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Old 08-22-2015, 01:44 PM
Status: "Then everything change forever..." (set 12 days ago)
 
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Lets not forget that hyphenated identities is more of a USA thing.
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Old 08-22-2015, 01:44 PM
 
Location: Kūkiʻo, HI & Manhattan Beach, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prospectheightsresident View Post
I've heard that, but that seems like a stretch to me, as far as accuracy of data goes. Still, if true, I guess under US tradition and custom, he could legitimately call himself an African American
Actually, the folks at Ancestry.com did a pretty decent job of exploring Obama's maternal lineage. Here are links to his maternal family tree and other supporting documents...
http://c.mfcreative.com/offer/us/oba...tree_final.pdf
http://c.mfcreative.com/offer/us/oba...ancy_final.pdf
http://c.mfcreative.com/offer/us/oba...icle_final.pdf
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Old 08-22-2015, 01:59 PM
 
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Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
Lets not forget that hyphenated identities is more of a USA thing.
So do most of the minorities in the UK (like Indians) identify as English or by whatever country their family came from? They technically overalp.
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Old 08-22-2015, 02:05 PM
Status: "Then everything change forever..." (set 12 days ago)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Lantern400 View Post
I was recently having a discussion with somebody who said that white South Africans who live in the US are African American, because not everybody in Africa is black, and they are from Africa.
No, South Africans that live in the US are Africans, not African-Americans. Their US born and/or raised children would fit the African-American label.

Quote:
That's like calling a person whose family moved from England to the US, but is of South Asian descent, an English American
The people that actually moved from England to the US are simply English. Any offsprings they give birth to or raise in the US are definitely English-American (American-English would be someone who's parents migrated from the US to England).

In England most people have no problem what-so-ever accepting the offspring of Caribbean/African/Indian people as British. That's what they are and they don't even feel the need to hyphenate their identity, they are just British.

Its obvious by looking at certain people that they may not be fully of British stock, but they are British though and that does makes sense.

Quote:
...or calling a black person living in Europe a "German American" or "Italian American" or a "French American". That denies their heritage...
That doesn't deny anything. If they are Americans born in Germany, so they are American-German (even though they are simply German, I don't think people over there hyphenate themselves). The same applies with the French and the Italian, although in Italy there is a tendency among ethnic Italians to not consider non-white Italians as Italians. I think this is more of an issue in northern Italy, but not sure in the south. Anyway, they would be American-Italians.

What does denies the heritage (in the USA) is blanketing African-Americans as black, when in fact many are mixed race.

Quote:
( same with this situation-South Africans are English, German and Dutch), and makes it confusing regarding censuses because their ethnicities then overlap.
There's no overlap because their English/German/Dutch ancestors migrated a long time ago to South Africa. They are simply South African and Africans. Too many generations born and raised there.

Quote:
It doesn't make sense regardless of race-because even the black South Africans in the US descend from one country-their ancestry isn't mixed with ancestors from countless tribes and present-day countries.
I don't know what this has to do with anything, a South African is, well, a South African. And the black ones actually originate from a diverse of tribes. Many others are not even black, but mixed race that over there are identified as coloureds. But at the end of the day, they are all (white, mixed, black, whatever) just South Africans.

Last edited by AntonioR; 08-22-2015 at 02:14 PM..
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Old 08-22-2015, 02:10 PM
Status: "Then everything change forever..." (set 12 days ago)
 
5,168 posts, read 8,019,848 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Lantern400 View Post
So do most of the minorities in the UK (like Indians) identify as English or by whatever country their family came from? They technically overalp.
From my experience, they see themselves as British and most other British people accept them as that. In much of Europe identity is defined more on a cultural basis.

In France a person can be 100% Sub-Saharan charcoal black and if culturally they adopt French ways, they are seen simply as French. In fact, one of the issues France is having with some Muslims doesn't has anything to do with their looks or race and everything to do with their reluctance to culturally become French. Americans may have issues seeing a black as charcoal guy simply as French, but that's more of a US issue due to the racial undercurrent that pemeates much of everything in the US. Many Americans still have a hard time seeing past skin color.
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Old 08-22-2015, 02:36 PM
 
Location: Katy,Texas
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Agreed, Africans of all color who come to America usually identify as African. Sometimes though, those that where born and raised in America identify as American or African American, but it is a small percentage as if they are Nigerian as well as other Africans(only seen Nigerians do this, so don't know for sure) their parents will get on them for "Disowning their culture."
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Old 08-22-2015, 02:55 PM
 
Location: Middle of the Pacific Ocean
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Lantern400 View Post
Why do you doubt that he had slave ancestors on his mother's side?
Simply put, there's just too much guessing in the analysis. See a write up about the work by Ancestry.com here: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/30/us...-suggests.html. Even one of the stronger points, that some of the people that Ancestry.com believe (its only a guess) regarding sub-Saharan African DNA in some of Obama's white DNA cousin matches leaves a lot unanswered/uncertainty. For instance, at the levels Obama's white relatives in question likely share some sub-Saharan African ancestry (it would be very, very slim based on the theory), even Ancestry cautions that such results may very well be white noise and inaccurate. Moving forward, even to the extent that the shared sub-Saharan African ancestry may not come from the same line. Indeed, it could be collateral vs. lateral/direct descendant.

Last edited by prospectheightsresident; 08-22-2015 at 03:04 PM..
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Old 08-22-2015, 02:57 PM
 
Location: Middle of the Pacific Ocean
11,661 posts, read 6,271,423 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonah K View Post
Actually, the folks at Ancestry.com did a pretty decent job of exploring Obama's maternal lineage. Here are links to his maternal family tree and other supporting documents...
http://c.mfcreative.com/offer/us/oba...tree_final.pdf
http://c.mfcreative.com/offer/us/oba...ancy_final.pdf
http://c.mfcreative.com/offer/us/oba...icle_final.pdf
Still a lot of guess work involved in that research. And, even to the extent of DNA results showing sub-Saharan African DNA, many assumptions not supported by concrete evidence. That explains why I have doubts. Even Ancestry.com acknowledges that it cannot establish a definitive link due to gaps in family history, which, as I mentioned in my earlier post, isn't exactly shocking.
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Old 08-22-2015, 04:22 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
No, South Africans that live in the US are Africans, not African-Americans. Their US born and/or raised children would fit the African-American label.


The people that actually moved from England to the US are simply English. Any offsprings they give birth to or raise in the US are definitely English-American (American-English would be someone who's parents migrated from the US to England).

In England most people have no problem what-so-ever accepting the offspring of Caribbean/African/Indian people as British. That's what they are and they don't even feel the need to hyphenate their identity, they are just British.

Its obvious by looking at certain people that they may not be fully of British stock, but they are British though and that does makes sense.


That doesn't deny anything. If they are Americans born in Germany, so they are American-German (even though they are simply German, I don't think people over there hyphenate themselves). The same applies with the French and the Italian, although in Italy there is a tendency among ethnic Italians to not consider non-white Italians as Italians. I think this is more of an issue in northern Italy, but not sure in the south. Anyway, they would be American-Italians.

What does denies the heritage (in the USA) is blanketing African-Americans as black, when in fact many are mixed race.


There's no overlap because their English/German/Dutch ancestors migrated a long time ago to South Africa. They are simply South African and Africans. Too many generations born and raised there.


I don't know what this has to do with anything, a South African is, well, a South African. And the black ones actually originate from a diverse of tribes. Many others are not even black, but mixed race that over there are identified as coloureds. But at the end of the day, they are all (white, mixed, black, whatever) just South Africans.
Wouldn't that cause problems on the census, though? If the census is trying to calculate the number of Indians here, and they just call themselves British, isn't there a large number of Indian people that the census that are missing?

Wouldn't that mean my family isn't real Italians, and we are actually native Americans? You're saying that the generations we are born and raised here takes away my European heritage.
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Old 08-22-2015, 04:36 PM
 
Location: Katy,Texas
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Yes, it does lead to confusion in the census a little bit, but in the census they ask what country you are from and organize it like that, and most people don't lie on the census, if their family is 6th generation Indian though, they might consider themselves British or might not know their country of heritage as they wouldn't know, if their last name was English due to intermarrying. This is very uncommon though as 90% of the British immigrants came in the last 50 years or so from Nigeria, India, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Jamaica etc.
About you being considered Italian you would be considered American, as unless you spoke Italian at home, frequently visited Italy and lived in an all Italian neighborhood after the third generation you would be considered Americanized to the point of being an American. Nigerians in Britain tend to be older immigrants than Nigerians in America so many British Nigerians are British even though they have Nigerian last names that can be traced back to Lagos or something of the sort. This is also further emphasized if you are mixed so you look more British in features or have a British last name.
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