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Old 01-21-2015, 03:58 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwillyfromphilly View Post
Since most African American don't know there exact ethnic group or tribe, you can't blame them for having a pan-African viewpoint.
This is shameful rubbish. African Americans come from 13 countries in West and West central Africa. Just because they don't know their exact heritage does not mean that they get to pick it from any place they want. Why not claim to be Chinese or Mexican...oh wait, some Afrocentrists do.

In any event, from a quick google search:

Upper Guinea, including the modern countries of Senegal, Mali, Gambia, Guinea, Sierra Leone and Liberia; Lower Guinea, including the southern portions of Eastern Ivory Coast, Ghana, Togo, Benin and Nigeria; and West Central Africa, which encompassed mostly the western portions of the Democratic Republic of Congo and Angola.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gwillyfromphilly View Post
It's different than other ethnic groups like Chinese Americans or Italian Americans because they know exactly where they come from.
By this logic African Americans would have every right to view themselves as being from any of the counties THAT THEY MIGHT ACTUALLY HAVE COME FROM. They did not come from Egypt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gwillyfromphilly View Post
Just be happy that there are Blacks who are indeed interested in African history.
But it would be nice if more of them would be interested in building up their own history rather than stealing that of others. History does not come from nowhere...someone has to distill it and record it. If African Americans are interested in their own history, then why not do more work in going to Africa and investigating the oral traditions? Translating what is in the libraries of Timbuktu? Organizing archeological digs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gwillyfromphilly View Post
By the way, people can choose whatever they want to be interested in.
A complete canard, and a bizarre one since you JUST staked out the right of African Americans to claim Egypt as their ancestry. But I am not the least bit surprised that you change your points in the same breath...did we not have a thread in which you claimed up and down, in direct defiance of what you just said, that African Americans are not interested in claiming Egypt as their heritage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gwillyfromphilly View Post
If there are people who are interested in Egyptian history then let them be interested in it!
Sure, just don't in the next breath claim that it is your history whiles in the same breath claiming that you are not trying to claim it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gwillyfromphilly View Post
I'm sick of people telling Blacks what they can and cannot study. Why don't you worry about yourself and leave the Afrocentrists alone.
Because they are lying about history and to some of us, history is important for its own sake. History is not about the self esteem of some racial groups.

Last edited by cachibatches; 01-21-2015 at 04:39 AM..
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Old 01-21-2015, 11:35 AM
 
15,065 posts, read 19,716,377 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winchupuata View Post
Hu? He was Egyptian, how could he ever have been black? Who even thought he was black?
Read about "Nubians" and come back

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/20...-draper-text/2

Quote:
Piye was the first of the so-called black pharaohs—a series of Nubian kings who ruled over all of Egypt for three-quarters of a century as that country’s 25th dynasty. Through inscriptions carved on stelae by both the Nubians and their enemies, it is possible to map out these rulers’ vast footprint on the continent. The black pharaohs reunified a tattered Egypt and filled its landscape with glorious monuments, creating an empire that stretched from the southern border at present-day Khartoum all the way north to the Mediterranean Sea. They stood up to the bloodthirsty Assyrians, perhaps saving Jerusalem in the process.

Today Sudan’s pyramids—greater in number than all of Egypt’s—are haunting spectacles in the Nubian Desert. It is possible to wander among them unharassed, even alone, a world away from Sudan’s genocide and refugee crisis in Darfur or the aftermath of civil war in the south. While hundreds of miles north, at Cairo or Luxor, curiosity seekers arrive by the busload to jostle and crane for views of the Egyptian wonders, Sudan’s seldom-visited pyramids at El Kurru, Nuri, and Meroë stand serenely amid an arid landscape that scarcely hints of the thriving culture of ancient Nubia.
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Old 01-21-2015, 12:31 PM
 
Location: Vineland, NJ
8,483 posts, read 10,476,805 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cachibatches View Post
This is shameful rubbish. African Americans come from 13 countries in West and West central Africa. Just because they don't know their exact heritage does not mean that they get to pick it from any place they want. Why not claim to be Chinese or Mexican...oh wait, some Afrocentrists do.

In any event, from a quick google search:

Upper Guinea, including the modern countries of Senegal, Mali, Gambia, Guinea, Sierra Leone and Liberia; Lower Guinea, including the southern portions of Eastern Ivory Coast, Ghana, Togo, Benin and Nigeria; and West Central Africa, which encompassed mostly the western portions of the Democratic Republic of Congo and Angola.



By this logic African Americans would have every right to view themselves as being from any of the counties THAT THEY MIGHT ACTUALLY HAVE COME FROM. They did not come from Egypt.



But it would be nice if more of them would be interested in building up their own history rather than stealing that of others. History does not come from nowhere...someone has to distill it and record it. If African Americans are interested in their own history, then why not do more work in going to Africa and investigating the oral traditions? Translating what is in the libraries of Timbuktu? Organizing archeological digs?



A complete canard, and a bizarre one since you JUST staked out the right of African Americans to claim Egypt as their ancestry. But I am not the least bit surprised that you change your points in the same breath...did we not have a thread in which you claimed up and down, in direct defiance of what you just said, that African Americans are not interested in claiming Egypt as their heritage?



Sure, just don't in the next breath claim that it is your history whiles in the same breath claiming that you are not trying to claim it.



Because they are lying about history and to some of us, history is important for its own sake. History is not about the self esteem of some racial groups.
When it's all said and done, African Americans are free to study what they wish to. Since you don't know what country every African Americans' specific ancestry is from, you can't tell them what is their history is. We have the right to embrace all African countries if we choose to. Tunisia is no less African than Zambia. How arrogant of you to even say something like that. I would never go up to a White American and tell them what part of Europe they should be studying.

What's ironic is that it's just mostly Eurocentrists that have this problem when it comes to Egypt and Africa. Most Egyptians don't even have a problem with Black Americans embracing Egypt. Here in Philly we have an annual festival called Odunde which celebrates Pan-African culture. We've had Egyptians and other people of North African descent participate in the festival as well. They understand that Blacks view Egypt from a Pan-African perceptive just like any other African country. Egyptian Americans don't really get upset when so called Afrocentrists embrace Egypt. Most are flattered that some of them have a strong interest in Egyptian history.
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Old 01-21-2015, 12:56 PM
 
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cachibatches,

What did the early pre-dynastic Egyptians look like? That's the main question that people seem to have. What did the originators of Egypt look like?

Can you find pics of any modern Egyptians who look similar to these early kingdom Egyptians?
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Old 01-21-2015, 03:10 PM
 
3,520 posts, read 2,521,494 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motion View Post
cachibatches,

What did the early pre-dynastic Egyptians look like? That's the main question that people seem to have. What did the originators of Egypt look like?

Can you find pics of any modern Egyptians who look similar to these early kingdom Egyptians?
Since they are genetically almost identical, just google any pictures of modern Egyptians, and there is your answer. There would not have been one look, one skin tone. Egyptians would have been, just as they are now, all over the board.

It is a canard that there would have been one representative person, black, white or otherwise.
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Old 01-21-2015, 03:33 PM
 
3,520 posts, read 2,521,494 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwillyfromphilly View Post
When it's all said and done, African Americans are free to study what they wish to.
Once again, for all the world to see, you are changing your argument in real time. You put forward an impassioned defense of why African Americans should be able to claim Egypt as their heritage, and now you are trying to walk it back to "freedom to study."

Of course African Americans can study whatever they like, just don't try to sell it as your own heritage. It is anti-historical, unfair to real Egyptians, and leads to the angry rants of the deluded who think that others are trying to cover up "their" heritage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gwillyfromphilly View Post
Since you don't know what country every African Americans' specific ancestry is from, you can't tell them what is their history is.
I can tell them that it is not Egypt. Statistically negligible numbers of Americans come from Egypt, and none were brought over in the Trans-Atlantic slave trade. We can say it over and over again, because it is the truth. You might as well say you are Chinese or Mexican, as some Afrocentrists do.


Quote:
Originally Posted by gwillyfromphilly View Post
We have the right to embrace all African countries if we choose to. Tunisia is no less African than Zambia.
Embrace all you like...the issue is that you are trying to claim it as your heritage, which it is not. Tunisia is just as African as Zamibia, but has far less to nothing to do with African Americans.

We have played the argument drift game before. You have taken this from the "Tut was black" premise, to "African Americans have a right to claim Egypt" argument, to "African Americans can study whatever they want."

When you do these things, do you think that no one is reading along?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gwillyfromphilly View Post
How arrogant of you to even say something like that.
I am telling the truth. Faux outrage is the last tool of Afrocentrists, usually culminating in phony cries of racism. It means that I am winning the argument.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gwillyfromphilly View Post
I would never go up to a White American and tell them what part of Europe they should be studying.
You can say it as many times as you like and it will change nothing- no one is telling you what you can and cannot study. That is straw man fallacy. The issue is the falsification of history. The issue is pretending that the Egyptians were once a completely differently people that magically disappeared to suite your black Egypt fantasies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gwillyfromphilly View Post
What's ironic is that it's just mostly Eurocentrists that have this problem when it comes to Egypt and Africa.
No such thing is happening. In the modern era, scholars except that the Egyptians are the same people that they have always been.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gwillyfromphilly View Post
Most Egyptians don't even have a problem with Black Americans embracing Egypt.
What utter and fatuous nonsense. Zawass famously had to issue the statement which is the topic of this thread because of the ever-expanding chorus of Afro-centric thieves that want to swoop in and steal Egyptians history. Most Egyptians- and how comical it is that you pretend that you know most Egyptians- probably don't think about history on a daily basis, because most people of any origin don't. Those who are historians and archeologists, like Zawass, think of this as a cancer. HENCE THE STATEMENT WHICH IS THE SUBEJCT OF THIS THREAD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gwillyfromphilly View Post
Here in Philly we have an annual festival called Odunde which celebrates Pan-African culture. We've had Egyptians and other people of North African descent participate in the festival as well.
As it is a festival celebrating all of Africa, it makes sense that they would.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gwillyfromphilly View Post
They understand that Blacks view Egypt from a Pan-African perceptive just like any other African country. Egyptian Americans don't really get upset when so called Afrocentrists embrace Egypt. Most are flattered that some of them have a strong interest in Egyptian history.
Tell that to Zawass.

I am guessing that you have not spoken to a single North-African about the subject.
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Old 01-21-2015, 05:31 PM
 
15,065 posts, read 19,716,377 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motion View Post
cachibatches,

What did the early pre-dynastic Egyptians look like? That's the main question that people seem to have. What did the originators of Egypt look like?

Can you find pics of any modern Egyptians who look similar to these early kingdom Egyptians?
I cantell you that Modern Americans look completely different to the way Americans looked like 500 years ago
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Old 01-21-2015, 08:58 PM
 
6,566 posts, read 9,080,964 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cachibatches View Post

Since they are genetically almost identical, just google any pictures of modern Egyptians, and there is your answer. There would not have been one look, one skin tone. Egyptians would have been, just as they are now, all over the board.

It is a canard that there would have been one representative person, black, white or otherwise.
So the pre-dynastic and Old Kingdom Egyptians looked like modern day Egyptians?

I ask because I know many who have the Afrocentric view say that the original Egyptians were black Africans from Nubia then over time Egypt became more mixed as more outsiders moved into Egypt over it's history.
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Old 01-22-2015, 04:44 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motion View Post
So the pre-dynastic and Old Kingdom Egyptians looked like modern day Egyptians?

I ask because I know many who have the Afrocentric view say that the original Egyptians were black Africans from Nubia then over time Egypt became more mixed as more outsiders moved into Egypt over it's history.
Check out some of the studies I posted, especially the video clips.

The primary mixing in Egypt occurred throughout the stone ages. As Keita himself...one of the guys Afrocentrists strangely cite...tells us, the diversity we see in Egypt was always there.

Certainly new groups continued to come in through Eurasia, but

A) The small numbers of garrison troops that they might leave were always a drop in the bucket to the millions of indigenous inhabitants. And...
B) The invaders came from both directions, not to mention that the numbers of blacks introduced to Egypt through the Arab slave trade dwarfed anything left by Eurasian conquerors.

They are 90% genetically identical, and if anything, a little "blacker" now.

It is all there in the science. The Afrocentrists are only concerned about self esteem issues.
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Old 01-22-2015, 08:39 AM
 
15,065 posts, read 19,716,377 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cachibatches View Post
It is all there in the science. The Afrocentrists are only concerned about self esteem issues.
All you have to do is look at a map and see how far Sudan is from Egypt (right next to it)
aside from the fact that there are egyptian pyramids in Sudan
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