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Old 05-05-2015, 06:11 PM
 
3,806 posts, read 5,204,700 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Perfect Stranger View Post
Some people only pretend to care about poverty when it suits their racism. I wouldn't worry though, whites are much richer than blacks in South Africa.

Your user name is hardly surprising, mind.
What did I say that was racist?
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Old 05-05-2015, 06:41 PM
 
Location: South Jersey
13,362 posts, read 7,036,631 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Perfect Stranger View Post
Some people only pretend to care about poverty when it suits their racism. I wouldn't worry though, whites are much richer than blacks in South Africa.

Your user name is hardly surprising, mind.
And what do you call black people who care first and foremost about the well-being of members of their own race? Take, for example, rioters in Baltimore putting signs on black-owned business to identify them as such and ward off destruction of those businesses. Every race looks out for their own first. For many, this involves the identification with a collective struggle against perceived wrongs committed by whites. But it doesn't matter what the cause is. It is what it is. And it's about time whites started looking out for one another, just as other races do.

One of the most fundamental human drives is the sense of belonging, of fitting into a collective identity whose ingroup members naturally enjoy fellowship amongst themselves. All races and ethnic groups have this on some basic level, but only whites are forbidden to have this. There are benefits to this collective mentality; humans are not as naturally individualistic as some would want you to believe. Nor are we naturally prone to universalism. Thus if given the choice between universalism and individualism, many opt for the latter because the former is so unnatural. But there are real, individual benefits that can be derived by rejecting this false dichotomy. Racial identity is good for you psychologically:

Racial identity tied to happiness, study finds -- ScienceDaily

The study looks at racial pride in African Americans, but of course, this can be easily applied to whites, as well. So, it would seem to me that the ones who are truly themselves full of racial hatred are those who would like to deny whites the same sense of identity that other races enjoy unreservedly.
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Old 05-06-2015, 04:58 AM
 
Location: Baltimore
683 posts, read 734,565 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snj90 View Post
And what do you call black people who care first and foremost about the well-being of members of their own race? Take, for example, rioters in Baltimore putting signs on black-owned business to identify them as such and ward off destruction of those businesses. Every race looks out for their own first.
Well that is subjective saying that black-owned business put up signs is the same as saying the white-owned business that put up plywood over the windows to ward off destruction during the riot. Lastly, every race looks out for their own first that couldn't be used in Baltimore or the country considering black on black crime, and the Mary Harvin Center lead by black ministerial leaders to provide mortgage assistance, and housing to seniors for the African American community in that neighborhood that was burned to the ground by black rioters while it was under construction. There is no race looking out for their own first unless your a Nazi, because we all stab each other in the back no matter what color, religion you are. That's just human nature.
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Old 05-06-2015, 02:02 PM
 
Location: South Jersey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Northernest Southernest C View Post
Well that is subjective saying that black-owned business put up signs is the same as saying the white-owned business that put up plywood over the windows to ward off destruction during the riot.
No, it isn't. What does plywood have to do with race? On the other hand, identifying a business as black-owned so as to prevent its destruction has everything to do with race. If they had stuck a sign on there saying "white-owned business," it would probably be the first one destroyed. You're helping me prove my point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Northernest Southernest C View Post
Lastly, every race looks out for their own first that couldn't be used in Baltimore or the country considering black on black crime, and the Mary Harvin Center lead by black ministerial leaders to provide mortgage assistance, and housing to seniors for the African American community in that neighborhood that was burned to the ground by black rioters while it was under construction.
It's, of course, worthwhile to point out that black-on-black crimes go against the ethos of racial self-interests. However, for the purpose of this discussion, what blacks do that's harmful to their own interests is irrelevant. It's they actions they can take to advance their own collective interests that are relevant because that's a prerogative that's seen as belonging to every race but whites. It's not just blacks who are able to do this, but practically all races and ethnic groups except whites. Most races or ethnic groups look out for their own first. If we were talking about, say, the descendents of Chinese conquerors, I doubt the Chinese would think twice before looking out first for their own brethren abroad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Northernest Southernest C View Post
There is no race looking out for their own first unless your a Nazi, because we all stab each other in the back no matter what color, religion you are. That's just human nature.
That's symptomatic of individualism. Collectivism tends to discourage backstabbing and tends to promote cohesiveness, harmony, and collective self-interests. Collective societies do not advance with excessive backstabbing.
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Old 05-06-2015, 08:08 PM
 
Location: Baltimore
683 posts, read 734,565 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snj90 View Post
No, it isn't. What does plywood have to do with race? That is the point everything is not about race weather you put up a sign or plywood they both are intended for the same purpose which is for your business to not get broken into. At the end of the day whether it was a black or white owned business and your conclusion for races looking out for themselves than why did the very same people destroy the very own businesses in the community that served those residents of that specific demographic? Fire is Fire, Ashes to Ashes, and Dust to Dust everything burns, bleeds, breathes the same.

On the other hand, identifying a business as black-owned so as to prevent its destruction has everything to do with race. If they had stuck a sign on there saying "white-owned business," it would probably be the first one destroyed. You're helping me prove my point. As I pointed out black businesses were harmed also not just white counter to your belief or what you might have seen through the media via CNN, online, newspaper. Cars other than Baltimore police as well as a house burned not knowing who the owners were etc whether intentional or not. Mondawmin Mall that employ a majority of the African Americans in the community was looted as well. Point is they didn't care about what or who they harmed they were just out to cause trouble. I'm not helping you to prove your point at all if that's how you interpret it.

It's, of course, worthwhile to point out that black-on-black crimes go against the ethos of racial self-interests. However, for the purpose of this discussion, what blacks do that's harmful to their own interests is irrelevant. It's not irrelevant because it counter argue your point your trying to make. This is something that's very relevant black on black crime exists. What is irrelevant is what I deleted out of your original post to this response. For a government filled with African American leaders have they looked out for African Americans who are poor more than they would a white person who is poor? If they did show any kind of favoritism toward one race over the other we wouldn't be having this discussion. Its fair to say that in Baltimore's case there's a quality to invest in more areas that are actually white over black not the other way around no matter who is making the calls. I'm not saying people don't look out for one another but to say people would rather help someone of the own race is just radical and opinionated. Not everyone thinks that way.

Collective societies do not advance with excessive backstabbing. Exactly which is why inner cities are in the state they are in today lost of trust in correctional officers, failed political promises all effects of backstabbing.
.

Last edited by Northernest Southernest C; 05-06-2015 at 08:41 PM..
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Old 05-07-2015, 03:35 PM
 
Location: South Jersey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Northernest Southernest C View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by snj90
No, it isn't. What does plywood have to do with race? That is the point everything is not about race weather you put up a sign or plywood they both are intended for the same purpose which is for your business to not get broken into. At the end of the day whether it was a black or white owned business and your conclusion for races looking out for themselves than why did the very same people destroy the very own businesses in the community that served those residents of that specific demographic? Fire is Fire, Ashes to Ashes, and Dust to Dust everything burns, bleeds, breathes the same.
You're speaking from the business owners' perspective, whereas I'm approaching this from the rioters' perspective. From their perspective, it is clearly counterproductive to their goals to destroy black-owned businesses. However, while many folks think the riots themselves are counterproductive, many black radicals think otherwise, thus the largely black rioters can be seen as advancing their racial interests. It doesn't matter whether you think the riots are counterproductive or not. To be fair, I'm sure plenty are just criminals who don't have any particular ideological affiliation but are just in it purely for their own perceived self-interest. However, it would be a mistake to point to the Baltimore riots as an example of blacks stabbing their own race in the back because, like I said, there are plenty who see it as a means to an end and as a racial struggle. Even if there is some collateral damage, some think it will bring about desired changes. I'm not saying they're right, of course, even from their perspective, but it does back up my point that the black community tends to fight for their own self-interests.

Quote:
It's not irrelevant because it counter argue your point your trying to make. This is something that's very relevant black on black crime exists.
Again, even if racial favoritism is essentially offset by intraracial backstabbing (e.g., black-on-black crime), we're talking about the very existence and nature of the former, since I'm talking about the double standard that exists. Whites are not allowed to show any solidarity amongst themselves, while for all other races it's basically acceptable to do so, if not encouraged.

Quote:
For a government filled with African American leaders have they looked out for African Americans who are poor more than they would a white person who is poor?
What do you have to say for affirmative action policies? Are they not an example of one race advancing their own interests at another's expense?

Quote:
I'm not saying people don't look out for one another but to say people would rather help someone of the own race is just radical and opinionated. Not everyone thinks that way.
Then what about organizations such as the NAACP, La Raza, the United Negro College Fund, etc? Black people have "black heroes" such as MLK, Malcolm X, etc. Who are our explicitly white heroes?
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Old 05-07-2015, 10:08 PM
 
Location: Baltimore
683 posts, read 734,565 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snj90 View Post
You're speaking from the business owners' perspective, whereas I'm approaching this from the rioters' perspective. From their perspective, it is clearly counterproductive to their goals to destroy black-owned businesses. However, while many folks think the riots themselves are counterproductive, many black radicals think otherwise, thus the largely black rioters can be seen as advancing their racial interests. It doesn't matter whether you think the riots are counterproductive or not. To be fair, I'm sure plenty are just criminals who don't have any particular ideological affiliation but are just in it purely for their own perceived self-interest. However, it would be a mistake to point to the Baltimore riots as an example of blacks stabbing their own race in the back because, like I said, there are plenty who see it as a means to an end and as a racial struggle. Even if there is some collateral damage, some think it will bring about desired changes. That's where your wrong history even shows the lasting effects of the 68' riot that are prevalent to this day and they occurred for the same reasons "as a means to an end and as a racial struggle." Like I said at the end of the day it always come back to stab you in the back intentional or not.
I'm not saying they're right, of course, even from their perspective, but it does back up my point that the black community tends to fight for their own self-interests.
I'm not saying that people don't fight for what they believe in. I'm simply saying as a race I don't think a specific group of people intentionally do it for themselves. Look at the fight for civil rights which was largely a black movement for freedom. However, in Martin Luther King's I Have A Dream speech he talked about "all of God's children, black men and white men, Jews and Gentiles, Protestants and Catholics." This opened doors for everybody who were minorities/women Hispanic, Asian, Black to vote, have mortgages, integration, etc.

Then what about organizations such as the NAACP, La Raza, the United Negro College Fund, etc? Black people have "black heroes" such as MLK, Malcolm X, etc. Who are our explicitly white heroes?
You do realize what all these have in common to fill a void in discrimination as a direct result of civil rights not because its a race thing but to establish equal ground with the white majority in the nation. Also what about organizations such as, TMCF (Thurgood Marshall College Fund) who are representative of students of all colors and nationalities.

Ok and black people also have "white heroes" to such as JFK, Abraham Lincoln, Lyndon Johnson so I don't know what that was supposed to mean.
.
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Old 05-08-2015, 04:49 PM
 
Location: South Jersey
13,362 posts, read 7,036,631 times
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Quote:
That's where your wrong history even shows the lasting effects of the 68' riot that are prevalent to this day and they occurred for the same reasons "as a means to an end and as a racial struggle." Like I said at the end of the day it always come back to stab you in the back intentional or not
Again, I'm not debating the merits of race rioting. It's irrelevant to my point. My point remains that blacks are able to organize politically and advocate for their own racial self-interests. It's completely irrelevant to my point whether some of their efforts are counterproductive or not. I don't know why I need to keep saying this.

Quote:
I'm not saying that people don't fight for what they believe in. I'm simply saying as a race I don't think a specific group of people intentionally do it for themselves. Look at the fight for civil rights which was largely a black movement for freedom. However, in Martin Luther King's I Have A Dream speech he talked about "all of God's children, black men and white men, Jews and Gentiles, Protestants and Catholics." This opened doors for everybody who were minorities/women Hispanic, Asian, Black to vote, have mortgages, integration, etc.
It just so happens those policies are beneficial to blacks. MLK is not the be all and end all as far as black leaders are concerned. In fact, there are black radicals who think MLK was too passive in his approach. Regardless of any such disagreements, what they share is a common concern for the well-being of blacks. Maybe to some extent they sympathize with other nonwhites, but if their best interests were ever at odds, the Asians, or Hispanics, or whoever, would be on the side of their own people and blacks would still be on their own race's side. Most blacks probably think massive immigration to the US is a good thing because it decreases the percentage of whites. But it can have harmful effects for blacks as well, such as immigrants driving down wages for everyone.

Quote:
You do realize what all these have in common to fill a void in discrimination as a direct result of civil rights not because its a race thing but to establish equal ground with the white majority in the nation. Also what about organizations such as, TMCF (Thurgood Marshall College Fund) who are representative of students of all colors and nationalities.
See my comments above. It makes sense for, say, blacks to work with Hispanics because both can derive benefits from things such as the example you provided. It remains a zero-sum game, however, since those gains have to come at another's expense. Usually, this is at the expense of whites. Affirmative action is just another way that blacks and other minorities advance their own interests. You cannot have a system of racial preference (such as affirmative action) that only confers benefits and doesn't create disadvantages for others. (Whites are the "others," but oftentimes Asians are included in that since they are overrepresented at many universities, for example, and thus excluded from any affirmative action benefits.)

Quote:
Ok and black people also have "white heroes" to such as JFK, Abraham Lincoln, Lyndon Johnson so I don't know what that was supposed to mean
I was referring to (explicitly) white heroes for white people. That's totally verboten. Any historical figures that may be appropriate for this distinction are not allowed to be thought of in this manner, whereas figures such as MLK and Malcolm X can be thought of by black people as explicitly black heroes.
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Old 05-09-2015, 03:39 AM
 
1,689 posts, read 2,227,969 times
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SNJ sounds like those New jersey people that have NEVER left his state!!

so much prejudice, preconceived notions, stereotypes, racial labeling!!

I think poor people in general are being left behind!
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Old 05-09-2015, 07:50 AM
 
476 posts, read 467,830 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LaurenFromTN View Post
During apartheid hundreds of thousands came to South Africa for the jobs...

If it wasn't for whites and apartheid I would bet South Africa would not be the economic power on the continent it is today.
South Africa is not an economic power. It's GDP per capita is lower than the average GDP per capita of third world countries.
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