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Old 01-19-2015, 06:20 AM
 
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Tutankhamun was not black: antiquities chief - IOL SciTech | IOL.co.za

Egyptian antiquities chief declared that Tutankhamun was not black ,what's the truth ?
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Old 01-19-2015, 07:25 AM
 
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Hu? He was Egyptian, how could he ever have been black? Who even thought he was black?
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Old 01-19-2015, 10:23 AM
 
Location: Vineland, NJ
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Originally Posted by scobby View Post
Tutankhamun was not black: antiquities chief - IOL SciTech | IOL.co.za

Egyptian antiquities chief declared that Tutankhamun was not black ,what's the truth ?
That story is from 2007. Zahi Hawass seems to go all over the place with his statements over the years. He'll defend that the ancient Egyptians were not Arab but has a huge problem claiming them as being Black. Not saying that you have to apply skin color to Ancient people but I don't hear him denouncing that Egyptians were any other color. He seems to only attack Blackness. Seems like he has that "call them anything but Black" mentality that a lot of ignorant and racist Eurocentrics seem to have. Zahi Hawass has a lot of self hate as he probably hates the fact that he has African ancestry. He's seems to be one those Egyptians who only claim their Arab heritage while completely ignoring their African heritage. It's sort of like a mestizo from Latin American who only claims their Spanish ancestry while completely ignoring their indigenous Amerindian heritage.
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Old 01-19-2015, 11:17 AM
 
Location: East of the Sun, West of the Moon
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Define 'Black'.
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Old 01-19-2015, 12:38 PM
 
Location: Middle of the Pacific Ocean
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Originally Posted by gwillyfromphilly View Post
That story is from 2007. Zahi Hawass seems to go all over the place with his statements over the years. He'll defend that the ancient Egyptians were not Arab but has a huge problem claiming them as being Black. Not saying that you have to apply skin color to Ancient people but I don't hear him denouncing that Egyptians were any other color. He seems to only attack Blackness. Seems like he has that "call them anything but Black" mentality that a lot of ignorant and racist Eurocentrics seem to have. Zahi Hawass has a lot of self hate as he probably hates the fact that he has African ancestry. He's seems to be one those Egyptians who only claim their Arab heritage while completely ignoring their African heritage. It's sort of like a mestizo from Latin American who only claims their Spanish ancestry while completely ignoring their indigenous Amerindian heritage.
I agree with this. Zahi Hawass seems to take special and particular offense to the notion that ancient Egyptians could have been black. And, note, while Hawass will acknowledge that ancient Egyptians weren't Arabs, he says that modern Egyptian Arabs are the direct descendants of ancient Egyptians (NOVA | Who Built the Pyramids?). Now I'm not claiming that all or most ancient Egyptians were black, but there are several things to consider:

Apart from the reality of the 25th Nubian Dynasty of Egypt, which was clearly a black African dynasty, the Hawass narrative ignores the fact that Nubians were very much a part of ancient Egyptian society (note, I acknowledge that this meant different things at different times) and that some pharaohs, including King Tutankhamun, possibly had Nubian ancestry. For instance, it is accepted by some Egyptologists that the Great Royal Wife Queen Tiye, mother of Akhenaten and grandmother of Tutankhamen, was of partial Nubian descent. Specifically, it is accepted by some that Tiye's father, Yuya, was Nubian. But just look at many of the depictions of ancient Egyptians. Many, although not all, have facial features that are very consistent with Nubian/sub-Saharan African features. Note, this is especially important to trying to read into ancient Egyptians' racial background as the colors of various sculptures and paintings apparently don't mean much as ancient Egyptians painted themselves as all sorts of colors (from green to black to red to brown, etc.). Granted, again, I'm not claiming that ancient Egyptians were all black or only black, but I'm not discounting that a significant percentage had black African ancestry, among other ancestry.
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Old 01-19-2015, 12:40 PM
 
Location: Middle of the Pacific Ocean
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Originally Posted by ABQConvict View Post
Define 'Black'.
That's a good question. Even if we limit our understanding of what is "black" to the peoples of today's sub-Saharan African region, its important to acknowledge that not all of the peoples in this region have the same skin tone, hair texture, etc. (think the stereotypical Somali and Ethiopian vs. the stereotypical Ghanaian and Nigerian).
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Old 01-19-2015, 09:30 PM
 
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Listen to this.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZssWb4MmGM
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Old 01-19-2015, 09:42 PM
 
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I've heard it pointed out that what people need to realize is that not all Africans are "black". So saying that the Egyptians were Africans,which they were,doesn't automatically mean they were black or all black. The Berber people for example are indigenous to North Africa but the Berber aren't a black people. Maybe something similar was with the Egyptian population? Maybe this explains why they always painted themselves as looking different from the more obviously black Nubians from the south?
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Old 01-20-2015, 12:42 AM
 
Location: Middle of the Pacific Ocean
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Originally Posted by Motion View Post
Maybe this explains why they always painted themselves as looking different from the more obviously black Nubians from the south?
I don't know, Ancient Egyptians painted themselves in many different ways, including in ways that would make them look like Nubians. For instance, see Ahmose-Nefertari - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

See also this bust of Queen Tiye: http://www.monitor.co.ug/image/view/...iews01+pix.gif

At the end of the day, Ancient Egyptians seemed to have painted themselves black, brown, green, white, etc. Thus, it's hard to ascertain what the color of the painting (assuming this is what you were referring to) tells us as far as race is concerned and Egyptologists generally have refused to do so for this exact reason. But note, the "black" peoples of Africa today do not all look alike. Indeed, as I mentioned before, Somalians and Ethiopians do not look like Nigerians and Ghanaians. Yet, all call themselves black. For this reason, I look more closely at facial features on statutes and paintings, which I think may give greater insight into what the ancient Egyptians looked like. Often times, these sculptures/paintings have features consistent with black Africans.

Note, this conversation is about indigenous ancient Egyptians, not the many outside populations that once ruled over ancient Egypt at various times.
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Old 01-20-2015, 04:58 AM
 
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The ancient Egyptians are 90% identical to moderns, except that there is more "black" in them now do to the Arab slave trade.

They are a very mixed race, as Eurasians started back migrating to North Africa in the stone ages. They still have a great deal of native African "E," but this does not mean "black" as North Africans evolved on a similar latitude, and look like Middle Easterners.

Tut's family, including Tiye, had European blood types and red hair. The depiction of her as "black" comes from wood darkening.

Professor P. F. Ceccaldi, with a research team behind him,studied some hairs which were removed from the mummy's scalp. Ramesses II was90 years-old when he died, and his hair had turned white. Ceccaldi determinedthat the reddish-yellow colour of the mummy's hair had been brought about byits being dyed with a dilute henna solution; it proved to be an example of thecosmetic attentions of the embalmers. However, traces of the hair's originalcolour (in youth), remain in the roots, even into advanced old age. Microscopicexaminations proved that the hair roots contained traces of natural redpigments, and that therefore, during his youth, Ramesses II had beenred-haired. It was concluded that these red pigments did not result from thehair somehow fading, or otherwise altering [/SIZE][SIZE=3]post-mortem,[/SIZE][SIZE=3] but did indeedrepresent Ramesses' natural hair colour. Ceccaldi also studied a cross-sectionof the hairs, and he determined from their oval shape, that Ramesses had been"cymotrich" (wavy-haired). Finally, he stated that such a combinationof features showed that Ramesses had been a "leucoderm"(white-skinned person). [Balout, et al.
Scientific analysis of his (Ramses II) has confirmed that inhis youth, the king was indeed a natural redhead. (Tyldesley 2001).

Thuya's hair is luxuriant and the same auburn color (asTiye's). The hair is naturally auburn. (El Mahdy, 2001

Seti I had red hair (Roberts, 2004

]The entire "black Egypt" thing was created to address self esteem needs. Everyone has seen depictions of the ancients, and know what they looked like. A few do look strikingly "black," a vast majority do not, and Afrocentrist always try to pass off depictions of Nubians, Pharoah in symbolic blackness, etc.

Mitochondrial DNA Sequence Diversity in a Sedentary Population from Egypt - Stevanovitch - 2004 - Annals of Human Genetics - Wiley Online Library

Population history of North Africa: Evidence from classical genetic markers - Tags: HUMAN population genetics

Near eastern neolithic genetic input in ... [Am J Phys Anthropol. 2009] - PubMed - NCBI

The Levant versus the Horn of Africa: Evidence for Bidirectional Corridors of Human Migrations

PLOS Genetics: Genomic Ancestry of North Africans Supports Back-to-Africa Migrations

Y-chromosome analysis in Egypt suggests a genetic r... [Hum Biol. 2002] - PubMed - NCBI

Mitochondrial DNA structure in North Africa reveals a genetic discontinuity in the Nile Valley - Fadhlaoui-Zid - 2011 - American Journal of Physical Anthropology - Wiley Online Library

PLOS ONE: North African Populations Carry the Signature of Admixture with Neandertals



PROOF Modern Egyptians descend from Ancient Egyptians - YouTube























Who were the ancient Egyptians? Dental a... [Am J Phys Anthropol. 2006] - PubMed - NCBI


mtDNA analysis in ancient Nubians suppo... [Ann Hum Biol. 1997 May-Jun] - PubMed - NCBI

mtDNA analysis of Nile River Valley populatio... [Am J Hum Genet. 1999] - PubMed - NCBI


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11006048

Clines and clusters versus


The questionable contribution of the Neolithic and the Bronze Age to European craniofacial form



Shomarka Omar Keita: What Genetics Can Tell Us (EGYPT) - YouTube




http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1216069/?tool=pmcentrez[/SIZE]

Thus, we propose that the Neolithic transitionin this part of the world was accompanied by demic diffusion ofAfro-Asiatic–speaking pastoralists from the Middle East.

BMC Genetics | Full text | Mitochondrial DNA transit between West Asia and North Africa inferred from U6 phylogeography

suggested a West Asian origin for theautochthonous North African lineage U6.

The mtDNA Legacy of the Levantine Early Upper Palaeolithic in Africa

that allowed humans to enter the Levant, openingthe way to the colonization of both Europe and North Africa

European Journal of Human Genetics - Abstract of article: Human Y chromosome haplogroup R-V88: a paternal genetic record of early mid Holocene trans-Saharan connections and the spread of Chadic languages

) may have been carried to Africa by anAsia-to-Africa back migration in prehistoric times.

The complex and diversified mitochondrial gene... [Ann Hum Genet. 2009] - PubMed - NCBI[/

Ourfindings show that the Berber mitochondrial pool is characterized by an overallhigh frequency of Western Eurasian haplogroups...

PLOS ONE: Introducing the Algerian Mitochondrial DNA and Y-Chromosome Profiles into the North African Landscape

From the beginning, a prominent mtDNAEuroasiatic genetic component was observed in the Northern areas occupied byMorocco [5] and Egypt [6],

The questionable contribution of the Neolithic and the Bronze Age to European craniofacial form

and recent human craniofacial dimensions supports thepicture documented by genetics that the extension of Neolithic agriculture fromthe Near East westward to Europe and across North Africawas accomplished by a process of demic diffusion (11–15)....

Whowere the ancient Egyptians? Dental affinities among Neolithic throughpostdynastic peoples

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16331657

JDIRISH 2006

the dynastic period is likely an indigenous continuation of the Naqadaculture, 4) there is support for overall biological uniformity through thedynastic period, and 5) this uniformity may continue into postdynastic times.












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