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Old 02-04-2015, 01:38 AM
 
1,689 posts, read 2,225,423 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwillyfromphilly View Post
Yes, anything but Black is acceptable. Only attack the Afrocentrics. That's the agenda. Keep up the good work Irene.
I am being honest

Were the black folks in ancient egypt? 100% SURE!!! look at some of the hieroglyphics they portray black folks!!! but we have to remember that blacks in ancient egypt were EAST AFRICANS, HORNERS... many were Nubians!!! people who differ culturally and ethnically from the west africans (Blacks in the Americas come from West Africa)

now when hollywood makes movies about egypt with a bunch of anglo-saxons is ridiculous too, there is NOTHING anglo about Egypt, the only thing anglo in egypt is how they sacked egypt in the 18th and 19th century like the pirates and thieves they are and took it all back to london!

Anciet Egypt was a powerful empire that lasted over one thousand years, being an empire it was multicultural because many migrated there to live in this glorious place so it was full of different ethnic groups....

from greeks, to romans, to nubians, to persians, to phoenicians, to turks, to jews you name it! there are even records of East Asians and people from the Hindus valley (modern india) coming to egypt to visit!

but to claim that egypt is black or white (as if it was modern America) it's stupid!

 
Old 02-04-2015, 04:21 AM
 
3,512 posts, read 2,516,206 times
Reputation: 6795
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwillyfromphilly View Post
Yes, anything but Black is acceptable. Only attack the Afrocentrics. That's the agenda. Keep up the good work Irene.
Gwilly...Irene is not obligated to attack both sides equally, because both sides are not equal. If you are saying that the Egyptians were once a different, blacker people, then the burden of proof is on you. Present EVIDENCE to match what I have presented.

Please present EVIDENCE. Not invective, not attitude, but EVIDENCE. The Egyptians weren't black just because you want them to be and no one has a responsibility to entertain the notion.

I understand the attraction of making emotional straw man arguments- they require no knowledge, no wisdom, no intelligence, no forethought, no research, and no evidence, and if you can fool people in buying into them, they frame you as being the good guy.

But at the end of the day, the answer is still going to be that you have presented no EVIDENCE.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gwillyfromphilly View Post
Maybe they don't brainwash Italians as bad as other Western countries but a lot of them think that Egyptians are White.
Is there no end to your avoidance of topic and shameful straw men? No one on this or any other thread that I have seen has claimed the the Egyptians are white. It is explicitly NOT WHAT THE THREAD IS ABOUT. You are playing this card so that you do not have to present EVIDENCE that the Egyptians were black.

Are you arguing that the Egyptians were black, and do you intend to post evidence?

Last edited by cachibatches; 02-04-2015 at 04:30 AM..
 
Old 02-04-2015, 01:28 PM
 
3,565 posts, read 1,875,735 times
Reputation: 2263
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irene-cd View Post
I am being honest

Were the black folks in ancient egypt? 100% SURE!!! look at some of the hieroglyphics they portray black folks!!! but we have to remember that blacks in ancient egypt were EAST AFRICANS, HORNERS... many were Nubians!!! people who differ culturally and ethnically from the west africans (Blacks in the Americas come from West Africa)

now when hollywood makes movies about egypt with a bunch of anglo-saxons is ridiculous too, there is NOTHING anglo about Egypt, the only thing anglo in egypt is how they sacked egypt in the 18th and 19th century like the pirates and thieves they are and took it all back to london!

Anciet Egypt was a powerful empire that lasted over one thousand years, being an empire it was multicultural because many migrated there to live in this glorious place so it was full of different ethnic groups....

from greeks, to romans, to nubians, to persians, to phoenicians, to turks, to jews you name it! there are even records of East Asians and people from the Hindus valley (modern india) coming to egypt to visit!

but to claim that egypt is black or white (as if it was modern America) it's stupid!
Be careful, cachibatches is on her way to arguing that the Egyptians were more white than they were black.

Egypt was also the center of important trade routes from the Levant to Egypt to Nubia to the Horn of Africa to the Arabian Peninsula.

While the points of departure for the transatlantic slave trade were on the western coasts of Africa, it is not fair to say that the black people in the Americas came from West Africa exclusively. Most researchers think that the bulk of transatlantic-traded slaves came from west and central Africa. There were major slave ports as far south as present-day Angola.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cachibatches View Post
Gwilly...Irene is not obligated to attack both sides equally, because both sides are not equal. If you are saying that the Egyptians were once a different, blacker people, then the burden of proof is on you. Present EVIDENCE to match what I have presented.

Please present EVIDENCE. Not invective, not attitude, but EVIDENCE. The Egyptians weren't black just because you want them to be and no one has a responsibility to entertain the notion.

I understand the attraction of making emotional straw man arguments- they require no knowledge, no wisdom, no intelligence, no forethought, no research, and no evidence, and if you can fool people in buying into them, they frame you as being the good guy.

But at the end of the day, the answer is still going to be that you have presented no EVIDENCE.



Is there no end to your avoidance of topic and shameful straw men? No one on this or any other thread that I have seen has claimed the the Egyptians are white. It is explicitly NOT WHAT THE THREAD IS ABOUT. You are playing this card so that you do not have to present EVIDENCE that the Egyptians were black.

Are you arguing that the Egyptians were black, and do you intend to post evidence?
Irene correctly acknowledged that Egyptians were . . . Egyptian. And that they encountered the many peoples of the ancient world. So cachi, were the Egyptians more white than they were black?
 
Old 02-04-2015, 01:48 PM
 
3,512 posts, read 2,516,206 times
Reputation: 6795
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCityTheBridge View Post
Be careful, cachibatches is on her way to arguing that the Egyptians were more white than they were black.
This is a shameful straw man and anyone following the thread can see it. Please present EVIDENCE that they were black or stand down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCityTheBridge View Post
Egypt was also the center of important trade routes from the Levant to Egypt to Nubia to the Horn of Africa to the Arabian Peninsula.
This is exactly correct, which is why they are a mixed race- hence all of the SCIENCE that I posted saying so. Most of that mix, however, was not black. They were not a black civilization as OP wishes, but a civilization with a black minority, the same as modern day America. If you think otherwise, please post EVIDENCE.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCityTheBridge View Post
While the points of departure for the transatlantic slave trade were on the western coasts of Africa, it is not fair to say that the black people in the Americas came from West Africa exclusively. Most researchers think that the bulk of transatlantic-traded slaves came from west and central Africa. There were major slave ports as far south as present-day Angola.
What has this got to do with Egyptians? Yes, Africans Americans come from West and West Central Africa. Are you presenting any EVIDENCE that the Egyptian were black?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCityTheBridge View Post
Irene correctly acknowledged that Egyptians were . . . Egyptian. And that they encountered the many peoples of the ancient world.
What has this got to do with OP saying that the ancients were black when largely they weren't? Please stay on topic. We are going to focus on EVIDENCE like a laser and not be distracted.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCityTheBridge View Post
So cachi, were the Egyptians more white than they were black?
Since I have once again posted over a dozen studies saying what they are, why don't you read them? Let me short hand it for you: they are 90% genetically identical to their modern counterparts. The same mix that we see today was always there because Egypt has always been a corridor for migration since the stone ages.

I have seen a lot of crying from the usual suspects and not one attempt at presenting EVIDENCE? How about one of you make and argument?

And please, please, please, lose the emoticons. They identify someone who cannot successfully use words to express himself.

Last edited by cachibatches; 02-04-2015 at 02:10 PM..
 
Old 02-05-2015, 11:02 AM
 
Location: London, UK
9,992 posts, read 9,958,399 times
Reputation: 3473
Quote:
Originally Posted by xander.XVII View Post
and you take this info from?
The Media and school books.
 
Old 02-05-2015, 12:25 PM
 
3,565 posts, read 1,875,735 times
Reputation: 2263
Quote:
Originally Posted by cachibatches View Post
This is a shameful straw man and anyone following the thread can see it. Please present EVIDENCE that they were black or stand down.
So silly. Why would I present evidence Egyptians were black? I agree with the consensus view--that it does not make sense to apply contemporary black/white racial categories to ancient Egypt. Ancient Egypt was a multi-ethnic empire. Black and white were not racial categories to the Egyptians.

It is not a strawman because you have said it before.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cachibatches View Post
This is exactly correct, which is why they are a mixed race- hence all of the SCIENCE that I posted saying so. Most of that mix, however, was not black. They were not a black civilization as OP wishes, but a civilization with a black minority, the same as modern day America. If you think otherwise, please post EVIDENCE.
They were not the same as modern day America. That should be obvious to anyone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cachibatches View Post
What has this got to do with Egyptians? Yes, Africans Americans come from West and West Central Africa. Are you presenting any EVIDENCE that the Egyptian were black?
Sometimes conversations go in directions that you do not choose cachi. Like people discussing the transatlantic slave trade in the context of a discussion of race and ancient Egypt.

And note that I did not say that "Africans Americans come from West and West Central Africa." That statement lacks nuance (and strangely selects a non-standard geographical description--West Central Africa--without bothering to define it). Most researchers believe that most transatlantic slaves were from west and central Africa. Key terms: most. Not all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cachibatches View Post
What has this got to do with OP saying that the ancients were black when largely they weren't? Please stay on topic. We are going to focus on EVIDENCE like a laser and not be distracted.
Like I said, you don't get to choose what everyone focuses on. Nor do you get to choose my position by turning me into a strawman.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cachibatches View Post
Since I have once again posted over a dozen studies saying what they are, why don't you read them? Let me short hand it for you: they are 90% genetically identical to their modern counterparts. The same mix that we see today was always there because Egypt has always been a corridor for migration since the stone ages.
Your studies do not say what you think that they do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cachibatches View Post
I have seen a lot of crying from the usual suspects and not one attempt at presenting EVIDENCE? How about one of you make and argument?

And please, please, please, lose the emoticons. They identify someone who cannot successfully use words to express himself.
How about you listen, rather than shout?
 
Old 02-05-2015, 12:30 PM
 
51 posts, read 44,996 times
Reputation: 32
No, Cleopatra was not black...
No, Egyptians are not black, there might be blacks as in any country.
There were black pharaos on the upper nile, not in classical Egypt.
Blacks were not welcome in ancient Egypt judging from the monolith after the third waterfall, I believe.
 
Old 02-05-2015, 02:01 PM
 
3,512 posts, read 2,516,206 times
Reputation: 6795
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCityTheBridge View Post
So silly. Why would I present evidence Egyptians were black? I agree with the consensus view--that it does not make sense to apply contemporary black/white racial categories to ancient Egypt. Ancient Egypt was a multi-ethnic empire. Black and white were not racial categories to the Egyptians. ?
Actually, they referred to Nubians by a word that is often translated as "black" or "negro."

The ancients may not have modern racial categories...they had their own. The only people that do not know this are people who have never actually read any ancient history.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCityTheBridge View Post
It is not a strawman because you have said it before.
Its not what this thread are about. You are baiting. And if you agree with the science that I have posted, one wonders why bother to do so?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCityTheBridge View Post
They were not the same as modern day America. That should be obvious to anyone.
You simply did not read correctly (which does not surprise me..you do tend to infer whatever you like). I said that they were like America in that they had a black minority, and this is 100% correct.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCityTheBridge View Post
Sometimes conversations go in directions that you do not choose cachi.
Changing the subject is called "hijacking" and is verboten on this forum.

OP made the contention that the Egyptians used to be black- I have presented overwhelming evidence that this was not the case. He and his supporters are going to have to put up some EVIDENCE or, for the sake of those reading along, I am going to keep reminding all that they don't have any and that they are merely talking about their desires.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCityTheBridge View Post
Like people discussing the transatlantic slave trade in the context of a discussion of race and ancient Egypt.
And you have yet to explain what one had to do with the other. Different regions of a massive continent...different millennia....

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCityTheBridge View Post
And note that I did not say that "Africans Americans come from West and West Central Africa." That statement lacks nuance (and strangely selects a non-standard geographical description--West Central Africa--without bothering to define it). Most researchers believe that most transatlantic slaves were from west and central Africa. Key terms: most. Not all.
Meaningless observations. Nothing to do with the conversation at hand. West and West Central is an excellent description of the thirteen countries of the Atlantic slave trade, whether it is standard nomenclature or not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCityTheBridge View Post
Like I said, you don't get to choose what everyone focuses on.
Hijacking a thread is against forum rules.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCityTheBridge View Post
Nor do you get to choose my position by turning me into a strawman.
Everything that you say is a strawman in that it has nothing to do with the topic.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCityTheBridge View Post
Your studies do not say what you think that they do.
IN MOST CASES I HAVE INCLUDED THE CONCLUSIONS OF THE SCIENTISTS. They say exactly what I think they do, you simply have not read/do not understand them, and it is truly astonishing. You have obviously never even looked at them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCityTheBridge View Post
How about you listen, rather than shout?
Because you aren't saying anything related to the topic. The topic is a statement that the Egyptians are black. I have refuted that. I am supposed to listen to you baiting me? I am supposed to listen to you going on about how the trans Atlantic slave trade was in Central Africa and pretend that you have a point?

Last edited by cachibatches; 02-05-2015 at 03:31 PM..
 
Old 02-05-2015, 02:21 PM
 
2,541 posts, read 2,155,743 times
Reputation: 3824
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrcricket300 View Post
Ancient Egypt was probably a multicultural place which had every race.
That's incorrect. That specific mural depicted 4 different nationalities of the time: a Libyan, a Nubian, a Syrian, and an Egyptian.
 
Old 02-06-2015, 05:59 AM
 
1,603 posts, read 1,460,568 times
Reputation: 2024
Quote:
Originally Posted by P London View Post
The Media and school books.
I only saw schoolbooks saying that Cleopatra and her kin (Ptolemaics) were white and they were since they were Greeks, otherwise I have seen nowhere the claim that Ancient Egyptians are white.
They might be depicted as such (Exodus for example, which is an American film btw) but I never heard (and being an European I never felt) of Egyptians (be them modern or ancient) seen as Europeans.
Jesus is often depicted as white while he was probable of "olive skin".
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