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Old 07-30-2015, 07:58 AM
 
Location: Minnysoda
8,640 posts, read 8,545,439 times
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Old 07-30-2015, 09:06 AM
 
Location: Fort Collins, USA
1,477 posts, read 2,375,509 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrammasCabin View Post
No, xeric....the difference here is that the lion was senselessly killed so some creep could have another trophy on his wall. If you put that in the same category as food, I assume you are vegan as well as ignorant.

And I"m so sick of that "brings money to the community" excuse for killing.
I'm not saying it was right in this case. I'm just pointing out that the outrage is disproportionate to the act (especially considering that many who are so upset happily purchase dead animals from grocery stores and restaurants for food). As for hunting and revenue, poor countries don't have the luxury of putting the needs of animals above the needs of people.
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Old 07-30-2015, 09:12 AM
 
Location: Macao
15,951 posts, read 36,211,991 times
Reputation: 9493
Quote:
Originally Posted by xeric View Post
I'm not saying it was right in this case. I'm just pointing out that the outrage is disproporiante to the act (especially considering that many who are so upset happily purchase dead animals from grocery stores and restaurants every day). As for hunting and revenue, poor countries don't have the luxury of putting the needs of animals above the needs of people.
Ah...they didn't kill the lion for food. In fact, they just deheaded it, ripped off the lion skin, and tossed the carcass to the side....nothing about that was to feed people.
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Old 07-30-2015, 10:01 AM
 
Location: Fort Collins, USA
1,477 posts, read 2,375,509 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Beer View Post
Ah...they didn't kill the lion for food. In fact, they just deheaded it, ripped off the lion skin, and tossed the carcass to the side....nothing about that was to feed people.
It's a matter of context. There's nothing that stirs up outrage in developed countries quite as effectively as when a charismatic animal that is high up on the food chain is illegally poached. The news media is all over it - it's a ratings bonanza. Meanwhile, the people of Zimbabwe suffer quietly.

And then there is the whole hunting debate. You would think that people who eat meat would be accepting of hunting for food. Any other view is hypocritical. Legal sports hunting is more problematic. While I have no interest in it, I know that many developing countries use it as an incentive to get local people involved in protecting both habitats and animal populations. The amount of money that one big game hunter can bring into a poor area is staggering by local standards. You can still be against this and say it's not worth the price but that's fairly easy when you don't have to struggle to feed your family. The alternative is generally no protection of the land and animals - the local population isn't going to spare a predator who is eating their cattle (or worse) because it is cute.

Illegal big game hunting or poaching (as in this case) is clearly wrong and the perpetrators should be punished.

Last edited by xeric; 07-30-2015 at 10:36 AM..
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Old 07-30-2015, 04:15 PM
 
Location: Under a bridge
2,423 posts, read 3,146,838 times
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Some of my my conservative followers on Twitter keep tweeting this and it's obviously directed to the LIBS/DEMS. I find killing the lion despicable and I do care about Planned Parenthood. People do care about both.

Ahhh, politics.
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Old 07-30-2015, 07:45 PM
 
Location: Macao
15,951 posts, read 36,211,991 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xeric View Post
It's a matter of context. There's nothing that stirs up outrage in developed countries quite as effectively as when a charismatic animal that is high up on the food chain is illegally poached. The news media is all over it - it's a ratings bonanza. Meanwhile, the people of Zimbabwe suffer quietly.

And then there is the whole hunting debate. You would think that people who eat meat would be accepting of hunting for food. Any other view is hypocritical. Legal sports hunting is more problematic. While I have no interest in it, I know that many developing countries use it as an incentive to get local people involved in protecting both habitats and animal populations. The amount of money that one big game hunter can bring into a poor area is staggering by local standards. You can still be against this and say it's not worth the price but that's fairly easy when you don't have to struggle to feed your family. The alternative is generally no protection of the land and animals - the local population isn't going to spare a predator who is eating their cattle (or worse) because it is cute.

Illegal big game hunting or poaching (as in this case) is clearly wrong and the perpetrators should be punished.
Yeah, but for any tourist to visit these national parks, you are talking thousands of dollars per person. Each tourist already is giving tons of money into the local economies. If you want to hike Kilimanjaro, it'll cost you a few thousand dollars in hiring guides and park fees - mandatory. If you want to visit any African national park, same thing. You must hire guides, and you must pay expensive national park entrance fees, again for thousands of dollars.

So, it's not like there isn't money coming in. For an American poacher type to want to shoot and take a head home; it does put money into criminal's pockets, but it isn't of any value to all the many lives centered around guides, park conversation, and all the true cash cow money for the community.
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Old 07-30-2015, 07:56 PM
 
Location: Canada
5,881 posts, read 2,388,977 times
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Yes, ( and should be) many are outraged about the senseless killing of a protected Lion who NOW since baited off "Protected Land" has actually caused the senseless killing of at least 24 cubs ( in Cecil's Pride)..thats as many have already said is POACHING....But the worst of it is..That an already endangered species now have been culled 24 times what back in USA standard's use to keep populations down..Geesh!! These Lions are endangered..???? Other than a Zoo?/ when was the last time anyone ever saw of living proud male Lion with a PRIDE..Meaning father of many females who birth his cubs..I really do nt h=think people in general actually understand wildlife at all??????????

What about endangered don't hunters or people understand..Wipe out anything..and ask after the fact?? Trophy collecting takes precedent above preservation of a species??? I'm sorry what this guy did is unacceptable..and his credibility is in question..He wants to blame other's..But just because he paid $$..He was no dummy..HE knew what his paid baiting poaching local's were going to do..and had no problem with it as long as he got his "Trophy"..It's Ego..and right now he is in hiding..and it isn't because anyone is threatening his life..BUT the LAW IS on his Assets!! LOL
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Old 07-30-2015, 08:03 PM
 
Location: Macao
15,951 posts, read 36,211,991 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyndarn View Post
He wants to blame other's..But just because he paid $$..He was no dummy..HE knew what his paid baiting poaching local's were going to do..and had no problem with it as long as he got his "Trophy"..It's Ego..and right now he is in hiding..and it isn't because anyone is threatening his life..BUT the LAW IS on his Assets!! LOL
The fact it cost him that much, was another clue it was highly RISKY to try to get away with this. The poacher basically knew he was heavily involved in a criminal act.

I wish the media would stop calling him a hunter though. He was clearly a poacher.
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Old 07-30-2015, 08:11 PM
 
Location: Canada
5,881 posts, read 2,388,977 times
Reputation: 5341
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Beer View Post
The fact it cost him that much, was another clue it was highly RISKY to try to get away with this. The poacher basically knew he was heavily involved in a criminal act.

I wish the media would stop calling him a hunter though. He was clearly a poacher.
Why is it that people have disposable income so quick to spend it on something so WRONG..especially after he has already within US been found at fault for killing of wildlife outside of the zone he paid for..he lied to DNR and told fellow hunter's to lie...Why should this rich guy ( more money than brains) escape the laws in whatever country he choses to break THEIR LAWS!!..It's not any secret..that money buys a whole lot..BUT risk is +++ when dealing with risky folks who take your money..to meet your unlawful need/wants....

The locals will be judged ..but this guy is also culpable..he paid those profiteers.and ran away and left them holding the bag...Let's face it..$$ doe's not always get ya out of jail free overtime.....Why is he hiding BTW~~
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Old 07-31-2015, 12:42 AM
 
9,695 posts, read 15,894,765 times
Reputation: 16071
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyndarn View Post
Why is it that people have disposable income so quick to spend it on something so WRONG..especially after he has already within US been found at fault for killing of wildlife outside of the zone he paid for..he lied to DNR and told fellow hunter's to lie...Why should this rich guy ( more money than brains) escape the laws in whatever country he choses to break THEIR LAWS!!..It's not any secret..that money buys a whole lot..BUT risk is +++ when dealing with risky folks who take your money..to meet your unlawful need/wants....

The locals will be judged ..but this guy is also culpable..he paid those profiteers.and ran away and left them holding the bag...Let's face it..$$ doe's not always get ya out of jail free overtime.....Why is he hiding BTW~~



A good point. He not only killed a magnificent animal, he lured the guides into committing a despicable crime. While I firmly believe we are ultimately responsible for our own actions, this guy lured them into it. We don't know how poor/desperate those guides might have been. When you're poor, your priorities change. This "hunter" knew he could escape back to the good ol' USA, and leave the others holding the bag. WTH did he expect to do with his 'trophy" anyways Mount it in his dentist office? Oh, look what I did, I killed da putty cat!
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