.

Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-14-2013, 07:23 PM
 
3,063 posts, read 2,212,714 times
Reputation: 5979
Iron working gave the Bantu advantages over the Khoisan.

Also, Eruopean diseases killed many Khoisan in South Africa just like the natives in the New world, since they too had been isolated for centuries.

There is something very sad about this, even by the standards of genocides. These were the first people of humanity. Their haplotypes are A and B.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-14-2013, 07:58 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
72,633 posts, read 64,111,757 times
Reputation: 68371
Thank you for this topic! In Botswana, many San have been forcibly sedentarized, have they not? To make room for mining. That is also a form of genocide.

Nelson Mandela is 1/4 San, isn't he?

I would recommend the books of Sir Laurens Van Der Post for a moving view of San life and some history.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-15-2013, 03:04 AM
 
285 posts, read 510,353 times
Reputation: 277
Thank you guys for your comments.
The Sam people (or khoi) are the most ancient people of the world, the same people that migrated from africa more than 40000 years ago.The "parents" of all europeans and asiam people.
It's true that many Sam are forced to live sedentarily in camps, and that's killing them, as the demographic records can prove.
Nelson Mandela ancestry is from Xosha people (bantu).
Cannot tell if Mandela has Khoi ancesrtry, his facial features seems to point in that way.
But we have to be careful,.because there are clear political intentions to try "legitimate" the bantu (the actual majority in SA, who also has the power) as the authentic inhabitants of SA. You know political crap...
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-15-2013, 10:53 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
72,633 posts, read 64,111,757 times
Reputation: 68371
Quote:
Originally Posted by kantabriansea View Post
Cannot tell if Mandela has Khoi ancesrtry, his facial features seems to point in that way.
Yes, I think it's in his face. Interesting, though, that when he was younger and his face was more filled out, you couldn't see the Khoisan in him at all. But he's from an area that borders on San territory and I've read he's 1/4 Khoisan.

ok, here's more info about his Khoisan heritage, and apparently a DNA study of him revealed that his maternal DNA (his mtDNA haplogroup) is Khoisan:


Nelson Mandela is of partial Capoid/Khoisan racial origin. His tribe, the Xhosa, speak a Bantu language with some Khoi-San loan words and are said to have absorbed a substantial amount of Capoids, altering their gene pool to in effect by a Negroid-Khoisan hybrid population.

from: http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Khoisan

Last edited by Ruth4Truth; 11-15-2013 at 11:05 AM..
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-16-2013, 09:46 AM
 
285 posts, read 510,353 times
Reputation: 277
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
Yes, I think it's in his face. Interesting, though, that when he was younger and his face was more filled out, you couldn't see the Khoisan in him at all. But he's from an area that borders on San territory and I've read he's 1/4 Khoisan.

ok, here's more info about his Khoisan heritage, and apparently a DNA study of him revealed that his maternal DNA (his mtDNA haplogroup) is Khoisan:


Nelson Mandela is of partial Capoid/Khoisan racial origin. His tribe, the Xhosa, speak a Bantu language with some Khoi-San loan words and are said to have absorbed a substantial amount of Capoids, altering their gene pool to in effect by a Negroid-Khoisan hybrid population.

from: Khoisan - Metapedia

That Mandela's mtDNA is Khoisan is consistant with the history of the Nguni invasions (bantu peoples ancestors of the xhosa) that invaded khoisan territory, and you know what happened when they conquered another people... men were killed and women were captured...
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-16-2013, 11:56 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
72,633 posts, read 64,111,757 times
Reputation: 68371
Quote:
Originally Posted by kantabriansea View Post
That Mandela's mtDNA is Khoisan is consistant with the history of the Nguni invasions (bantu peoples ancestors of the xhosa) that invaded khoisan territory, and you know what happened when they conquered another people... men were killed and women were captured...
Fascinating. Thank you.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-17-2013, 04:06 AM
 
285 posts, read 510,353 times
Reputation: 277
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
Fascinating. Thank you.
You're welcome.
There are many interesting websites out there about this subject.
Most of the people in the world thinks that Southafrica was a "black" country and that the evil europeans came later to enslave the black people, that's more or less the official information... most of the people don't know anything about the Khoisan people, about the bantu expansion, think that khoisan people are just another " black" tribe, etc.

This topic was like a tabu for many years, but today is possible to find many information in the web.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khoisan

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bantu_migration

South Africa's forgotten bushmen fight for recognition | World news | The Guardian

https://www.facebook.com/pages/say-N...39954456030646

http://www.censorbugbear.org/genocid...-leaders-of-sa

What is Happening in South Africa: So who stole the land from whom?
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-17-2013, 10:39 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
72,633 posts, read 64,111,757 times
Reputation: 68371
Quote:
Originally Posted by kantabriansea View Post
You're welcome.
There are many interesting websites out there about this subject.
Most of the people in the world thinks that Southafrica was a "black" country and that the evil europeans came later to enslave the black people, that's more or less the official information... most of the people don't know anything about the Khoisan people, about the bantu expansion, think that khoisan people are just another " black" tribe, etc.

This topic was like a tabu for many years, but today is possible to find many information in the web.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khoisan

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bantu_migration

South Africa's forgotten bushmen fight for recognition | World news | The Guardian

https://www.facebook.com/pages/say-N...39954456030646

Cultural Genocide Case EC05/2013 by Korana KhoiSan first-nation group leader Ikeraam Korana Kellerman against current political leaders of SA | CENSORBUGBEAR.org

What is Happening in South Africa: So who stole the land from whom?
Well, as I hinted at earlier, Sir Laurens Vander Post wrote movingly about the Khoisan, from his personal experience. And he also discussed this history in a very touching way. And he did this at least 60 years ago. So the info's been around.

So tell me, were the San able to accomplish anything in terms of recognition and rights during the two UN Decades on Indigenous People? Are they basing their case against SA on the new Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples?
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-19-2013, 03:00 PM
 
285 posts, read 510,353 times
Reputation: 277
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
Well, as I hinted at earlier, Sir Laurens Vander Post wrote movingly about the Khoisan, from his personal experience. And he also discussed this history in a very touching way. And he did this at least 60 years ago. So the info's been around.

So tell me, were the San able to accomplish anything in terms of recognition and rights during the two UN Decades on Indigenous People? Are they basing their case against SA on the new Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples?

No, I'm afraid that the San people couldn't achieve much in term of recognition by themselves.
I seems that nobody has interest in recognize the Sam people as the authentic SA inhabitants.
On the contrary, the SA government looks like as if they were trying to hide that fact, and send a confusing message to the rest of the world. The ANC is a mainly bantu party, and I think they're not interested in show themselves as invaders the same that the white people.
Most of the people in the world thinks in very simple terms in this subject, they belive that SA was a "black" country invaded by the europeans... they know nothing about the Sam, or in the best case they think they're a black (bantú) people.
Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


 
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:
Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Africa
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top