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Old 07-14-2015, 06:22 PM
 
Location: Durham, North Carolina
774 posts, read 1,616,006 times
Reputation: 1478

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In today's world of "Designed Consent" .... where "Original Thought" no longer exist, we also have to factor in the reality that even governments employ "Trolls" to disrupt discussion and cooperation.

Avoiding the most disruptive comments and ignoring some of the more blatantly racist, I will address this one because I've seen similar comments. I'm not even going to directly comment to the person who posted this because I don't want it to sound like I'm "attacking someone rather than responding to the issues they bring up. So let's just take a nibble on this one shall we?

Quote:
"They have no agenda. The US is just trying to spread gay rights around the world so that it can look like moral champions. Think of it as another American "spread democracy and free market capitalism" evangelism. This has been an annoying cornerstone of American foreign policy since Wilson even though most American elites don't really believe it and are willing to ignore it if it suits their interests."
Logic.
We must view this from a standpoint of both LOGIC and science.

My original assertion is that Africa is losing BILLIONS due to countries being persuaded to be, "Anti-Gay."
((LOL)) ... sorry... but I have to chuckle a bit on this one....

Okay... so the issue is money.
What attracts it... and what pushes it away from you.
Game.
Do you have "game" ... or not? Can you out-think the flim-flam or remain victim to it?

Harvard Business School has long maintained the stance that if you lack the inner quality of being a hustler (and they'll spell it out to you), then no matter how many degrees you have... you will never be able to make money.

Logic.
If America is the baddest due on the planet when it comes to making money... then wouldn't it be LOGICAL for people who don't have enough money to analyze what they do and follow suit?

Generation X and Generation Next ... worldwide ... is up against it.
But there's also a young, arrogant, Hip Hop (corporate) spirit of hypocritical, un-scholarly homophobia afloat. "Divided and Conquered."

The argument that Africa is somehow this bastion of Heterosexuality and the "White Devils" are only trying to spread the disease of homosexuality is not only ignorant ... it's far, FAR from mature and rational discourse. I posted a link to the historical proof contradicting this ... and here it is again [click the title below]:

The idea that African Homosexuality was a colonial import is a myth.

SCIENCE
It's estimated that only 6% to 10% of all human beings are born PURELY either Heterosexual or PURELY Homosexual. It's an issue of Nature Vs. Nurture. Factor in the people who are born Intersexed ... or with ambiguous genitalia and the, "All or Nothing" argument is completely destroyed. The point is... no one can fight what nature does. It just "is" and it's fruitless to argue about it.

Homosexuality as a Cold
Next, we get to the arguments that Africans are simply trying to keep themselves "Pure" by outlawing homosexuality or bisexuality or criminalizing a female born with too many aspects of maleness and males who are too feminine to make their "PURE" buddies... um... comfortable, is childish, and illogical. You can't "catch" sexuality like you catch a cold.

Someone else mentioned that a tourist could travel to an African country and go on Safari and look at the animals and eat the food and take boat rides ... all without MENTIONING their sexuality.

WHAT IS HOMOPHOBIA???
The FEAR of homosexuality! What sane person on earth wants to weaken themselves (or others) with such a silly fear? Verbal speech is only 30% of human communication. People don't need to talk... we pick up signals from each other. So here comes a naive "straight" tourist with fat pockets to a country that controls by oppressing its populace. There's ALWAYS some jealous, envious, mean-spirited person waiting to throw mud. Who do you think wants to expose themselves to that???

(There are plenty of reasons ... but we won't mention personalty disorders nor how repression works within the human psyche for reasons of feeding the trolls.)

GAME!
It's NOT just "America." If you see the richest countries worldwide putting out flags and printing brochures and doing studies to ATTRACT tourist ... and some of the poorest being persuaded to discourage them, you have to think about what is causing this foolishness.

MONEY... get your MONEY.
Japan, Germany, England, BRAZIL, Thailand, France, Argentina, Canada, Mexico, Finland, Puerto Rico, Australia, Peru, and Panama .... and all the individual states within those nations trying as hard as they can to fill their hotels, condos, airports and resorts with LGBT travelers ... it should make even the thickest, most unbalanced mind begin to see the light.

The United States has even lost ... dropped ... been out-competed in recent years and in 2013 dropped from Number ONE! to Number Three for international LGBT travel. (Each of you has the same internet at your fingertips that I have ... look it up.)

Ain't nobody asking or even implying that you need to divorce your wife and get in bed with some guy named Butch... but when most of your population is still living in mud and straw houses, the "Have's" who have any sense, need to consider what's best for ALL or most of their country and not just their narcissistic egos.

Boko Haram
Somebody even went so far as to use this group of MURDEROUS, raping, kidnapping, cowardly, Imbeciles as some kind of standard!
Verse (9:101) of the Quran clearly says it:
Quote:
"And from among those who are round about you of the dwellers of the desert there are hypocrites, and from among the people of Medina (also); they are stubborn in hypocrisy; you do not know them; We know them; We will chastise them twice then shall they be turned back to a grievous chastisement."
These are people who need to be beat slowly with a hammer ... not idealized and thought of as role models for life in the 21st Century!

Islam and the Arab world is FULL of homosexual activity!
  1. "Women are for babies but men are for pleasure."
  2. Iran is a hotbed (literally) for not only heroin, but Transsexual operations
  3. Afghanistan and Pakistan LOVES their Bacha Bazi boys... young, little boys they kidnap or buy from poor families, then dress up like woman and forced to dance then have sex with men. REALLY???
... look it up.

Indonesia and Malaysia ... Islamic nations who love their transvestites. HYPOCRISY.
There IS no "purity."
Only misguided attempts at FAKE purity that only young people and fools embrace.

STOP.. stop basing a financial future on lies.
Remember that government leaders and Oligarchs all read Plato's, "Republic" ... on how to govern people. "Divide and Conquer." If I control any part of you... especially your fears... then I CONTROL YOU.

And never forget Jimmy Carter's, "National Security Memorandum 46" ...
That authorizes ALL government agencies to disrupt Africans around the world from doing business together.

M-O-N-E-Y
Get some.
I know you WANT some. (LOL)
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Old 08-12-2015, 07:30 PM
 
10 posts, read 14,254 times
Reputation: 11
As a gay, black American woman in my late 20s, I must say that I am shocked and disturbed at the "corrective rape" practice that I've read about in South Africa. I was considering moving there within the next year for work, but I am really afraid for my safety and livelihood. It would be easy for me to conceal my sexuality because I have a feminine appearance, but I have no desire to do that. I would like to meet with other LGBT women (expats and locals), and my fear is that I would be targeted due to my sexuality.

Can someone please speak to the issue of safety or lack thereof for gay/lesbian women of color in South Africa?
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Old 08-13-2015, 10:51 PM
 
Location: BC Canada
831 posts, read 934,304 times
Reputation: 1119
Of course Africa is losing out on billions of dollars due to their homophobia.

Gays, who travel a lot and spend a lot while on vacation, would never go to Africa as it's too dangerous. Many gay philanthropists will not step foot in or contribute to African causes. Many straight people will not go to countries that are homophobic because it offends their sense morality, treating gay people as less than full citizens is something most in the West find repugnant. This is not helped by the fact that countries that are homophobic tend to also be very sexist.

Many governments are putting their limited foreign aid dollars to places that respect human rights at the expense of the countries who don't. Tax payers in the West do not want their tax dollars going to homophobic countries or governments. Uganda's homophobia is world renowned while next Rwanda is considerable more tolerant but socially and politically.

Canada cut funding from Uganda and sent it to Rwanda for this reason when Uganda wanted to bring in their death penalty for homosexuality. Our last Minister of Foreign Affairs was gay and in charge of such things and he had the full backing of the government.

Homophobic Africa also loses out on tens of billions in business investment as businesses are very conscious of where they invest their funds. They know that investing in homophobic countries can result in boycotts or bad press in the West which can devastate their bottom line.

Gays tend to have much higher educational attainments than the regular population and make up a vastly disproportionate amount of professionals. As soon as they graduate they flee the country to the benefit of the West leaving Africa short of professionals and have squandered the public money they put into the university system.

I always find it off as the vast majority of Africans think homosexuality is a "western invention" and proof of "western decadence" but then have no problem taking the foreign aid money of such low morality countries or that the first place they flee to when trying to leave Africa for a more prosperous and free life, they always head straight for the West.

Africa's homophobia {and sexism} is costing them dearly.
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Old 08-14-2015, 09:06 AM
Status: "I hate living in Georgia!!" (set 15 days ago)
 
48,235 posts, read 45,519,102 times
Reputation: 15346
It might be costing some countries. I agree. That said, do the countries that are missing out on that investment really care? I ask because of this. I see an attitude of "we'll keep on existing whether you like us or not".
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Old 08-14-2015, 12:20 PM
 
Location: Idaho
4,629 posts, read 4,473,076 times
Reputation: 9060
Quote:
Originally Posted by dowsieboi View Post
The thing about South Africa is it's an amazing place to visit (you can honestly avoid the crime if you're not an idiot). Where it starts to suck is when you stick around to deal with the deeper issues. As a tourist you get to selectively go and choose the best places to visit. As a resident we get to enjoy the mass amounts of corruption and now daily power cuts as our electricity grid slowly falls apart.

Basically, if you can get a chance to visit there really isn't any reason not to. It has so much beauty to offer and I honestly do envy tourists who get to look at the country with a fresh perspective. Whereas I'm sure I probably take a lot of it for granted.
As I approach an age where I look back on my life and the experiences I've had, my two-week working trip to South Africa is one of the highlights of my life. Was based out of Pietersburg, (since renamed to Polokwane, which is translated to "Place of Safety"). What impressed me the most is that everyone was so happy and content with life. We were even invited into the homes of blacks to meet the family and share a meal together. I've made memories that will stay with me till the day I die. And, every one of them have been a positive and uplifting memory. I retire next year and am researching to where I will relocate. South Africa is on the list.
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Old 08-15-2015, 01:22 AM
 
Location: BC Canada
831 posts, read 934,304 times
Reputation: 1119
South Africa is certainly seen as an oasis in Africa's homophobia. The thing that really hurts SA is it's extremely high crime rate.

As far as "we don't care if you like us or not", well I think that's true. Many Africans {and particularly their leaders} try to bolster their own images by playing the "I hate the West" card and homophobia fits into that equation beautifully.

They certainly have the right to dislike the West but what bothers people in the West is that they claim that we are selfish and decadent I want nothing to do with us..........except our money.

Most in the West {or nearly the whole planet for that matter} pay little attention to Africa. Most have simply written the continent off. Most simply view it as a lost cause and one that will terminally be at war with itself, be desperately poor, corrupt, and a human rights wasteland.

Human Rights and economic development go hand in hand and gay rights are a part of that. Until Africa starts to rid itself of the sexism and homophobia that is pervasive in their societies they will never develop.

If they really want democratic countries and Western standard of living then maybe they should try to look at why the West is so developed. They can be offended if they like but it is no coincidence that the most developed countries in the world are also the ones that are the most gay friendly. People who think you can have human rights without gay rights fundamentally does not understand the concept.

Human Rights are a package deal........you either believe in them or you don't. The vast majority of Africans don't and they are paying the political, social, and economic repercussions of their views.
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Old 08-15-2015, 02:29 AM
 
276 posts, read 293,611 times
Reputation: 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by volosong View Post
As I approach an age where I look back on my life and the experiences I've had, my two-week working trip to South Africa is one of the highlights of my life. Was based out of Pietersburg, (since renamed to Polokwane, which is translated to "Place of Safety"). What impressed me the most is that everyone was so happy and content with life. We were even invited into the homes of blacks to meet the family and share a meal together. I've made memories that will stay with me till the day I die. And, every one of them have been a positive and uplifting memory. I retire next year and am researching to where I will relocate. South Africa is on the list.
Out of curiosity how easy or difficult is it to relocate to SA for something like retirement?
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Old 08-15-2015, 07:12 AM
 
56,674 posts, read 80,973,859 times
Reputation: 12530
Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
It might be costing some countries. I agree. That said, do the countries that are missing out on that investment really care? I ask because of this. I see an attitude of "we'll keep on existing whether you like us or not".
^I see this as well, as some countries are probably thinking that they weren't going to get said investment/aid anyway. So, whether they were or weren't homophobic may not make a difference in the eyes of people in particular countries due to other aspects.
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Old 08-15-2015, 08:29 AM
 
452 posts, read 756,018 times
Reputation: 435
Quote:
Originally Posted by mooguy View Post
South Africa is certainly seen as an oasis in Africa's homophobia. The thing that really hurts SA is it's extremely high crime rate.

As far as "we don't care if you like us or not", well I think that's true. Many Africans {and particularly their leaders} try to bolster their own images by playing the "I hate the West" card and homophobia fits into that equation beautifully.

They certainly have the right to dislike the West but what bothers people in the West is that they claim that we are selfish and decadent I want nothing to do with us..........except our money.

Most in the West {or nearly the whole planet for that matter} pay little attention to Africa. Most have simply written the continent off. Most simply view it as a lost cause and one that will terminally be at war with itself, be desperately poor, corrupt, and a human rights wasteland.

Human Rights and economic development go hand in hand and gay rights are a part of that. Until Africa starts to rid itself of the sexism and homophobia that is pervasive in their societies they will never develop.

If they really want democratic countries and Western standard of living then maybe they should try to look at why the West is so developed. They can be offended if they like but it is no coincidence that the most developed countries in the world are also the ones that are the most gay friendly. People who think you can have human rights without gay rights fundamentally does not understand the concept.

Human Rights are a package deal........you either believe in them or you don't. The vast majority of Africans don't and they are paying the political, social, and economic repercussions of their views.
So much stupid and ignorance spewed here in your post. So much.
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Old 08-15-2015, 09:18 PM
 
Location: BC Canada
831 posts, read 934,304 times
Reputation: 1119
Please enlighten me.
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