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Old 05-05-2015, 12:25 AM
 
907 posts, read 558,115 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LaurenFromTN View Post
Was this written in books from the African tribes? How do you know this?
I was speaking in generalities, which is probably flawed. Like was mentioned, lots of different types of slavery existed...but thats the point. There was one main type of African-Euro slavery...birthright slavery.

Not sure how I know, I guess just stories that were passed down.
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Old 05-05-2015, 08:50 AM
 
Location: Jamestown, NY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michigantown View Post
Should France , Spain and Germany split up too. Most Africans are happy with there borders by now. Tribes stunt growth.
I think this is what the OP is not understanding. The borders of today's nation states are often more or less "artificial" in that nations today frequently include multiple ethnic groups. Should the Basques in Spain and France have their own separate country? Would it even be viable? What about the Chechans? Or the Kurds?

Having a nation based on an ethnic identity might even be worse than having one based on "artificial" borders. Consider how Serbia conducted "ethnic cleansing" in the Balkans in the 1990s ... "tribalism" isn't just an "African" problem; it happens in lots of places around the world.
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Old 05-05-2015, 09:17 AM
 
Location: Rainy Ulster.
264 posts, read 206,051 times
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It didnt work out so well in Rwanda in recent times, did it.
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Old 05-05-2015, 12:30 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gumisgood View Post
Europeans come and divide the land into countries that disregard tribal considerations, and Africans go along with it. Yet, some of these tribes are ancient...from the 11th centuary. Europeans disrupt the process for 100 years and all of a sudden we are supposed to forget our tribes? Our ancestors would be ashamed. They died and killed for us to even be here, it's disrespectful to your ancestors to forsake them.

Instead of doing away with the nation states, we should incorporate them into our system of governance. How that would work exactly, I am not sure. You tell me. But, leave the Europeans to rule themselves how they wish, we have to do what works for us. We have our system, why are we abondoning it?

So, when do we go back to our natural tribal system?
Yes, our ancestors killed EACH OTHER "for us to be here". Let us not fall for the foolish practice of revering ancestors to a fault. Most were backward fools and we ought to recognize that modern people are wiser and better than those of earlier centuries, not the other way around. Most of what humanity can learn from our ancestors is what not to do.

And what the hell does "we have to do what works for us" mean? Clearly, tribal/ethnic separation and feudalism did NOT work for Africans, as evidenced by the fact that it is one of the biggest weaknesses that allowed their conquering by Europeans, a group of people that had already greatly consolidated their distinct ancient tribal lines and created modern nation states structures. This modern trait of theirs is in fact one of the strengths that allowed them to conquer other peoples around the world.
Formerly colonized peoples around the world would be wise to avoid the temptation to look backward with romanticized notions and instead look forward. If there are traits that made your former enemies strong, then learn to adopt this trait for yourself with no psychological aversion to it due to its origin from a source you may resent or dislike.

Concern yourself with what your descendants will think of you, not your dead ancestors.
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Old 05-05-2015, 12:53 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,663 posts, read 74,423,177 times
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Never. Any attempt to do so would immediately trigger dozens of genocidal partitions and border acrimony. It would be like 1949 India or 1990s Yugoslavia in scattered microcosms.

Multi-tribalism is not a relevant factor in the failure of any African country to develop economically, so changing borders would not mitigate poverty.
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Old 05-05-2015, 01:00 PM
 
Location: Rainy Ulster.
264 posts, read 206,051 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheArchitect View Post
Yes, our ancestors killed EACH OTHER "for us to be here". Let us not fall for the foolish practice of revering ancestors to a fault. Most were backward fools and we ought to recognize that modern people are wiser and better than those of earlier centuries, not the other way around. Most of what humanity can learn from our ancestors is what not to do.

And what the hell does "we have to do what works for us" mean? Clearly, tribal/ethnic separation and feudalism did NOT work for Africans, as evidenced by the fact that it is one of the biggest weaknesses that allowed their conquering by Europeans, a group of people that had already greatly consolidated their distinct ancient tribal lines and created modern nation states structures. This modern trait of theirs is in fact one of the strengths that allowed them to conquer other peoples around the world.
Formerly colonized peoples around the world would be wise to avoid the temptation to look backward with romanticized notions and instead look forward. If there are traits that made your former enemies strong, then learn to adopt this trait for yourself with no psychological aversion to it due to its origin from a source you may resent or dislike.

Concern yourself with what your descendants will think of you, not your dead ancestors.
I wouldnt be too confident of the assertion that I've italicised in bold.
If there is a difference then its the relative lack of opportunity and when that arises the scope, scale and savagery can be astonishing.
We are no different from the earliest hunter gatherer, only in method and means.

Last edited by BarringtonNI; 05-05-2015 at 01:09 PM..
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Old 05-05-2015, 01:07 PM
 
Location: Rainy Ulster.
264 posts, read 206,051 times
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Double post. Sorry
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Old 05-05-2015, 02:07 PM
 
28 posts, read 22,987 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gumisgood View Post
I was speaking in generalities, which is probably flawed. Like was mentioned, lots of different types of slavery existed...but thats the point. There was one main type of African-Euro slavery...birthright slavery.

Not sure how I know, I guess just stories that were passed down.
So your source is 'stories passed down'?
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Old 05-05-2015, 03:41 PM
 
907 posts, read 558,115 times
Reputation: 571
The general consensus is that I'm way off it. Haha, thats fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LaurenFromTN View Post
So your source is 'stories passed down'?
I mean, if you want me to cite sources...I would be able to. But, I'm not trying to educate, just discuss. Google something like "africa slavery history" and read. Its actually fascinating...you'd find all sorts of systems and set ups. We all know about slavery in the West, but slavery was a worldwide phenomenon...still is, actually. There exist slaves today. The West didnt have a monopoly on it by any means.
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Old 05-05-2015, 04:24 PM
 
Location: Jamestown, NY
7,841 posts, read 7,352,533 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheArchitect View Post
Yes, our ancestors killed EACH OTHER "for us to be here". Let us not fall for the foolish practice of revering ancestors to a fault. Most were backward fools and we ought to recognize that modern people are wiser and better than those of earlier centuries, not the other way around. Most of what humanity can learn from our ancestors is what not to do.

And what the hell does "we have to do what works for us" mean? Clearly, tribal/ethnic separation and feudalism did NOT work for Africans, as evidenced by the fact that it is one of the biggest weaknesses that allowed their conquering by Europeans, a group of people that had already greatly consolidated their distinct ancient tribal lines and created modern nation states structures. This modern trait of theirs is in fact one of the strengths that allowed them to conquer other peoples around the world.
Formerly colonized peoples around the world would be wise to avoid the temptation to look backward with romanticized notions and instead look forward. If there are traits that made your former enemies strong, then learn to adopt this trait for yourself with no psychological aversion to it due to its origin from a source you may resent or dislike.

Concern yourself with what your descendants will think of you, not your dead ancestors.
What an excellent post!!! I totally agree!
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