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Old 04-26-2015, 03:59 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snj90 View Post
Murders are rampant. White South Africans are facing genocide.

FARMITRACKER
It would take a braver man than me to remain on a farm in South Africa that is for certain.

We use this word boer today, and forget it was originally trekboer. I understand people being tid to the land but I have to wonder if it is not time for the boer to move elsewhere in Africa. There are African countries inviting in farmers, and from what little I see on YouTube the people who take up these offers are building happy, new lives. I am sure it seems unthinkable to some, but I am also sure the forefathers of the original trekboer a never foresaw their descendants leaving the western Cape either. That still leaves the unskilled and poor in squatter camps with little help, but perhaps some sort of society funded through donations could help effect their movement to places with more opportunity.

I know that is an unsatisfying strategy, but it is also a proven survival method for a minority group.
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Old 04-26-2015, 09:18 PM
 
Location: Macao
15,945 posts, read 36,164,246 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AuburnAL View Post
It would take a braver man than me to remain on a farm in South Africa that is for certain.

We use this word boer today, and forget it was originally trekboer. I understand people being tid to the land but I have to wonder if it is not time for the boer to move elsewhere in Africa. There are African countries inviting in farmers, and from what little I see on YouTube the people who take up these offers are building happy, new lives. I am sure it seems unthinkable to some, but I am also sure the forefathers of the original trekboer a never foresaw their descendants leaving the western Cape either. That still leaves the unskilled and poor in squatter camps with little help, but perhaps some sort of society funded through donations could help effect their movement to places with more opportunity.

I know that is an unsatisfying strategy, but it is also a proven survival method for a minority group.
There was another journeyman showing some being welcomed to Mozambique. But, I think underlying it, the same issues apply.

They come in, they treat the locals like garbage, make them clear large swaths of land, that the locals themselves will never be able to use again. Than they start employing them to do hard hard labor for their crops to sell to others. Basically, they have a very unsustainable system built around one family owning large swaths of private property - and the masses living in near poverty doing all the back-breaking work. I mean, the white farmers are doing a lot of work as well, but they are benefiting the most from carving the lands for their own purpose.

They displace a lot of locals who are living much more community-oriented and sharing resources, basically. It's more clear in countries like Mozambique, as its new lands being carved up for private property, and always the best lands as well.
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Old 04-26-2015, 10:45 PM
 
3,806 posts, read 5,200,549 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Beer View Post
There was another journeyman showing some being welcomed to Mozambique. But, I think underlying it, the same issues apply.

They come in, they treat the locals like garbage, make them clear large swaths of land, that the locals themselves will never be able to use again. Than they start employing them to do hard hard labor for their crops to sell to others. Basically, they have a very unsustainable system built around one family owning large swaths of private property - and the masses living in near poverty doing all the back-breaking work. I mean, the white farmers are doing a lot of work as well, but they are benefiting the most from carving the lands for their own purpose.

They displace a lot of locals who are living much more community-oriented and sharing resources, basically. It's more clear in countries like Mozambique, as its new lands being carved up for private property, and always the best lands as well.
That is a problem with industrialized agriculture to be sure. Ideally some local small farmers would either be gaining the knowledge and resources to consolidate their own farms into one as their neighbors picked up skills or simply the will to light off for a city creating willing sellers. I can see situations in which the first part of that is not happening, but a nation must be well and truly screwed up for there not to be at least some of the second going on.

At the same time your description does miss the net benefit provided to the nation as a whole of a consolidated farm as they can produce food far cheaper than individual small holdings which leads to some mix of lower food costs for everyone and more cash crops for exports which provide one of the renewable extractive industries while also helping a nation's balance of trade.
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Old 04-27-2015, 12:03 AM
 
Location: Macao
15,945 posts, read 36,164,246 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AuburnAL View Post
That is a problem with industrialized agriculture to be sure. Ideally some local small farmers would either be gaining the knowledge and resources to consolidate their own farms into one as their neighbors picked up skills or simply the will to light off for a city creating willing sellers. I can see situations in which the first part of that is not happening, but a nation must be well and truly screwed up for there not to be at least some of the second going on.

At the same time your description does miss the net benefit provided to the nation as a whole of a consolidated farm as they can produce food far cheaper than individual small holdings which leads to some mix of lower food costs for everyone and more cash crops for exports which provide one of the renewable extractive industries while also helping a nation's balance of trade.
I think that argument is a very western-centric argument.

But, usually what happens is a few people benefit enormously from that system. Ideally the ones who own all that wealth and the lands. They would export all the best crops to somewhere else, for their own profits. Those very few select people would be jetsetting all over the world, fine-dining, enjoying their immense success.

Everyone else under them loses lands that they were able to eat from, survive from, etc. You divide up more private property, you spend more wealth and gov't resources to ensure people don't step into the property. You displace more people, pushing them ultimately to urban ghettos; as you basically come to a system where no one has any right to live off the land, unless they've been able to be educated enough to carve off a large chunk for themselves and protect it legally.

In short, there are some definite disadvantages to cutting up and enforcing private lands, and pushing everyone else into urban ghettos.
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Old 04-27-2015, 03:57 AM
 
Location: London, UK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AuburnAL View Post
I had not heard this. That is a shame as well. If everyone is doing worse than they were before or even only as well as they were then I do not know what to say. I can't I've heard much good about the ANC government since Mandela was president, but you'd think there's got to be some group doing better than they were, or they'd vote for some other party into power.
I'll try and get the articles up with quotations but South Africa hasn't changed much in terms of race relations, its still the most Violent Countries in the World, high race inequality and racial discrimination towards Black South Africans are rampant. Now there's a backlash of racism towards Whites doesn't really prove that White South Africans are left behind. They may feel uncomfortable but the majority of SA history Whites have been oppressing the Blacks - so take it as revenge and anger they have every right to be. On the flip side I'm sure many Black-White south Africans are friendly to each other after all we are all Human.

Its simply revenge I'm not saying its right but what do you expect? That everything is rosy?
http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/arn...-south-africa/

This...
http://www.iol.co.za/sundayindepende...4#.VT4JIbR0zug


Quote:
Originally Posted by snj90 View Post
Murders are rampant. White South Africans are facing genocide.

FARMITRACKER
Remember not to long ago it was the other way round. Also Native South Africans are still on average poorer than Whites.
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Old 04-27-2015, 11:06 AM
 
274 posts, read 293,175 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AuburnAL View Post
I had not heard this. That is a shame as well. If everyone is doing worse than they were before or even only as well as they were then I do not know what to say. I can't I've heard much good about the ANC government since Mandela was president, but you'd think there's got to be some group doing better than they were, or they'd vote for some other party into power.
It's complicated unfortunately. Technically the DA are the official opposition but they are perceived as a white party. The ANC then constantly remind the country of Apartheid and constantly try to reinforce the idea that if someone like the DA came into power then they will bring back Apartheid. They also constantly ride on Mandela's legacy and try to reinforce the idea that it was the ANC alone who brought an end to Apartheid (which they weren't). Then when elections come the ANC will campaign hard and visit all the rural areas and drop off food parcels and tshirts (essentially an attempt to buy their vote). They will also then promise the world to the masses (who are largely uneducated). So the promise of jobs and land for all. Then you have your basic scare tactics where they'll have a just intimidate people at the ballot boxes. Lastly when they see they might lose ground in 1 area they'll just quickly rezone some of the area around it in order to bring in more pro ANC voters.

So to sum up
  • Official opposition is perceived as a white party who will bring back Apartheid
  • ANC propaganda (they control the SABC after all thanks to cadre deployment)
  • Rinding on Mandela's legacy
  • Food parcels and Tshirts for the poor but only at election time (once it's over they'll never hear from them again until the next election)
  • False promises
  • Scare tactics
  • Intimidation
  • Rezone areas to keep as many wards under ANC control

For the most part the masses are slowly seeing that the ANC is not the party that Mandela once led. And now that Helen Zilla is not running for leader of the DA, this opens it up for Mmusi Mmaimane to step up and this will hopefully lead the party away from that "white party" image. Although even when they do something like this in the DA, people still get up in arms and complain that they are just using black people as window dressing. It really is a difficult position they're in.

So that's about as brief a summary as I can muster at this point. There's still more to it than that though. For instance there are areas that the ANC has actually helped and so these people vote ANC because to them they are actually helping. Then you get a lot who vote out of blind loyalty for the ANC. They hate Jacob Zuma but they are loyal to the ANC. It's unbelievably frustrating to say the least.
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Old 04-27-2015, 02:16 PM
 
Location: South Jersey
13,356 posts, read 7,023,804 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P London View Post
Remember not to long ago it was the other way round. Also Native South Africans are still on average poorer than Whites.
Whites are native South Africans. South Africa was built by whites. Whites were in South Africa prior to the ancestors of most black South Africans.
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Old 04-27-2015, 03:33 PM
 
15,065 posts, read 19,701,220 times
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This thread is funny
when 90% of South Africans are poor (black) everything is fine
when a few of the other 10% are poor (white) everything is bad.

Reality is that color shouldn't matter.
Poverty is poverty, period.
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Old 04-27-2015, 03:40 PM
 
Location: South Jersey
13,356 posts, read 7,023,804 times
Reputation: 4857
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dopo View Post
This thread is funny
when 90% of South Africans are poor (black) everything is fine
when a few of the other 10% are poor (white) everything is bad.

Reality is that color shouldn't matter.
Poverty is poverty, period.
"Color shouldn't matter." What a convenient thing to say when color absolutely DOES matter to the ANC. It's hard for many whites to get jobs in South Africa due to rather extreme, legally-mandated discrimination (affirmative action). And color matters when we consider the breakdown of interracial crime. Being a white farmer in South Africa is statistically one of the most dangerous (if not the most dangerous) occupations in the world.

Color obviously mattered to Nelson Mandela when he sang about killing white people.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcOXqFQw2hc
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Old 04-27-2015, 03:54 PM
 
Location: London, UK
9,992 posts, read 9,955,938 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snj90 View Post
Whites are native South Africans. South Africa was built by whites. Whites were in South Africa prior to the ancestors of most black South Africans.
Whites are NOT native South Africans, Whites do not deserve to be treated so highly for building South Africa (for themselves while side-lining the Natives) and oppressing Native South Africans as soon as they step foot on THEIR land.

Don't twist history and don't insult Black South Africans by disregarding injustices that were put onto them by Europeans.

You are completely ignoring a large part of South African and World history, White people are not innocent and they didn't build South Africa to create a paradise for all Human-beings... only for White people.

What's happening in SA is revenge for what White people from a foreign land did to them for so many years, I don't agree with it and believe this isn't the answer but you must understand why this is happening.

I'm fed up of your attitude that White people are somehow victims and gave the world so much, they raped this world over no other group of people have killed more, raped more and discriminated against so many people as Europeans this isn't propaganda, this isn't an attack onto you, this is an attack onto White people who have a warped mindset of the world and the ones who make excuses or trivialise what their ancestors did.
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