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Old 04-28-2015, 08:59 AM
 
Location: London, UK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dowsieboi View Post
So in your current opinion do you feel there are still only injustices towards black South Africans? Or would you agree that white South Africans are also facing injustices in this current time?

(Just to be clear, I'm not attacking you and your opinion. Just want to understand where you're coming from and what your opinion actually is)
My opinion is the South African government should have equality for all as their goal punishes White People in SA for mistakes of what some of their peers did isn't right or justified. But as I said before I understand why they're doing it and I would have predicted it.

I feel Black South Africans are still facing injustice I doubt racism towards Blacks has died but I feel White People in SA are facing a backlash - like a revenge retaliation. Don't retaliate move on and educate

Maybe I have a bias to always take Black People's (actually I am I'd admit that) but I want equality for all.
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Old 04-28-2015, 01:57 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P London View Post
My opinion is the South African government should have equality for all as their goal punishes White People in SA for mistakes of what some of their peers did isn't right or justified. But as I said before I understand why they're doing it and I would have predicted it.

I feel Black South Africans are still facing injustice I doubt racism towards Blacks has died but I feel White People in SA are facing a backlash - like a revenge retaliation. Don't retaliate move on and educate

Maybe I have a bias to always take Black People's (actually I am I'd admit that) but I want equality for all.
I see. And I'll agree that yes, a large portion of black South Africans are still facing the injustice brought on them by Apartheid. As I mentioned in another thread though, I agree with the concept that balance needs to happen but I don't agree with how the government is currently trying to implement it. This country is going to struggle more and more to move forward and it's unbelievably frustrating to watch and be a part of.
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Old 04-30-2015, 12:03 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dowsieboi View Post
It's complicated unfortunately. Technically the DA are the official opposition but they are perceived as a white party.. It's unbelievably frustrating to say the least.

Don't know why you have such a hard time understanding why most blacks still will not trust a white dominated political entity, no matter how bad the post Mandela ANC might be. Basically any black over 40 will have vivid memories of life under apartheid, even if whites are too embarrassed to remember it. And the legacy of apartheid still defines loads about what South Africa is.

The DA will get no where until it stops being seen as a "white" party.

BTW if people are so desperate to sell their votes for a parcel of food or a T shirt, it isn't only the ANC which can do this.

And face it. While the ANC weren't the only people who fought to end apartheid, they were central to that task and did much to educate the rest of the world abut South Africa. Mandela was a powerful symbol of the struggle.
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Old 04-30-2015, 12:08 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snj90 View Post
Whites are native South Africans. South Africa was built by whites. Whites were in South Africa prior to the ancestors of most black South Africans.

I know they fed you this nonsense in school but it is a lie. Khoisans are indigenous to South Africa, and the Bantu groups arrived in much of South Africa long before the Europeans. In fact when the Boers march north to escape British rule they encountered Africans who had been living there for generations.

The fact that these groups mightn't have been present in the Cape region is irrelevant. They dominated lands to the east and the north east of the Cape, and maybe weren't interested in crossing the deserts to get there.

Now the whole argument about who belongs to a place more is nonsense. History is history, and prior to the arrivals of the Europeans the various African groups fought amongst themselves.

So every one who has descended from peoples who were born in South Africa is a South Africa. It doesn't belong to you any more than it does to the blacks, and you are as South African as they are.
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Old 04-30-2015, 12:18 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dowsieboi View Post
So in your current opinion do you feel there are still only injustices towards black South Africans? Or would you agree that white South Africans are also facing injustices in this current time?

(Just to be clear, I'm not attacking you and your opinion. Just want to understand where you're coming from and what your opinion actually is)

While it might be true that a segment of white South Africans might well face injustice, given the distortion of apartheid why the shock?

Indeed what has surprised most people of South Africa is how little revenge has been directed against the whites. Indeed we have seen more violence directed against other black Africans.

Most white South Africans are much better off than the average black South Africans, and are still well positioned to protect their socio economic position, even if one occasion, they must make some "concession" to the emerging black elites.

The irony is that much of the poverty among white South Africans might be because the system of white privilege deprived some of them of the incentive of having to obtain the levels of skill and education that they would need to survive in a system where blacks weren't completely marginalized. They didn't have to compete, and now that they do, they lack the skills.

I seriously don't know why their plight is seen as any worse than that of the majority of black South Africans, who have suffered a much more damaging legacy.
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Old 04-30-2015, 01:20 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
Don't know why you have such a hard time understanding why most blacks still will not trust a white dominated political entity, no matter how bad the post Mandela ANC might be. Basically any black over 40 will have vivid memories of life under apartheid, even if whites are too embarrassed to remember it. And the legacy of apartheid still defines loads about what South Africa is.

The DA will get no where until it stops being seen as a "white" party.

BTW if people are so desperate to sell their votes for a parcel of food or a T shirt, it isn't only the ANC which can do this.

And face it. While the ANC weren't the only people who fought to end apartheid, they were central to that task and did much to educate the rest of the world abut South Africa. Mandela was a powerful symbol of the struggle.
I don't have a hard time understanding the mentality behind it. Just because I understand it, doesn't make it any less frustrating to see your country ripping itself apart from the inside.

Quote:
The DA will get no where until it stops being seen as a "white" party.
Agreed. But like I said in my post, they're screwed either way. If Mmusi becomes leader then they get grief for using a black person as window dressing. If a white person becomes leader then they get grief for be a white party. The younger generation seem too uninterested to make a change, as shown by their lack of participation in the last election. Again, more frustration.

Quote:
BTW if people are so desperate to sell their votes for a parcel of food or a T shirt, it isn't only the ANC which can do this.
This is 1 of the reasons I wouldn't vote for the ANC. If the other parties had to sink to this level then that makes them no better than the ANC?

Quote:
The irony is that much of the poverty among white South Africans might be because the system of white privilege deprived some of them of the incentive of having to obtain the levels of skill and education that they would need to survive in a system where blacks weren't completely marginalized. They didn't have to compete, and now that they do, they lack the skills.

I seriously don't know why their plight is seen as any worse than that of the majority of black South Africans, who have suffered a much more damaging legacy.
Unfortunately I don't know why or how the majority of the white South Africans ended up in poverty. Maybe they lacked skills, maybe they lacked opportunities, maybe they made bad decisions and messed up their own life. My complaints/opinions aren't that it's worse for 1 side than the other. It's always been rooted in the implementation and the long term effects.

Easy example - Very recently the court made a ruling that changed a dead person's will which was providing bursaries for whites only. Firstly while I agree that we need to be handling out bursaries to all equally, I don't like the idea that this just sets more precedent. What if 1 day I leave all my money to my kids and the court just decides they can now change anyone's will and distribute to whoever they want? More importantly though the court has ruled to ban whites only bursaries and yet there is no issue with blacks only bursaries? What is that saying? Should bursaries not go to anyone who was actually disadvantaged and who actually needs it and not just be a product of the colour of your skin? The point of all of this is to help bring everyone who was left in poverty back into society by educating them and allowing them to contribute to the country. The fact that they are majority black should be irrelevant. By continuing to focus on race we are dooming ourselves to repeat history eventually.

Last edited by dowsieboi; 04-30-2015 at 01:31 AM..
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Old 04-30-2015, 07:15 AM
 
2,816 posts, read 5,384,690 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AuburnAL View Post
Left behind, and many that aren't are being killed.
Some people only pretend to care about poverty when it suits their racism. I wouldn't worry though, whites are much richer than blacks in South Africa.

Your user name is hardly surprising, mind.
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Old 05-01-2015, 11:06 PM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,927,333 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dowsieboi View Post
I The point of all of this is to help bring everyone who was left in poverty back into society by educating them and allowing them to contribute to the country. The fact that they are majority black should be irrelevant. By continuing to focus on race we are dooming ourselves to repeat history eventually.

Tough call.

1. South Africa does have a not that distant legacy of bigotry which pretty much influences lots of what goes on today, so "white only" does have a bad connotation.

2. Given that there is now an emerging, and at times relatively affluent black elite it becomes more difficult to justify assistance based purely on race.

3. It becomes easy to justify why aid might be given based on combinations of race, class and geography. I suspect even today that the black poor, even in urban areas, have a tougher time of it than do the white poor.

So I agree that an exclusive focus on race is increasingly no longer appropriate, but then to pretend as if race doesn't heavily influence outcomes in South Africa is also not honest. The USA also has a similar legacy, even though the most brutish era ended a generation before South Africa's. However South Africa's black elites are more powerful than those in the USA, which partially offsets this.
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Old 05-02-2015, 03:01 AM
 
2,816 posts, read 5,384,690 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
I suspect even today that the black poor, even in urban areas, have a tougher time of it than do the white poor.
You can be sure there are no white shanty towns in South Africa.
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Old 05-05-2015, 12:15 AM
 
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During apartheid hundreds of thousands came to South Africa for the jobs...

If it wasn't for whites and apartheid I would bet South Africa would not be the economic power on the continent it is today.
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