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Old 11-12-2015, 04:25 PM
 
3,567 posts, read 2,550,911 times
Reputation: 6889

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkc2j View Post
So, the fact that a few Gauls and Brits served in the Roman legion some how validates your argument that all of Europe was some unified, cultural/linguistic group? .
You continue to completely ignore the fact that you are utterly defeated on black Egypt, everything you wrote was demonstrated to be nonsense, and you further continue to cherry pick lines that you foolishly think you can argue, ever narrowing your focus.

Look, anyone following the thread can see that you have no idea what you are talking about. None whatsoever. Please remember that this is going to exist in cyber space forever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkc2j View Post
Sorry that argument just doesn't hold up.
It wasn't my only argument, but it holds up just fine. When I am studying ancient Rome, I am studying the history of my German, Polish and British ancestors just as I am my Italian. We are all related. You have no connection to Egypt. None. It is a fantasy that you have developed for self esteem issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkc2j View Post
Ever heard of Septimius Severus? An African born in modern day Libya whom was emperor of Rome from 193 to 211 c.
We talked about how you have not really read the ancient texts that you are citing and this is yet another example. Severus' mother was a Greek and his father was from a Roman family transplanted to Africa after the fall of Carthage. If you had read the Augustin Scriptures you would know as much.

Please stop trying to teach me about history. I ACTUALLY READ THE ANCIENT TEXTS, YOU DO NOT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkc2j View Post
Would that make modern day Libyans Roman?
See above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkc2j View Post
Though most of North Africa was a Roman territory at one time that means modern day North Africa is somehow Roman too according to your logic since they too were conquered and some were soldiers in the Roman legion and one even became emperor.
Gibberish. Yes, North Africans can claim to have been part of the Roman empire, because they were. West Africans have nothing to do with Egypt. One tie is real, the other imagined.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jkc2j View Post
Sorry but your argument fails here. You might want to distort history and paint a pretty picture of a unified culturally homogenous Europe, but to anyone who's studied history knows better. Even the Romans separated themselves from the rest of Europe and showed there was a clear distinction between them and the "barbaric tribes" to the north.
Europe has a shared history, Africa does not. It is not that hard.

Now, please address that you now undrstand that Egypt was always a mixed race civilization heavy on North african, Middle Eastern and European haplotyes with a bit of sub-saharan African, mostly from the horn.

Please also address that you have never read the ancients, have no idea what they said, and badly misquoted them.

Please acknowledge that you have never read Herodotus, The Augustine writers, or Aristotle.

Please acknowledge that you understand that melanchroes does not refer to black Africans (that would be Ethiope) but to swarthy whites.

Please acknowledge that you now understand that Herodotus did not say that the Egyptians were black, but carefully distinguished between the black pharaohs and the Egyptian.

And remember, this is all is cyber space. Anyone can read though and see your incompetant understanding of the facts and dishonesty when you refuse to acknowledge points. It will not do well for your cause to lie or filibuster.

Last edited by cachibatches; 11-12-2015 at 04:37 PM..
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Old 11-12-2015, 05:06 PM
 
338 posts, read 249,106 times
Reputation: 360
Quote:
Originally Posted by cachibatches View Post
You continue to completely ignore the fact that you are utterly defeated on black Egypt, everything you wrote was demonstrated to be nonsense, and you further continue to cherry pick lines that you foolishly think you can argue, ever narrowing your focus.

Look, anyone following the thread can see that you have no idea what you are talking about. None whatsoever. Please remember that this is going to exist in cyber space forever.



It wasn't my only argument, but it holds up just fine. When I am studying ancient Rome, I am studying the history of my German, Polish and British ancestors just as I am my Italian. We are all related. You have no connection to Egypt. None. It is a fantasy that you have developed for self esteem issues.



We talked about how you have not really read the ancient texts that you are citing and this is yet another example. Severus' mother was a Greek and his father was from a Roman family transplanted to Africa after the fall of Carthage. If you had read the Augustin Scriptures you would know as much.

Please stop trying to teach me about history. I ACTUALLY READ THE ANCIENT TEXTS, YOU DO NOT.



See above.



Gibberish. Yes, North Africans can claim to have been part of the Roman empire, because they were. West Africans have nothing to do with Egypt. One tie is real, the other imagined.




Europe has a shared history, Africa does not. It is not that hard.

Now, please address that you now undrstand that Egypt was always a mixed race civilization heavy on North african, Middle Eastern and European haplotyes with a bit of sub-saharan African, mostly from the horn.

Please also address that you have never read the ancients, have no idea what they said, and badly misquoted them.

Please acknowledge that you have never read Herodotus, The Augustine writers, or Aristotle.

Please acknowledge that you understand that melanchroes does not refer to black Africans (that would be Ethiope) but to swarthy whites.

Please acknowledge that you now understand that Herodotus did not say that the Egyptians were black, but carefully distinguished between the black pharaohs and the Egyptian.

And remember, this is all is cyber space. Anyone can read though and see your incompetant understanding of the facts and dishonesty when you refuse to acknowledge points. It will not do well for your cause to lie or filibuster.
What the heck? Utterly defeated? You proved nothing with your above post but how ignorant you are of history. All the name calling and berating means nothing to me. I've proven my point, and yes it's all for cyberspace to see lol. It seems that if an argument doesn't go your way you like to name call and discredit people simply because there's a difference of opinion. Shows a lack of maturity and honestly doesn't help your point. Please point out any where in my past posts here where I've lied or misquoted anything. Thanks.
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Old 11-12-2015, 05:21 PM
 
3,567 posts, read 2,550,911 times
Reputation: 6889
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkc2j View Post
What the heck? Utterly defeated? You proved nothing with your above post but how ignorant you are of history. All the name calling and berating means nothing to me. I've proven my point, and yes it's all for cyberspace to see lol. It seems that if an argument doesn't go your way you like to name call and discredit people simply because there's a difference of opinion. Shows a lack of maturity and honestly doesn't help your point.
We have clearly demonstrated that you have not read the ancient texts that you are attempting to cite, you refuse to read scientific studies posted, and cling dearly to self esteem fantasies. And it is all in cyber space forever for all to see.

Mitochondrial DNA Sequence Diversity in a Sedentary Population from Egypt
A. Stevanovitch
Mitochondrial DNA Sequence Diversity in a Sedentary Population from Egypt - Stevanovitch - 2004 - Annals of Human Genetics - Wiley Online Library
Mitochondrial genetic data from North Africa are documented by two groups of populations: one composed of populations of the Nile Valley, and the other by populations of the Maghreb. The Nile Valley has been shown to be a migration corridor with populations connected by gene flow (Krings et al. 1999), and phylogeographical analysis of mitochondrial lineages of populations from the Maghreb suggests that modern humans appeared from the Near East following at least two migrations around 50 000 years and 10 000 years ago. A possible migration from Europe may also have occurred during the Neolithic period (Macaulay et al. 1999).


Population history of north Africa: evidence from classical genetic markers.-
Bosch
Population history of North Africa: Evidence from classical genetic markers
After an intensive bibliographic search, we compiled all the available data on allele frequencies for classical genetic polymorphisms referring to North African populations and synthesized the data in an attempt to reconstruct the populations' demographic history using two complementary methods: (1) principal components analysis and (2) genetic distances represented by neighbor-joining trees. In both analyses the main feature of the genetic landscape in northern Africa is an east-west pattern of variation pointing to the differentiation between the Berber and Arab population groups of the northwest and the populations of Libya and Egypt. Moreover, Libya and Egypt show the smallest genetic distances with the European populations, including the Iberian Peninsula. The most plausible interpretation of these results is that, although demic diffusion during the Neolithic could explain the genetic similarity between northeast Africa and Europe by a parallel process of gene flow from the Near East, a Mesolithic (or older) differentiation of the populations in the northwestern regions with later limited gene flow is needed to understand the genetic picture. The most isolated groups (Mauritanians, Tuaregs, and south Algerian Berbers) were the most differentiated and, although no clear structure can be discerned among the different Arab- and Berber-speaking groups, Arab speakers as a whole are closer to Egyptians and Libyans. By contrast, the genetic contribution of sub-Saharan Africa appears to be small.


Near eastern neolithic genetic input in a small oasis of the Egyptian Western Desert.
M Kujanova 2009
Near eastern neolithic genetic input in a small oasis of the Egyptian Western Desert. - PubMed - NCBI
Notwithstanding signs of expected genetic drift, we still found clear genetic evidence of a strong Near Eastern input that can be dated into the Neolithic. This is revealed by high frequencies and high internal variability of several mtDNA lineages from haplogroup T. The whole genome sequencing strategy and molecular dating allowed us to detect the accumulation of local mtDNA diversity to 5,138 +/- 3,633 YBP. Similarly, theY-chromosome gene pool reveals high frequencies of the Near Eastern J1


The Levant versus the Horn of Africa: Evidence for Bidirectional Corridors of Human Migrations
JR LUIS
The Levant versus the Horn of Africa: Evidence for Bidirectional Corridors of Human Migrations
"Paleoanthropological evidence indicates that both the Levantine corridor and the Horn of Africa served, repeatedly, as migratory corridors between Africa and Eurasia. We have begun investigating the roles of these passageways in bidirectional migrations of anatomically modern humans, by analyzing 45 informative biallelic markers as well as 10 microsatellite loci on the nonrecombining region of the Y chromosome (NRY) in 121 and 147 extant males from Oman and northern Egypt, respectively. The present study uncovers three important points concerning these demic movements: (1)The E3b1-M78 and E3b3-M123 lineages, as well as the R1*-M173 lineages, mark gene flow between Egypt and the Levant during the Upper Paleolithic and Mesolithic. (2) In contrast, the Horn of Africa appears to be of minor importance in the human migratory movements between Africa and Eurasia represented by these chromosomes, an observation based on the frequency distributions of E3b*-M35 (no known downstream mutations) and M173. (3) The areal diffusion patterns of G-M201, J-12f2, the derivative M173 haplogroups, and M2 suggest more recent genetic associations between the Middle East and Africa, involving the Levantine corridor and/or Arab slave routes. Affinities to African groups were also evaluated by determining the NRY haplogroup composition in 434 samples from seven sub-Saharan African populations. Oman and Egypt’s NRY frequency distributions appear to be much more similar to those of the Middle East than to any sub-Saharan African population, suggesting a much larger Eurasian genetic component"


"Synthetic maps of Africa". The History and Geography of Human Genes.
Cavalli-Sforza.
http://books.google.com/books?id=Frw...cover#v=onepag e&q&f=false
(NOTE: LINK WILL NOT TAKE YOU TO THE EXACT PAGES)
The gradient is clearly rooted in the relatively ancient presence of Caucasoids in a Northern strip along the Mediterranean and in additions from West Asia, which are visible in the second and third components....the C gene shows a clear North-South gradient, being frequent amongst Caucasoids and almost absent in sub-Sahara Africa. THERE ARE PEAKS IN EGYPT AND IN NORTHWESTERN AFRICA


Genomic Ancestry of North Africans Supports Back-to-Africa Migrations
Henn
PLOS Genetics: Genomic Ancestry of North Africans Supports Back-to-Africa Migrations
We identify a gradient of likely autochthonous Maghrebi ancestry that increases from east to west across northern Africa; this ancestry is likely derived from “back-to-Africa” gene flow more than 12,000 years ago (ya), prior to the Holocene. The indigenous North African ancestry is more frequent in populations with historical Berber ethnicity. In most North African populations we also see substantial shared ancestry with the Near East, and to a lesser extent sub-Saharan Africa and Europe.


Y-chromosome analysis in Egypt suggests a genetic regional continuity in northeastern Africa
Manni
Y-chromosome analysis in Egypt suggests a genetic regional continuity in Northeastern Africa. - PubMed - NCBI
"In conclusion, our analyses have identified a genetic regional continuity between the northeastern part of Africa (Egypt), the Middle East, and southern Europe. In agreement with the ethnohistorical connections between NE Africa and the Middle East, the genetic data confirm that Egypt, occupying an intermediate position along these routes, has been an important contact zone between the three continents."


The emerging tree of West Eurasian mtDNAs: a synthesis of control-region sequences and RFLPs.
Macaulay
The emerging tree of West Eurasian mtDNAs: a synthesis of control-region sequences and RFLPs.
We show that the main indigenous North African cluster is a sister group to the most ancient cluster of European mtDNAs, from which it diverged approximately 50,000 years ago.


North African Populations Carry the Signature of Admixture with Neandertals
Federico Sánchez-Quinto
PLOS ONE: North African Populations Carry the Signature of Admixture with Neandertals
The results of the f4 ancestry ratio test (Table 2 and Table S1) show that North African populations vary in the percentage of Neandertal inferred admixture, primarily depending on the amount of European or Near Eastern ancestry they present (Table 1). Populations like North Morocco and Egypt, with the highest European and Near Eastern component (~40%), have also the highest amount of Neandertal ancestry (~60–70%)....Furthermore, the Neandertal's genetic signal is higher in populations with a local, pre-Neolithic North African ancestry. Therefore, the detected ancient admixture is not due to recent Near Eastern or European migrations.


Genetic variation of 15 autosomal STR loci in Upper (Southern) Egyptians,
Omran et al 2008.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...57155469,d.eW0
Local comparisons between Upper Egyptians were carried out with other ethnic groups in Egypt, based on frequency and molecular data. No differences were observed in comparison with a general Caucasian population from Cairo in any of the nine loci compared or with Egyptian Christians from Cairo…Multi-dimensional scaling (MDS) based on pair-wise FST genetic distances of Upper Egyptian and other diverse global populations. OCE, Oceanian; ME, Middle Eastern; NAF, North African; EAS, East Asian; SSA, sub-Saharan African; UEGY, Upper Egyptian; SAS, South Asian; EUR, European. The figure shows that Oceania and American populations are very distant from Upper Egyptians (marked by a grey triangle) and other populations. The Upper Egyptian population is closer to the Middle Eastern, North African, South Asian and European populations than others.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wz50_nx8UDg


Who were the ancient Egyptians? Dental affinities among Neolithic through postdynastic peoples
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16331657
JD IRISH 2006
Qualitative and quantitative methods are employed to describe and compare up to 36 dental morphological variants in 15 Neolithic through Roman-period Egyptian samples. Trait frequencies are determined, and phenetic affinities are calculated using the mean measure of divergence and Mahalanobis D2 statistics for discrete traits; the most important traits in generating this intersample variation are identified with correspondence analysis. Assuming that the samples are representative of the populations from which they derive, and that phenetic similarity provides an estimate of genetic relatedness, these affinities are suggestive of overall population continuity. That is, other than a few outliers exhibiting extreme frequencies of nine influential traits, the dental samples appear to be largely homogenous and can be characterized as having morphologically simple, mass-reduced teeth. These findings are contrasted with those resulting from previous skeletal and other studies, and are used to appraise the viability of five Egyptian peopling scenarios. Specifically, affinities among the 15 time-successive samples suggest that: 1) there may be a connection between Neolithic and subsequent predynastic Egyptians, 2) predynastic Badarian and Naqada peoples may be closely related, 3) the dynastic period is likely an indigenous continuation of the Naqada culture, 4) there is support for overall biological uniformity through the dynastic period, and 5) this uniformity may continue into postdynastic times.

Research on ancient DNA in the Near East
Mateusz Baca
Research on ancient DNA in the Near East | Martyna Molak - Academia.edu
To obtain the frequencies of these mtDNA types, amplification of the HVRI region and three RFLP markers was conducted. The authors succeeded in analysing RFLP markers in 34 samples and HVRI sequences in 18 of the samples. Both populations, ancient and contemporary, fit the north-south clinal distribution of “southern” and “northern” mtDNA types (Graver et al. 2001). However, significant differences were found between these populations. Based on an increased frequency of HpaI 3592 (+) haplotypes in the contemporary Dakhlehian population, the authors suggested that, since Roman times, gene flow from the Sub-Saharan region has affected gene frequencies of individuals from the oasis.


mtDNA analysis in ancient Nubians supports the existence of gene flow between sub-Sahara and North Africa in the Nile valley
C. Fox, 1997
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9158841
The Hpal (np3,592) mitochondrial DNA marker is a selectively neutral mutation that is very common in sub-Saharan Africa and is almost absent in North African and European populations. It has been screened in a Meroitic sample from ancient Nubia through PCR amplification and posterior enzyme digestion, to evaluate the sub-Saharan genetic influences in this population. From 29 individuals analysed, only 15 yield positive amplifications, four of them (26·7%) displaying the sub-Saharan African marker. Hpa I (np3,592) marker is present in the sub-Saharan populations at a frequency of 68·7 on average. Thus, the frequency of genes from this area in the Merotic Nubian population can be estimated at around 39% (with a confidence interval from 22% to 55%). The frequency obtained fits in a south-north decreasing gradient of Hpa I (np3,592) along the African continent. Results suggest that morphological changes observed historically in the Nubian populations are more likely to be due to the existence of south-north gene flow through the Nile Valley than to in-situ evolution


Mitochondrial DNA Research in the Dakhleh Oasis, Egypt
Alison M. Graver
Molecular genetic research is being conducted as part of the Dakhleh Oasis Project (DOP), an international and multi-disciplinary research initiative in the western desert of Egypt. Mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) is being analyzed from both ancient human skeletal remains associated with the Roman period town of Kellis (100 to 450 AD) and contemporary inhabitants of the Dakhleh Oasis. The primary objectives of this research are to derive paleogenetic information about the inhabitants of ancient Kellis, and to develop a picture of change over time within this desert oasis. Preliminary mtDNA restriction site data and control region sequence variability suggest significant genetic differences exist between the ancient and modern oasis populations

mtDNA Analysis of Nile River Valley Populations: A Genetic Corridor or a Barrier to Migration?
Krings
mtDNA analysis of Nile River Valley populations: A genetic corridor or a barrier to migration? - PubMed - NCBI
To assess the extent to which the Nile River Valley has been a corridor for human migrations between Egypt and sub-Saharan Africa, we analyzed mtDNA variation in 224 individuals from various locations along the river. Sequences of the first hypervariable segment (HV1) of the mtDNA control region and a polymorphic HpaI site at position 3592 allowed us to designate each mtDNA as being of “northern” or “southern” affiliation. Proportions of northern and southern mtDNA differed significantly between Egypt, Nubia, and the southern Sudan. At slowly evolving sites within HV1, northern-mtDNA diversity was highest in Egypt and lowest in the southern Sudan, and southern-mtDNA diversity was highest in the southern Sudan and lowest in Egypt, indicating that migrations had occurred bidirectionally along the Nile River Valley. Egypt and Nubia have low and similar amounts of divergence for both mtDNA types, which is consistent with historical evidence for long-term interactions between Egypt and Nubia. Spatial autocorrelation analysis demonstrates a smooth gradient of decreasing genetic similarity of mtDNA types as geographic distance between sampling localities increases, strongly suggesting gene flow along the Nile, with no evident barriers. We conclude that these migrations probably occurred within the past few hundred to few thousand years and that the migration from north to south was either earlier or lesser in the extent of gene flow than the migration from south to north.


The Iberomaurusian enigma: north African progenitor or dead end?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11006048
(IRISH 2000
Hierakonpolis inhabitants appear to be uniform in cranial size and form and 2) they show some resemblance to other post-Pleistocene populations of North Africa, as well as Europe and West Asia. They appear distinct from post-Pleistocene sub-Saharan Africans.
Dental phenetic homogeneity was present amongst the Hierakonpolis inhabitants, and they exhibit dental traits that ally them with other post- Pleistocene populations in grater North Africa. Prior work shows that North Africans have morphologically simple, mass reduced teeth. This dental pattern was shown to be ubiquitous amongst samples, regardless of distance- from the Canary Islands to Egypt and Nubia- or time, from 8000 year old Capsians to recent Berbers in Western North Africa. This pattern, termed the "North African Dental Trait Complex," includes high frequencies of several traits such as an interruption groove on U12, M3 agenesis, and rocker jaw, plus a low occurrence of LM2 Y-5 groove pattern. All of these features are also present in Europeans and West Asians to some degree, but are uncommon in Sub-Saharan peoples. Crainiometric indicators also appear to support these results, and European-like discreet traits such as alveolar, orthognathism, dolichocephaly, rhomboid orbits, narrow nasal aperture, and nasal sill are prevalent...They appear distinct from post-Pleistocene Sub-Saharan Africans. (Irish 2000)

www(The biomedical scientists November 2003).
.cs.oswego.edu/~schofield/news/nefertiti.pdf‎
In the case of the skull believed by a number of experts to be Nefertiti, digital X-rays gave Evison and Schofield an image of the skull inside of the mummy...this particular skull could be classified as Indo-European.

Clines and clusters versus “Race:” a test in ancient Egypt and the case of a death on the Nile
Clines and clusters versus
(Brace, 1993)
"The Predynastic of Upper Egypt and the Late Dynastic of Lower Egypt are more closely related to each other than to any other population. As a whole, they show ties with the European Neolithic, North Africa, modern Europe, and, more remotely, India, but not at all with sub-Saharan Africa, eastern Asia... ...Oceania, or the New World. Adjacent people in the Nile valley show similarities in trivial traits in an unbroken series from the delta in the north southward through Nubia and all the way to Somalia at the equator. At the same time, the gradient in skin color and body proportions suggests long-term adaptive response to selective forces appropriate to the latitude where they occur...
...We conclude that the Egyptians have been in place since back in the Pleistocene and have been largely unaffected by either invasions or migrations. As others have noted, Egyptians are Egyptians, and they were so in the past as well."

The questionable contribution of the Neolithic and the Bronze Age to European craniofacial form
The questionable contribution of the Neolithic and the Bronze Age to European craniofacial form
BRACE
The assessment of prehistoric and recent human craniofacial dimensions supports the picture documented by genetics that the extension of Neolithic agriculture from the Near East westward to Europe and across North Africa was accomplished by a process of demic diffusion (11–15)....

....When the samples used in Fig. 1 are compared by the use of canonical variate plots as in Fig. 2, the seperateness of the Niger-Congo speakers is again quite clear. Interestingly enough, however, the small Natufian sample falls between the Niger-Congo group and the other samples used. Fig 2 shows the plot produced by the first two canonical variates, but the same thing happens when canonical variates 1 and 3 (not shown here) are used. This placement suggests that there may have been a Sub-Saharan African element in the make-up of the Natufians (the putative ancestors of the subsequent Neolithic), although in this particular test there is no such evident presence in the North African or Egyptian samples. As shown in Fig. 1, the Somalis and the Egyptian Bronze Age sample from Naquada may also have a hint of a Sub-Saharan African component. That was not borne out in the canonical variate plot (Fig 2.), and there was no evidence of such an involvement in the Algerian Neolithic (Gambetta) sample.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZssWb4MmGM
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Old 11-12-2015, 05:27 PM
 
338 posts, read 249,106 times
Reputation: 360
88th
Quote:
Originally Posted by cachibatches View Post
We have clearly demonstrated that you have not read the ancient texts that you are attempting to cite, you refuse to read scientific studies posted, and cling dearly to self esteem fantasies. And it is all in cyber space forever for all to see.

Mitochondrial DNA Sequence Diversity in a Sedentary Population from Egypt
A. Stevanovitch
Mitochondrial DNA Sequence Diversity in a Sedentary Population from Egypt - Stevanovitch - 2004 - Annals of Human Genetics - Wiley Online Library
Mitochondrial genetic data from North Africa are documented by two groups of populations: one composed of populations of the Nile Valley, and the other by populations of the Maghreb. The Nile Valley has been shown to be a migration corridor with populations connected by gene flow (Krings et al. 1999), and phylogeographical analysis of mitochondrial lineages of populations from the Maghreb suggests that modern humans appeared from the Near East following at least two migrations around 50 000 years and 10 000 years ago. A possible migration from Europe may also have occurred during the Neolithic period (Macaulay et al. 1999).


Population history of north Africa: evidence from classical genetic markers.-
Bosch
Population history of North Africa: Evidence from classical genetic markers
After an intensive bibliographic search, we compiled all the available data on allele frequencies for classical genetic polymorphisms referring to North African populations and synthesized the data in an attempt to reconstruct the populations' demographic history using two complementary methods: (1) principal components analysis and (2) genetic distances represented by neighbor-joining trees. In both analyses the main feature of the genetic landscape in northern Africa is an east-west pattern of variation pointing to the differentiation between the Berber and Arab population groups of the northwest and the populations of Libya and Egypt. Moreover, Libya and Egypt show the smallest genetic distances with the European populations, including the Iberian Peninsula. The most plausible interpretation of these results is that, although demic diffusion during the Neolithic could explain the genetic similarity between northeast Africa and Europe by a parallel process of gene flow from the Near East, a Mesolithic (or older) differentiation of the populations in the northwestern regions with later limited gene flow is needed to understand the genetic picture. The most isolated groups (Mauritanians, Tuaregs, and south Algerian Berbers) were the most differentiated and, although no clear structure can be discerned among the different Arab- and Berber-speaking groups, Arab speakers as a whole are closer to Egyptians and Libyans. By contrast, the genetic contribution of sub-Saharan Africa appears to be small.


Near eastern neolithic genetic input in a small oasis of the Egyptian Western Desert.
M Kujanova 2009
Near eastern neolithic genetic input in a small oasis of the Egyptian Western Desert. - PubMed - NCBI
Notwithstanding signs of expected genetic drift, we still found clear genetic evidence of a strong Near Eastern input that can be dated into the Neolithic. This is revealed by high frequencies and high internal variability of several mtDNA lineages from haplogroup T. The whole genome sequencing strategy and molecular dating allowed us to detect the accumulation of local mtDNA diversity to 5,138 +/- 3,633 YBP. Similarly, theY-chromosome gene pool reveals high frequencies of the Near Eastern J1


The Levant versus the Horn of Africa: Evidence for Bidirectional Corridors of Human Migrations
JR LUIS
The Levant versus the Horn of Africa: Evidence for Bidirectional Corridors of Human Migrations
"Paleoanthropological evidence indicates that both the Levantine corridor and the Horn of Africa served, repeatedly, as migratory corridors between Africa and Eurasia. We have begun investigating the roles of these passageways in bidirectional migrations of anatomically modern humans, by analyzing 45 informative biallelic markers as well as 10 microsatellite loci on the nonrecombining region of the Y chromosome (NRY) in 121 and 147 extant males from Oman and northern Egypt, respectively. The present study uncovers three important points concerning these demic movements: (1)The E3b1-M78 and E3b3-M123 lineages, as well as the R1*-M173 lineages, mark gene flow between Egypt and the Levant during the Upper Paleolithic and Mesolithic. (2) In contrast, the Horn of Africa appears to be of minor importance in the human migratory movements between Africa and Eurasia represented by these chromosomes, an observation based on the frequency distributions of E3b*-M35 (no known downstream mutations) and M173. (3) The areal diffusion patterns of G-M201, J-12f2, the derivative M173 haplogroups, and M2 suggest more recent genetic associations between the Middle East and Africa, involving the Levantine corridor and/or Arab slave routes. Affinities to African groups were also evaluated by determining the NRY haplogroup composition in 434 samples from seven sub-Saharan African populations. Oman and Egypt’s NRY frequency distributions appear to be much more similar to those of the Middle East than to any sub-Saharan African population, suggesting a much larger Eurasian genetic component"


"Synthetic maps of Africa". The History and Geography of Human Genes.
Cavalli-Sforza.
http://books.google.com/books?id=Frw...cover#v=onepag e&q&f=false
(NOTE: LINK WILL NOT TAKE YOU TO THE EXACT PAGES)
The gradient is clearly rooted in the relatively ancient presence of Caucasoids in a Northern strip along the Mediterranean and in additions from West Asia, which are visible in the second and third components....the C gene shows a clear North-South gradient, being frequent amongst Caucasoids and almost absent in sub-Sahara Africa. THERE ARE PEAKS IN EGYPT AND IN NORTHWESTERN AFRICA


Genomic Ancestry of North Africans Supports Back-to-Africa Migrations
Henn
PLOS Genetics: Genomic Ancestry of North Africans Supports Back-to-Africa Migrations
We identify a gradient of likely autochthonous Maghrebi ancestry that increases from east to west across northern Africa; this ancestry is likely derived from “back-to-Africa” gene flow more than 12,000 years ago (ya), prior to the Holocene. The indigenous North African ancestry is more frequent in populations with historical Berber ethnicity. In most North African populations we also see substantial shared ancestry with the Near East, and to a lesser extent sub-Saharan Africa and Europe.


Y-chromosome analysis in Egypt suggests a genetic regional continuity in northeastern Africa
Manni
Y-chromosome analysis in Egypt suggests a genetic regional continuity in Northeastern Africa. - PubMed - NCBI
"In conclusion, our analyses have identified a genetic regional continuity between the northeastern part of Africa (Egypt), the Middle East, and southern Europe. In agreement with the ethnohistorical connections between NE Africa and the Middle East, the genetic data confirm that Egypt, occupying an intermediate position along these routes, has been an important contact zone between the three continents."


The emerging tree of West Eurasian mtDNAs: a synthesis of control-region sequences and RFLPs.
Macaulay
The emerging tree of West Eurasian mtDNAs: a synthesis of control-region sequences and RFLPs.
We show that the main indigenous North African cluster is a sister group to the most ancient cluster of European mtDNAs, from which it diverged approximately 50,000 years ago.


North African Populations Carry the Signature of Admixture with Neandertals
Federico Sánchez-Quinto
PLOS ONE: North African Populations Carry the Signature of Admixture with Neandertals
The results of the f4 ancestry ratio test (Table 2 and Table S1) show that North African populations vary in the percentage of Neandertal inferred admixture, primarily depending on the amount of European or Near Eastern ancestry they present (Table 1). Populations like North Morocco and Egypt, with the highest European and Near Eastern component (~40%), have also the highest amount of Neandertal ancestry (~60–70%)....Furthermore, the Neandertal's genetic signal is higher in populations with a local, pre-Neolithic North African ancestry. Therefore, the detected ancient admixture is not due to recent Near Eastern or European migrations.


Genetic variation of 15 autosomal STR loci in Upper (Southern) Egyptians,
Omran et al 2008.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...57155469,d.eW0
Local comparisons between Upper Egyptians were carried out with other ethnic groups in Egypt, based on frequency and molecular data. No differences were observed in comparison with a general Caucasian population from Cairo in any of the nine loci compared or with Egyptian Christians from Cairo…Multi-dimensional scaling (MDS) based on pair-wise FST genetic distances of Upper Egyptian and other diverse global populations. OCE, Oceanian; ME, Middle Eastern; NAF, North African; EAS, East Asian; SSA, sub-Saharan African; UEGY, Upper Egyptian; SAS, South Asian; EUR, European. The figure shows that Oceania and American populations are very distant from Upper Egyptians (marked by a grey triangle) and other populations. The Upper Egyptian population is closer to the Middle Eastern, North African, South Asian and European populations than others.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wz50_nx8UDg


Who were the ancient Egyptians? Dental affinities among Neolithic through postdynastic peoples
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16331657
JD IRISH 2006
Qualitative and quantitative methods are employed to describe and compare up to 36 dental morphological variants in 15 Neolithic through Roman-period Egyptian samples. Trait frequencies are determined, and phenetic affinities are calculated using the mean measure of divergence and Mahalanobis D2 statistics for discrete traits; the most important traits in generating this intersample variation are identified with correspondence analysis. Assuming that the samples are representative of the populations from which they derive, and that phenetic similarity provides an estimate of genetic relatedness, these affinities are suggestive of overall population continuity. That is, other than a few outliers exhibiting extreme frequencies of nine influential traits, the dental samples appear to be largely homogenous and can be characterized as having morphologically simple, mass-reduced teeth. These findings are contrasted with those resulting from previous skeletal and other studies, and are used to appraise the viability of five Egyptian peopling scenarios. Specifically, affinities among the 15 time-successive samples suggest that: 1) there may be a connection between Neolithic and subsequent predynastic Egyptians, 2) predynastic Badarian and Naqada peoples may be closely related, 3) the dynastic period is likely an indigenous continuation of the Naqada culture, 4) there is support for overall biological uniformity through the dynastic period, and 5) this uniformity may continue into postdynastic times.

Research on ancient DNA in the Near East
Mateusz Baca
Research on ancient DNA in the Near East | Martyna Molak - Academia.edu
To obtain the frequencies of these mtDNA types, amplification of the HVRI region and three RFLP markers was conducted. The authors succeeded in analysing RFLP markers in 34 samples and HVRI sequences in 18 of the samples. Both populations, ancient and contemporary, fit the north-south clinal distribution of “southern” and “northern” mtDNA types (Graver et al. 2001). However, significant differences were found between these populations. Based on an increased frequency of HpaI 3592 (+) haplotypes in the contemporary Dakhlehian population, the authors suggested that, since Roman times, gene flow from the Sub-Saharan region has affected gene frequencies of individuals from the oasis.


mtDNA analysis in ancient Nubians supports the existence of gene flow between sub-Sahara and North Africa in the Nile valley
C. Fox, 1997
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9158841
The Hpal (np3,592) mitochondrial DNA marker is a selectively neutral mutation that is very common in sub-Saharan Africa and is almost absent in North African and European populations. It has been screened in a Meroitic sample from ancient Nubia through PCR amplification and posterior enzyme digestion, to evaluate the sub-Saharan genetic influences in this population. From 29 individuals analysed, only 15 yield positive amplifications, four of them (26·7%) displaying the sub-Saharan African marker. Hpa I (np3,592) marker is present in the sub-Saharan populations at a frequency of 68·7 on average. Thus, the frequency of genes from this area in the Merotic Nubian population can be estimated at around 39% (with a confidence interval from 22% to 55%). The frequency obtained fits in a south-north decreasing gradient of Hpa I (np3,592) along the African continent. Results suggest that morphological changes observed historically in the Nubian populations are more likely to be due to the existence of south-north gene flow through the Nile Valley than to in-situ evolution


Mitochondrial DNA Research in the Dakhleh Oasis, Egypt
Alison M. Graver
Molecular genetic research is being conducted as part of the Dakhleh Oasis Project (DOP), an international and multi-disciplinary research initiative in the western desert of Egypt. Mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) is being analyzed from both ancient human skeletal remains associated with the Roman period town of Kellis (100 to 450 AD) and contemporary inhabitants of the Dakhleh Oasis. The primary objectives of this research are to derive paleogenetic information about the inhabitants of ancient Kellis, and to develop a picture of change over time within this desert oasis. Preliminary mtDNA restriction site data and control region sequence variability suggest significant genetic differences exist between the ancient and modern oasis populations

mtDNA Analysis of Nile River Valley Populations: A Genetic Corridor or a Barrier to Migration?
Krings
mtDNA analysis of Nile River Valley populations: A genetic corridor or a barrier to migration? - PubMed - NCBI
To assess the extent to which the Nile River Valley has been a corridor for human migrations between Egypt and sub-Saharan Africa, we analyzed mtDNA variation in 224 individuals from various locations along the river. Sequences of the first hypervariable segment (HV1) of the mtDNA control region and a polymorphic HpaI site at position 3592 allowed us to designate each mtDNA as being of “northern” or “southern” affiliation. Proportions of northern and southern mtDNA differed significantly between Egypt, Nubia, and the southern Sudan. At slowly evolving sites within HV1, northern-mtDNA diversity was highest in Egypt and lowest in the southern Sudan, and southern-mtDNA diversity was highest in the southern Sudan and lowest in Egypt, indicating that migrations had occurred bidirectionally along the Nile River Valley. Egypt and Nubia have low and similar amounts of divergence for both mtDNA types, which is consistent with historical evidence for long-term interactions between Egypt and Nubia. Spatial autocorrelation analysis demonstrates a smooth gradient of decreasing genetic similarity of mtDNA types as geographic distance between sampling localities increases, strongly suggesting gene flow along the Nile, with no evident barriers. We conclude that these migrations probably occurred within the past few hundred to few thousand years and that the migration from north to south was either earlier or lesser in the extent of gene flow than the migration from south to north.


The Iberomaurusian enigma: north African progenitor or dead end?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11006048
(IRISH 2000
Hierakonpolis inhabitants appear to be uniform in cranial size and form and 2) they show some resemblance to other post-Pleistocene populations of North Africa, as well as Europe and West Asia. They appear distinct from post-Pleistocene sub-Saharan Africans.
Dental phenetic homogeneity was present amongst the Hierakonpolis inhabitants, and they exhibit dental traits that ally them with other post- Pleistocene populations in grater North Africa. Prior work shows that North Africans have morphologically simple, mass reduced teeth. This dental pattern was shown to be ubiquitous amongst samples, regardless of distance- from the Canary Islands to Egypt and Nubia- or time, from 8000 year old Capsians to recent Berbers in Western North Africa. This pattern, termed the "North African Dental Trait Complex," includes high frequencies of several traits such as an interruption groove on U12, M3 agenesis, and rocker jaw, plus a low occurrence of LM2 Y-5 groove pattern. All of these features are also present in Europeans and West Asians to some degree, but are uncommon in Sub-Saharan peoples. Crainiometric indicators also appear to support these results, and European-like discreet traits such as alveolar, orthognathism, dolichocephaly, rhomboid orbits, narrow nasal aperture, and nasal sill are prevalent...They appear distinct from post-Pleistocene Sub-Saharan Africans. (Irish 2000)

www(The biomedical scientists November 2003).
.cs.oswego.edu/~schofield/news/nefertiti.pdf‎
In the case of the skull believed by a number of experts to be Nefertiti, digital X-rays gave Evison and Schofield an image of the skull inside of the mummy...this particular skull could be classified as Indo-European.

Clines and clusters versus “Race:” a test in ancient Egypt and the case of a death on the Nile
Clines and clusters versus
(Brace, 1993)
"The Predynastic of Upper Egypt and the Late Dynastic of Lower Egypt are more closely related to each other than to any other population. As a whole, they show ties with the European Neolithic, North Africa, modern Europe, and, more remotely, India, but not at all with sub-Saharan Africa, eastern Asia... ...Oceania, or the New World. Adjacent people in the Nile valley show similarities in trivial traits in an unbroken series from the delta in the north southward through Nubia and all the way to Somalia at the equator. At the same time, the gradient in skin color and body proportions suggests long-term adaptive response to selective forces appropriate to the latitude where they occur...
...We conclude that the Egyptians have been in place since back in the Pleistocene and have been largely unaffected by either invasions or migrations. As others have noted, Egyptians are Egyptians, and they were so in the past as well."

The questionable contribution of the Neolithic and the Bronze Age to European craniofacial form
The questionable contribution of the Neolithic and the Bronze Age to European craniofacial form
BRACE
The assessment of prehistoric and recent human craniofacial dimensions supports the picture documented by genetics that the extension of Neolithic agriculture from the Near East westward to Europe and across North Africa was accomplished by a process of demic diffusion (11–15)....

....When the samples used in Fig. 1 are compared by the use of canonical variate plots as in Fig. 2, the seperateness of the Niger-Congo speakers is again quite clear. Interestingly enough, however, the small Natufian sample falls between the Niger-Congo group and the other samples used. Fig 2 shows the plot produced by the first two canonical variates, but the same thing happens when canonical variates 1 and 3 (not shown here) are used. This placement suggests that there may have been a Sub-Saharan African element in the make-up of the Natufians (the putative ancestors of the subsequent Neolithic), although in this particular test there is no such evident presence in the North African or Egyptian samples. As shown in Fig. 1, the Somalis and the Egyptian Bronze Age sample from Naquada may also have a hint of a Sub-Saharan African component. That was not borne out in the canonical variate plot (Fig 2.), and there was no evidence of such an involvement in the Algerian Neolithic (Gambetta) sample.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZssWb4MmGM

Done debating with you. You made claims about me to which were false, then when asked for proof you post more of the same tired diatribe to prove your point? I'm officially done bro lol.
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Old 11-12-2015, 05:52 PM
AFP
 
6,909 posts, read 4,281,008 times
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@cachibatches this is a really well done study I hadn't seen this one yet thanks for posting it. What I also find interesting is that the migration that occurred from the middle east to Ethiopia and then spread to the rest of sub-Saharan Africa 3,000 YBP isn't detected in the Egyptian population.

http://journals.plos.org/plosgenetic...l.pgen.1002397
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Old 11-12-2015, 06:16 PM
 
3,567 posts, read 2,550,911 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AFP View Post
@cachibatches this is a really well done study I hadn't seen this one yet thanks for posting it. What I also find interesting is that the migration that occurred from the middle east to Ethiopia and then spread to the rest of sub-Saharan Africa 3,000 YBP isn't detected in the Egyptian population.

PLOS Genetics: Genomic Ancestry of North Africans Supports Back-to-Africa Migrations
Thanks. Will give it a thorough read tomorrow.

The thing is, several migrations have been detected since at least the neolithic, which is exactly what we would expect from an area that is a cooridor of three continents. The Afro-thieves try to spin a false narrative that that there was an historical time when Africa was all black. The reality is that people have been back migrting for tens of thousands of years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkc2j View Post
88th


Done debating with you. You made claims about me to which were false, then when asked for proof you post more of the same tired diatribe to prove your point? I'm officially done bro lol.
In other words, you now know that you are thoroughly beaten on every point.

Every time I see this silly subject I am going to post the truth backed with evidence. I will continue to expose those who faslely cite the ancients. Every time.
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Old 11-12-2015, 07:11 PM
 
338 posts, read 249,106 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cachibatches View Post
Thanks. Will give it a thorough read tomorrow.

The thing is, several migrations have been detected since at least the neolithic, which is exactly what we would expect from an area that is a cooridor of three continents. The Afro-thieves try to spin a false narrative that that there was an historical time when Africa was all black. The reality is that people have been back migrting for tens of thousands of years.



In other words, you now know that you are thoroughly beaten on every point.

Every time I see this silly subject I am going to post the truth backed with evidence. I will continue to expose those who faslely cite the ancients. Every time.

Beat me on every point? Your argument was weak lol. I'm done because I don't like debating with someone who can't debate like a mature adult and anyone who disagrees with your perspective you attack by berating and name calling, which only makes you look foolish.
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Old 11-12-2015, 07:33 PM
 
3,567 posts, read 2,550,911 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkc2j View Post
Beat me on every point? Your argument was weak lol. I'm done because I don't like debating with someone who can't debate like a mature adult and anyone who disagrees with your perspective you attack by berating and name calling, which only makes you look foolish.
I thought you were done.

On top of the fact that you are refusing to acknowledge the mountain of scientific evidence posted and the corrections on the histories that you cited without reading, it is also rich that you are crying when you got nasty with the marijuana comment, amongst others. No one likes crybaby.

We are not talking about perspectives. I cited massive evidence. You were simply incorrect, and at this point are now simply willfully ignorant.

Everyone can see who won the argument. Why don't you run along now like you said that you were going to.
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Old 11-12-2015, 07:49 PM
 
338 posts, read 249,106 times
Reputation: 360
On top of the fact that you are refusing to acknowledge the mountain of scientific evidence posted and the corrections on the histories that you cited without reading, it is also rich that you are crying when you got nasty with the marijuana comment, amongst others. No one likes crybaby.

We are not talking about perspectives. I cited massive evidence. You were simply incorrect, and at this point are now simply willfully ignorant.

Everyone can see who won the argument. Why don't you run along now like you said that you were going to.[/quote]


Marijuana comment? The heck are you talking about? You must have me confused with another poster. Never mentioned anything about marijuana on previous posts here. All you have to do is review my post history. You though on the other hand I can see based on your interactions with others here that you have brought nothing positive to these discussions and in my opinion shows some type of agenda or obsession you have with claiming Egypt having more in common with Europe than the rest Africa which is in my opinion complete lunacy.

Last edited by jkc2j; 11-12-2015 at 07:58 PM..
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Old 11-12-2015, 08:11 PM
 
Location: Vineland, NJ
8,488 posts, read 10,515,172 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkc2j View Post
Kill


Marijuana comment? The heck are you talking about? You must have me confused with another poster. Never mentioned anything about marijuana on previous posts here. All you have to do is review my post history. You though on the other hand I can see based on your interactions with others here that you have brought nothing positive to these discussions and in my opinion shows some type of agenda or obsession you have with claiming Egypt having more in common with Europe than the rest Africa which is in my opinion complete lunacy.
You have to be careful when you debate "cachibatches". He'll take your words and misuse them to fit his agenda. I've seen him do this to other people. When they debunk his argument, he will use those same old statistics that he uses in most topics. He's the type of guy that puts a hint of truth in a sea of lies and manipulation. Nothing gets this guy more angry then seeing an African American embrace Egypt and its culture. He hates hates anything that is Pan-Africanism or any type of African unity when it comes to ideology.
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